shows that would knock their socks off.

My sentiments exactly. Thanks for the perspective.

How many times are we going to make fun of ol' Grandpa for falling in the well?



This picture is from the original series, with Tommy Rettig as Jeff. In reruns, the series is called "Jeff's Collie" to avoid copyright issues.

https://www.pinterest.co.uk/cindylsuits/lassie/

There is going to be a huge body of shockingly sexist shows from the 20th century.

We can see old movies today that have horribly racist moments that are played as innocent comedy. It's shocking because we judge it by current standards but what they show is the accepted standards of the day.

Instead of being shocked be grateful that we have progressed beyond that period.

Movies and TV are truly time machines.
Society changes. Movie reels don't.

Obviously, the cultural values of society has changed over the past 30 years.

The first gay, cross-dressing dad (not trans), first woman kissing woman scene. It showed two loving moms raising a son with one mom's ex-husband in a cooperative and supportive way; a son tracking down his burlesque show dad to invite him to his wedding, with his wife reminding him that his cross-dressing dad had been there for him his entire childhood.

Friends was way ahead if its time and likely the show that most influenced advancement of gay rights.

Joey was a creep with women but his friends did censor him for that.

Friends not always funny but characters did have loving relationships. Strong liberal themes.

And Ross was a clingy, manipulative parasite.

Joey, while we're at it, was a minimally restrained sexual predator for most of the series' run.


Not a fan, never was.

I've been rewatching Brooklyn 99, which is getting syndicated on TBS, and the amount of workplace "sexual harassment" is just dialed to eleven.

The thing is that these shows aren't meant to be real life. They're reflections AND they're comedy. And comedy isn't meant to always be safe. It's always going to do things that are uncomfortable because it reflects the reality.

... as MASH re-runs were playing on the TV. Back in the 70s, Alan Alda was seen as a wonderful man based on his characterization of Hawkeye Pierce; many more-or-less enlightened people (especially female) considered him a beau ideal. But the character is smart-mouth and sexist (he is the one who invented "Hot Lips" as Major Houlihan's nickname, after all). I doubt he would be so dreamboaty (is there such a word?) now.

-- Mal

because she was married to her rapist. I know they were highlighting the attitudes of the day and contributed to its change in its small way, but it was still painful.

Also painful to watch, original "Scooby Doo" with my boys when they were small. Scooby and Shaggy turning "Oriental" was just ugly, but was acceptable when I was young.

Her character is protrayed as somebody they sort of tease and make fun of, it's true. But the way she got the name "Hot Lips" was during her make-out session with her boyfriend, and she says "Kiss my Hot Lips, Frank." That was broadcast all over the MASH encampment and everyone heard it on the loudspeaker. This was part of the overall comedy, not a point of sexist or sexual bullying.

If you remember the scene (also in the original movie) where the men were all sitting outside the shower tent when the women were inside taking showers, and they raised the tent up while the women were naked. The men were all clapping and cheering while the women were scrambling to cover themselves. It was funny but also humiliating for the women, and yes that was borderline bullying I'd say. It's a scene that probably wouldn't be used now because women think it's creepy.

... I never saw the movie, but I did read the book. My recollection is that Hawkeye gave her the name, but it could well be faulty after 40-odd years.

-- Mal

...and was to settle a bet as to whether "the carpet matched the drapes." (Yes, the film was intentionally crude and shocking, in accordance with the books. Ironically, the author of those books hated the television series, because he considered it "liberal" and "anti-American." )

by the blatant sexism. It was really over the top!

had a higher rank than they did...but I just loved the robot, and the ship, and the space theme, so I put up with the uncomfortable moments and downplayed them in order to enjoy the show.

But I recently saw a few episodes, and it was even worse than I remembered. There was this scene where they had to arm themselves to go after some kind of enemy. The armed party consisted of the captain, Don, and 12-year-old Will. So the mother says that she should go. The captain says, oh, but we only need three to go. She says, "but I'm perfectly capable of handling the situation and the weapons".

