Nobody can appeal to Hitler and maintain any semblance of rationality.

Buh-bye!

Maybe you just ought to learn that.

What is happening in KS is unfair, I suppose.

She shames her ancestors.

-- Mal

so that makes it OK

Evil people can say insightful, useful, true and yes profound things. Good people can say naive, pointless, false and banal things. People on both sides who speak in public routinely, especially extemporaneously, are likely to have said many things on both sides of those coins. So what? This silly cartoonish one-dimensional view of negative public figures only ever saying wrong and foolish things and positive public figures never doing so is for children.

Yes when dealing with the masses it's best to keep things very simple and with no distractions like this (ironically, quite a decent paraphrase of one of the profound insights Hitler did indeed express) but that's allowing for the mean intelligence of crowds who can't separate the statement from the source.

the Red Meat crowd.

but comparing the statement to Planned Parenthood's behaviors isn't rational, let alone factual.

Context is just as important for many rational people. As PP isn't engaged in such behavior (while the anti-choice crowd is), her statement boils down to fear mongering and propaganda of the kind she just described with the Hitler quote.

Linking PP to racism to attack it is an old trick for birthers.

Many people, especially here, have criticized historical British imperial and colonial attitudes too, but is this statement then false or not worth consideration in historical context? I see the same sentiments on DU, less well expressed.

'Mr. Eden declared: "We English have had experience in ruling," then the only thing one can say is: "In ruling? In exploitation! In plundering!" What does experience in ruling mean, when in a country which, with 46,000,000 persons itself, is administering 40,000,000 square kilometers over the entire world...

...Where is this art of ruling, to say nothing of the art of leadership? It is only the unscrupulousness for robbery. And when this same man then says: "We have a fine instinct for idealism and material values." Yes indeed they have. They have destroyed idealism everywhere, and they have grabbed and taken possession of material worth and always grabbed and taken possession of it, too, by brutal force only. For in 300 years that nation has oppressed and yoked and subjected nation after nation, people after people, race after race.

If they were really such brilliant rulers, then they should now be able to leave after the Indian people have expressed their explicit desire that they do, and then to wait and see whether the Indians call them back again.'

The Indians have not done so so it was certainly insightful at the time, and since this is the prevailing DU opinion of colonialism, few would say it's not worth consideration.

I honestly don't know what quote she was referring to - newspaper accounts AND DU threads are gallingly and intentionally oblique. If it's the frequent simple lie propaganda bit you cite then it's a profound enough truth. Profundity does not necessitate originality of topic. Does it apply to PP? Well not from our POV no not at all. But from the viewpoint of one who is convinced killing an embryo kills a human soul, then (again to them, assuredly not me, to whom abortion is simply a routine elective procedure and the human soul a silly imaginary construct) all attempts to excuse such an action must by definition be oft-repeated lies and propaganda.

cause the specific quote is listed, as is her statement accusing PP of using Hitler's propaganda techniques.

Just click the link.

PP's activities are not a PoV issue. They are medical procedures which legally require careful documentation and regulation. Statistics and studies about who obtains abortions and why are readily available. Only one crowd makes an attempt to re-frame these procedures and data by sprinkling repeated falsehoods into the mix. This is why you see non-existent bullsh*t terms like "partial birth abortion" popping up again and again.

As for the profundity of the quote, it isn't a new concept that was pointed out by Hitler. Propaganda and it's use to control the masses has been around longer than when the Catholic Church coined the term in the 1600s. Hitler was specifically invoked for a reason.. and people's knee-jerk reaction to his mention should give you a clue as to why.

The legislator is doing exactly what Hitler describes in the quote and by using him as the source, she is attempting to link the horrors of Hitler's regime to a woman's health care provider (in addition to likely dog whistles for her base and busting out the common trope of PP=racist so often used by anti-choice ppl). That is why many people are pissed about the quote, even if they don't specifically spell it out like I did.

As they say on Always Sunny in Philadelphia, "it's the implication".

And again, profundity and originality are not synonyms. I see that trite Maya Angelou bromide dozens of times here; that has a legacy since at least biblical times, and nary a quibble. Just because a total bastard said something does not render it vapid or false

What constitutes the medical procedure is NOT.

The behaviors of both crowds are not subjective, either. One can objectively point to the anti-choice crowds history of reframing the debate in terms of emotionally-laden language and misinformation campaigns. The same cannot be said of Planned Parenthood. PP cannot legally DO what the anti-choice crowd does. They would lose their ability to practice medicine if they so grossly misrepresented clinical practices and patient data.

Subjective opinion does not mean something is objective reality.

