It's always instructive to me who the MSM pushes. You get of hint of who they consider non-threatening.

Biden/Klobuchar 2020 would be a real winner.

What is it about Biden that excites you?

in America to be President.

I think that's why Obama first chose him and that's something we're desperately missing right now...

I suppose. I have not been thrilled with the U.S. foreign policy for several decades now. I think that has something to do with our obscene military budget.

American foreign policy has been a disaster for decade and based on economic rather than human rights. We sanction countries that nationalize oil production rather than Saudi Arabia. We targetted Iraq instead in the "war on terror".

We desperately need something different than the status quo.


US weapons were transferred to Al Qaeda backed militants by Saudi Arabia & UAE. We can blame several Presidents for that not just Trump.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2019/02/saudi-arabia-uae-gave-weapons-al-qaeda-linked-groups-cnn-190205055102300.html

https://www.pbs.org/video/bitter-rivals-iran-and-saudi-arabia-pqsnhk/

Obama also chose Biden in order to be able to get things through legislatively. If you like anything from the first two years of the Obama Presidency, thank Joe Biden. He did his time, and still knows way more than anybody else who's warmed a Senate seat for about a third of a term before deciding that they were ready to take on the big job.

while that's considered a negative to some that our Democratic Congresspersons have friends who have an "R" after their name, it is the way things get done, and Joe Biden is from that era.

We need everything we can get to try to undo the extreme damage of the Trump administration, our nation depends on it.

I'm with you on Klobuchar--but not Joe Biden. For me it's Bernie then Elizabeth then Klobuchar. My dream ticket would be Bernie and Elizabeth--in either order. I'm 64 years old now and can't wait for slow centrist change. I agree with other posters that we do have a big talented field, but I want to scrutinize some of the moderates . . . make sure they're genuine. I'm not convinced with at least a couple of them, including slow Joe.

Lol, I don't know what exactly those images mean, but they're funny as hell!

which happen to be the highest polling issues of the day. Their popularity means they constitute the center of the political spectrum, NOT the far left. I listen to all the new voices calling for change and I hear Bernie talking. A RECORD counts.

Is somehow going to usher in quick change?

How exactly?

He already has. Our party is already seriously discussing $15.00 minimum wage and universal health coverage just two years after he put those issues front and center. Now AOC and others are talking about making the billionaires start paying more--like they should've been for the past half century at least.

....was being discussed way back during FDR's administration - John Dingell Sr. first introduced it in 1943. The ACA, passed back in 2010 (almost nine years ago) would have been a big step toward it had the Democrats retained control of the House.

Similar story behind the minimum wage, raising it has been discussed for years and years.

They didn't suddenly become "front and center" just two years ago.

Universal health coverage has been under discussion for decades--but there has been no unified message. Yes, individual legislators have talked about it here and there, but no one, until Bernie, made it a central message. I've been following politics for over 40 years and I don't remember any other politician driving home those messages like Bernie did two years ago. If they had, we'd already had it by now. Instead, the leaders of our party have continually wanted to go slow on that front. Obama did have one heck of a fight getting the ACA passed, and I'll always praise him for doing that--but I don't recall him ever talking about universal coverage. He didn't even put it on the table.

Similar story behind the minimum wage. I don't recall our Senators and congressmen putting out that message front and center. If so, their messages were lost in the mix. I know you're pretty handy with the links and videos--I'm not, sorry. So, please feel free to add links showing these leaders of our party putting that issue front and center in the manner Bernie did.

Our party has had control of the House and Senate many times after the "Reagan Revolution" and so we had many opportunities to keep the Minimum Wage up with the cost of living--but that simply was not a priority in our party. After Citizens United that situation got even worse. That is why there is such an outpouring of enthusiasm for both of those issues now.

We can find spot examples of Congressmen and Senators supporting those issues all through those years, and I can even think of some of the ones who would've done that--Kucinich readily comes to mind. But there has not been a genuine push for them, or they would've already happened.

Bernie is not the first person to talk about either thing. He didn't invent them. The timing is simply right at this point.

You've associated correlation with causation.

I've never said Bernie was the first to talk about those issues. I did say he was the first in my memory to make those issues central themes. Please give me examples of our Democratic leadership pushing those issues since the 1990s. Give me names.

but I think that ticket would lose.

Biden is real old school and represents corporate dems. He will never be president. Might as well have a Biden/Tim Caine ticket for the same old same old.

where progressives would not.

...the most important thing in politics is not philosophy, it's math. Biden would be just fine. This election is a "must win". Democrats can't just make a point and get them next time. If we don't win this time, there may not be a next time.

You can have the best ideas in the world, but if you don't win, it doesn't mean shit.

Winning the election is another.

So, Martin Luther King should've just stayed quiet, you know, because we didn't have the numbers. These idealists--always with their heads in the clouds . . .

As for ideas not meaning shit if you don't win--hey, unless you raise the issue you're never gonna get shit!

...did MLK run for something?

Math only counts in elections.

William Jennings Bryan had a lot of good ideas. How did that work out for him?

The point is that you have to have the ideas and push for them. Math counts yes, but if you don't even try you'll never get there. History is full of examples of failed initiatives but you have to put them out there first if you have any hope of ever getting there.

when the other side wins and their ideas are contrary to yours, there's not much you can do.