So he replies, in the most condescending tone "I know you are, Honey, but we only need three. If we needed more you would come". And off they went, Will looking completely ridiculous carrying a weapon which was almost bigger than him. I turned it off then and will not watch it ever again.

I remember that if the two adult males went of on a mission, Will was left in charge.

I hated Will.

Thank goodness there was Uhura. She had a supporting role, but I knew I'd never had to endure her becoming hysterical or fainting. She was intelligent, and capable. Once, the equipment in her station failed, and SHE was the one fixing it. AWESOME! I remember Spock standing next to her and telling her he couldn't think of anyone whio'd be better qualified to fix the problem. I was always so proud of her.

where Will was condescendingly explaining to Penny why she couldn’t help find the amazingly bizarre “Dr. Smith”. Not a job for females...

And Judy was always in eminent danger of space rape.

for Judy and Penny it was to be stupid and in danger.

... and I was always annoyed that it was never clear if Uhura or Sulu was senior. In some episodes, it seemed she was, but in others he seemed to be. I'm sure the studio would have rebelled at the idea of a woman being a senior officer, since they tossed "Number One" from the cast after the pilot.

As David Gerrold pointed out in his book about the series, by the third season the primary worry of scriptwriters was "how to get rid of the crew." In one episode, that resulted in Uhura being turned into a DnD die before the teaser was over.

-- Mal

... I wasn't too interested in sexism at age 12.

-- Mal

If you do watch with a critical but forgiving eye you can appreciate the arc of television’s slow rise toward equality, a rise far from over. They grappled with things as they could over time, gaining and losing ground, sometimes pandering, sometimes pushing boundaries, sometimes succeeding and sometimes failing.

MASH was sexist but also presented nurses as tough, smart, sexually forward and powerful. The whole point of Friends was that they were really, really bad at relationships, and the laughter was cringy, but they made history with Ellen. Star Trek put women in skimpy clothes and made damsels of them but had the first interracial kiss. Archie Bunker brought bigotry into the open as a thing to mock but Edith (whom I adore so don’t say a word against my Edith) and certainly Gloria were ditzy. Laugh-In was ground-breaking but the girls were either eye candy or old bags.

They struggled. They had been raised by wolves but were slightly better wolves and slowly struggle to get better over time. Don’t fall prey to letting the perfect be the enemy of the good, as we Dems too often do. No one is perfect and good can be damaged to the point of retreating. Then real evil wins.

'They had been raised by wolves but were slightly better wolves and slowly struggle to get better over time. Don’t fall prey to letting the perfect be the enemy of the good.'

also had the trans character that Archie befriended as a cabby. That character was murdered. Prime time "family" tv. Old shows are hard to watch since tv has always been more "of the time" than movies. Simply my opinion though.

I always preferred to watch something else.

On edit - I recall the show was criticized for its lack of diversity even back then.

or even shows and books I liked in my 20s and 30s, even 40s (will be 78 in a week)

Of course, I still enjoy watching some because they bring back memories of my earlier self. Eg, Ozzie and Harriet.

What are they being taught at school if they don't even have a basic understanding of how the world has been changing?

There's a great YouTube video called The Adorkable Misogynist that gives plenty of painful examples.

Things haven't changed much after all.

BBT is very cringey when it comes to sexism. The female characters are terrible.

like having a black woman being a bridge officer at a time when most TV and movies had black women as "the help", it did dress the women up in tiny skirts and they had an episode where women couldn't be starship captains, so a woman switched bodies with Kirk and took over the Enterprise and was driven insane by the responsibility (Janice Lester? forget the episode title)

It was horrible that they played it that way, though they have done well with female officers since - Janeway and the current ones on Discovery.

THere's no way in hell a non trust fund baby can afford that NYC apartment in their 20s.