This isn't so much about who she is citing as what she is doing- using propaganda to attack something she doesn't like. The who is secondary to what she herself did. The quote was a how-to for her followers on how to attack PP. She also used the quote to project the behavior of the anti-choice community onto Planned Parenthood. The fact that the anti-choice crowd repeatedly tries to link PP to racism and she is equating their behavior with frakin Hitler is the cyanide icing on the poison cake this crowd is trying to feed America.

I'm done discussing this unless you can stay on topic. Maya Angelou and colonialism have nothing to do with the conversation.

Is that there is a trove of 'insightful, useful, true and yes profound things' by people who aren't aren't evil murdering basturds to use. There is absolutely no excuse to normalize them. Period.

He was a mass murderer of epic proportion. People used to have sense enough to avoid referencing him in a positive manner.

is not an issue with contextual referencing of evil, its normalizing the idea that Hitler is someone who should be referenced as having something valuable to add to American political discourse.

I quoted him above on British imperialism. What exactly is in that quote that renders it valueless. The origin is not a part of the sentiment per se. It's either right or wrong, or I guess since it's an inductive situation it's either probably right or probably wrong.

and bring us pleasure, but we are not permitted by law to indulge because the vast majority of people are foolish idiots who don't know the meaning of the word "discernment." Social responsibility informs us that repeating Hitler's words and calling them wise is asking for a load of shit down the line.

It is about linking the evil person to an organization that does good. It is about trying to imply that PP is evil and appealing to the irrational ignorant followers to take action.

I care about the manipulation of the masses of ignorant followers, who unlike yourself are not rational. They will be the ones banging on your door in the late or night because your intellect is a threat.

It has happened many times. My wife's family personally witnessed the ignorant farmers killing those of intellect that threatened their leaders propaganda driven agenda.

Peace.

the most evil man in modern history because you like one of his sentences.

AND why is she listening to or reading his shit? School assignment? I don't think so.

I did some digging, and here is the quote,

“The receptivity of the masses is very limited, their intelligence is small, but their power of forgetting is enormous. In consequence of these facts, all effective propaganda must be limited to a very few points and must harp on these in slogans until the last member of the public understands what you want him to understand by your slogan”

it comes out of. However, in the face of Trump's racist campaigns, saying that something Hitler said is profound may not be the best thing for our nation, or for the people in the state of Kansas. I have been appalled as I've watched the white supremacists, neonazis and ku kluxers come out of the woodwork and bloom just like dried up flowers that are suddenly watered. I mean, these haters have been on the fringe for many years, decades. Oh they're active and dangerous, and have been, but they have been on the fringe. Now they are front and center and acting as if their racism, misogyny, homophobia, transphobia, xenophobia and general desire to take the country back to the fifties so it can be 'great' (white) again is somehow normal.

In that context, her comment was very ill advised, and I'm sure she will catch plenty of flack now, and that it will be used against her should she run for reelection. Many of these Republicans are walking this fine line...how much meat to throw to the base without crossing that line and being perceived as insane...

or intelligent.

Does not deserve any attn or re-quoting and there the KS Repug is wrong

I fail to see the comparison myself. I must be obtuse.

There are generation of little Nazis growing up in Kansas.

"Mit verrückten Haaren."

Who could disagree with that?

Oh, das verrückt Haare!

Horrifying as it is to contemplate, you could be right--and here's my response:

What the hell is the matter with Kansas??

I doubt it.

Because she has no idea who Mengele is.


The name "Hitler" is just a symbol to her for some vaguely most horrible things.... and she wants to link Planned Parenthood with that buzz word.

In that Holocaust kinda way.

in order to get inspired? Sick woman! Sounds like someone else I've heard about who keeps a book of Hitler speeches beside his bed. Is her house filled with John Wayne Gacy prints? Kansas has some big problems, from their governor on down the line.

1. She was comparing the quotation to the tactics of Planned Parenthood. Stupid, I know, but she claims not to agree with Hitler. (Somehow I doubt this--she IS a Repug after all, but that's her claim to justification in this case.)

2. Yes, she is hare-brained. But Kansas legislators, state and national, are all simpletons. I don't know a person who disagrees with that, but then I don't hang around with any Repugs, so there it is.

3. GOOD NEWS: She's not running for re-election. BAD NEWS: She'll probably be replaced by another Repug, and they're all just as dim-witted.

Here's the link, http://abovethelaw.com/2016/10/who-should-get-the-blame-for-the-now-infamous-dred-scott-citation/

Is it really coincidental that two folks representing Kansas in the same week rely on rather tarnished authorities, both of which are racist in origin? Or is it more likely that these tarnished authorities are not tarnished in Kansas but rather approved?