I'm a union guy. The Supreme court just made the whole country "right to work" in the public sector. If Hillary had won, that would never had happened. That law will not change back in my lifetime, if ever. 5 to 4 vote. Math. All 5 anti-union votes were appointed by Republicans, including the swing vote by Trump. Math.

The right to organize into a union and have everybody play by the same rules is a great idea. It was practiced in this country for decades. Some greedy sons of bitches have a different idea. Here's what I learned again. The most votes win. The winner's ideas prevail.

Figure out how our side can win and we can argue about ideas in the winner's circle.

The loser's bracket sucks.

In your view you never bring up an issue and fight for it unless you're guaranteed a win? That's a pretty cynical and fatalistic view. No wonder our side has lost so much ground on wages and other economic issues . . . an interesting philosophy.

...but winning an election is the ability to build a majority coalition. If some positions need to be modified (hence, a platform) in order to gain that majority, that's the art of winning political contests.

If Biden can win us over the 3% or 4% needed to guarantee victory, that's more important to me than getting a candidate who I agree with 100% of the time and losing.

The final election is a binary choice. The most electoral votes wins.

Here's some pretty shocking news for ya--given your philosophy--Bernie lost the primary two years ago, but guess who's central ideas are being debated in our party right now? Seems I recall his opponent talking about pie in the sky . . .

That's my winner winner chicken dinner ticket and I'm sticking to it!! But the Dems have such a strong deep field, 2020 is going to be MAGA for realsies this time!!!

Will hold my nose on Gillibrand, Tulsi, and Bernie.

Remember when the bankrtupcy laws were changed so that ordinary Americans could no longer include medical bills in their bankruptcies? Once you got a medical bill, there was no way out, after that. That was Joe Biden's law.

He has a very cozy relationship with big business because his state, Delaware, is the main state in the U.S. where corporations choose to file their corporate papers, because the state is so friendly to corporations tax-wise. So Biden was beholden to them and their big donations. You'd be surprised just how many corporations are incorporated in Delaware.

Then there is his age. He's not too old to serve now, IMO. But in four years, he'll be about 86. No matter how healthy you are, the 80s is the decade where your mind and body begin to fail significantly.

I like him and think he'd be a fine President. He will not push for anything progressive, though, if that's what you want. Healthcare for all, rolling back tax cuts for corporations, etc. He's a moderate.

He WOULD be good for compromise, bipartisanship, and optimism, which the country could use now more than ever.

they can never escape from. It was a "yuge" giveaway to banks and I just can't find it in myself to forgive nor forget who voted for it.

I was shocked that a Democrat would push that through. It was so unfair. Families with hundreds of thousands of medical bills, with no hope of paying it back, but now no hope of getting out from under it. It wasn't like debt to get a lot of funsy electronics that they don't want to pay for. It was so unfair.

because businesses have many more rights than we the people these days.

Fortunately, I was long out of school, but it made it easier to get a student loan after that.

How many home mortgages would lenders make if they couldn't foreclose on a home? Damned few.

Maybe they made the student loans too easy to get, surely there were all kinds of people borrowing money for educations that could not realistically generate income from a career to effectively pay back those loans. Nobody was holding a gun to the borrowers' heads forcing them to sign the papers to get the loans.

Joe Biden has what it takes to fix the mess that is Trumpian in size and severity.

are never bipartisan, and are the sole owned party of the 1%. We need the numbers and the candidates to overcome their obstructionism, not play compromise with extortionists and petty fear mongers who only want government to dominate those who disagree with their fascist agenda. Our party is headed there but the DLC , corporatist Wall streeters must get in line, not the head the line. Our very planet and our lives depend on it.

I agree completely. The Gopers stopped compromising several decades ago. Their starting point on nearly issue is the extreme far right. Why are we still playing that game?

and billionaires don't like. eom

From Wikipedia

2008 Democratic presidential primaries:

Excluding penalized contests, only primary and caucuses votes:

Barack Obama – 16,706,853
Hillary Clinton – 16,239,821
John Edwards – 742,010
Bill Richardson – 89,054
Uncommitted – 82,660
Dennis Kucinich – 68,482
Joe Biden – 64,041
Mike Gravel – 27,662
Christopher Dodd – 25,300
Others – 22,556

like to say I’m for Biden and would be if he was 15 years younger. As a person in my 60’s, I’m sorry, but I want someone younger than him.

I suggest everyone sit back and listen for a while before jumping on any particular bandwagon. It' a broad field, and everyone deserves to be heard at this point. That's Democratic democracy in action.

is the same as saying he has the highest name recognition.

the democrats are going to blow up 2020 unless they get their message on point.
stop with all the wanna be people dnc and dems need to work on 1 message, 1 person.
Warren is screwed, betto?, maybe kamela, but choose and stop the in-fighting.
we are only giving them the high ground, they are setting the tone.

All the bull about my way is better.. we all have the same cause.




GET RID of THE REPUGS/TRUMP
only way stop the in-fighting.

Sorry, I disagree with you. This is the time we need to be hashing out these issues. If not now, when? The Prexy election is still two years off--the media's obsession with the issue notwithstanding. When are we allowed to debate the direction of our party in your view?

And, we must follow the process, not assume in advance.