That's pretty stupid of her.

These people are accustomed to hearing their leader speak in condescending and incendiary tones. Trump's entire run has been eerily reminiscent of Hitler's rise to power in the early 30s, other than the night of the long knives and the Reichstag fire (but similar items are surely on the table for him if not on his agenda).

I'm astounded how unaware baby boomers especially seem to be of these similarities and how easily they fall for such base appeals that have Hitler and Mussolini written all over them. It's funny, you don't see many of their parents' generation falling for this shit.

that's WAY better.

Fine, she thinks they're both evil. But men, women and children died in the Holocaust, some of them my relatives, and it's jaw-droppingly offensive to confllate an org involved in providing birth control, reproductive care and yes, voluntary abortion to people who want and need them, with the Nazis.

Hell, it was jaw-droppingly offensive when PETA drew a moral equivalence between Holocaust victims and turkeys at thanksgiving. Although I have no doubt some more black-and-white Animal Rights people thought the comparison was spot on.

I saw a bumper sticker not that long ago that said "if abortion is murder, then oral sex is cannibalism". Yes, that's a bit of an excessively hyperbolic extrapolation, although maybe not really by all that much when you're dealing with a mindset that has declared, by fiat and with zero objective basis, that an egg a second after fertilization is the exact same thing - and should be considered as such, by the law - as a baby.

But yes, the quote is being taken out of context. Still, maybe given who the GOP nominee is, people can be forgiven for thinking there are Republicans running around everywhere with warm fee-fees for Hitler.

can I get a coffee mug with the quote on it?

here in the UK our Tory Home Secretary announced a policy that was taken from Chapter 2 of Mein Kampf.

Look; I hate repugs as much as the next guy/girl. Trump? Hate. Reagan? Hate. GW? Hate hate hate. But seriously! "Quoting Hitler"? This lady (Peggy Mast) is trying to slander Planned Parenthood by claiming they are using "Hitler-ian" propaganda techniques to spread their message. She is not quoting Hitler in an admiring way or otherwise aligning herself to any Nazi philosophy at all. Read the article, people. Like most Republicans, she is terrible and clumsy trying to get a point across. Probably has low language skills, like many Republicans.

At worst, guilty of violating Godwin's law.

So many knee jerks in this thread...

Yeah, knee jerk responses. I posted the above mini rant 2-4 days ago and have been waiting for someone to even respond to it. Instead just more "Repugs like Hitler!!!" posts. Sad.

Or simply do not bother to actually read the posts.

try to support some point I'm trying to make!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! PERIOD!

It is obvious I had to use it to quote the woman. I was of course saying in my personal life I would not use it.

Why would you want to twist what I was obviously trying to say?

.....Ol' Adolf had such great ideas.




Like Bill Maher said..... it's no longer democrat vs republican.... it's reality vs alternate reality that doesn't exist.

Fuck you, Ms. Mast!

She meant to say a quote from Trump. It is hard to tell them apart at times, you know.

Right wing talk radio or what the republican party has done for the past 50 years?

"“The receptivity of the masses is very limited, their intelligence is small, but their power of forgetting is enormous. In consequence of these facts, all effective propaganda must be limited to a very few points and must harp on these in slogans until the last member of the public understands what you want him to understand by your slogan,” Hitler said in the quotation.

Hard for me to see a difference.

No attempt to hide her "considered" opinion-- just blurts it right out

She was referencing:

“The receptivity of the masses is very limited, their intelligence is small, but their power of forgetting is enormous. In consequence of these facts, all effective propaganda must be limited to a very few points and must harp on these in slogans until the last member of the public understands what you want him to understand by your slogan,” Hitler said in the quotation.

It is in the article. Ironically, the exact thing she was talking about is what, for the most part, this post is guilty of. I am not saying she is right about Planned Parenthood, but what this graphic and post implied is obviously false.

Whatever though, as Hitler said...it hasnt changed.

WATCH: Trump fans shout Nazi-era ‘lying press’ insult at media during rally

http://www.rawstory.com/2016/10/watch-trump-fans-shout-nazi-era-lying-press-insult-at-media-during-rally/

just like all the hateful racist assholes do when they get caught saying and doing what they KNOW is so wrong.
Hitler did the same thing: he blew his hate-filled, power-hungry brains out of his skull, and then they burned them.

It gets me that these jackasses are so brazen with their Hitler rhetoric, when Nazis were so un-American that US soldiers died to make sure he failed and was killed.

Boneheads. Go form your own country on someone else's dime.

Govern...uh... I mean dictator"