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Related: Culture Forums, Support ForumsThe thread about grammar errors got me thinking.
Or should it be, "The thread about grammatical errors has gotten me thinking." Or maybe, "The thread about grammatical errors has me thinking."
I'm an autodidact when it comes to writing beyond dry research papers. The ability that I have to express myself in my stories and forums like this came through observation of others, including all of you out there. The last formal training I had in grammar was in the 8th grade and that held my interest about as well as watching paint dry, earning me a 'D' for the course. Since then I've taken about six college level English courses and I've aced them all. Those classes were all about writing and I only had a professor correct me on grammar one time and that was about my use of commas, or lack thereof which you may notice at some point in this post. But...
I know my grammar is not perfect. The reason I know that is that I'm regularly learning about grammar from the books that I read and the stuff that I read on the internet. After a few months, I may go back to something that I've written maybe a year ago and I will find errors in grammar. Why did those professors let me slide? Did they not know any better themselves? I doubt that. But...
I'm reading a book right now by a guy who has a Ph.D. Yet I notice from time to time that he has a tendency to switch tenses when he shouldn't which is pretty much an 8th grade grammar mistake. You'd think that whoever edited the book would have caught that. You'd think he would know better. I find mistakes like that in books frequently and I'm not just talking about typos. A professor once told me that writing is the most important intellectual activity that you will engage in. I'd think for that reason that people who were college educated would be flawless with their grammar. Maybe their professors let them slide a little, too.
As a wannabe writer I take this seriously, at least with my own writing because I want to be a better writer. When I was kicking around going back to school I was thinking of majoring in English again. I was considering taking a developmental course on grammar even though I've passed English courses at the junior level. I want to have a solid understanding of the building blocks of writing. Right now I don't feel like I do. Believe it or not, I have no idea how to diagram sentences. I guess I'm kind of like a musician who doesn't know how to read music. Then again, I suppose a lot of them have been successful.
I don't know if I will ever be a successful writer, but I do know that right now I'm already a better writer than some people with a lot more education than me. I don't think that should be. I've heard it said that the story is most important. If you don't have a story you've got nothing, no matter your ability. But I think you should also be able to convey it clearly and precisely.
Robb
(39,665 posts)If you want to get good at something, you do it correctly, over and over. For writing there's no substitute for having written a lot.
Writing on deadline is even better. You do one draft, and it's correct the first time. And you do it several times a day, five days a week. In a year you won't recognize what you used to write. The best, most accurate communicators I know had crap jobs for small/mid-sized newspapers at some point in their careers -- three five-paragraph stories per day by 4 p.m., every day.
It's also a great place to work under a good editor, which means s/he has a command of grammar you can only imagine at, and is utterly without mercy. You will write better to avoid the chopping block, and you will learn there is nothing inherently "special" about the words you put to page -- unless they're empirically good.
I doubt I'm going to be able to get a job writing professionally anytime soon, but that's what I wish I could do.
CaliforniaPeggy
(149,650 posts)And your stories are compelling.
Keep on keepin' on!
I'm sure your writing will evolve; I know my poetry has. Of course, poetry is a whole 'nother kettle of fish...but evolve it does. I have much to learn too, but I am enjoying doing that. Some days I feel the strength of my words, and I'll bet you do too.
Tobin S.
(10,418 posts)Maybe I should look at it that way...sort of like a journey. You know that old saying, it's not the destination...
I've had a couple of beers and a good conversation with an old friend today. My imagination is working. Maybe I'll have a little story for you all this evening.
CaliforniaPeggy
(149,650 posts)You never know what will get your imagination working. Sometimes I find a piece of music will do it...Conversations definitely do it.
elleng
(131,006 posts)"a whole 'nother kettle of fish!!!"
CaliforniaPeggy
(149,650 posts)elleng
(131,006 posts)but wtf's a 'nother???'
CaliforniaPeggy
(149,650 posts)Sorry for the thread-jack, my dear Tobin!
Tobin S.
(10,418 posts)EFerrari
(163,986 posts)The same considerations go into a sonnet or a bit of free verse as go into an essay or a piece of fiction. Poetry tends to demand more economy but budgeting is a factor no matter what form you are working in.
EFerrari
(163,986 posts)if you study poetics and not just grammar, imo, and it will be more fun. That gives you an array of filters to see your work through -- timing, emphasis, metaphor, sound as well as grammar. The real value of grammar is when you make it do what you want, after all, not if you are correct in some academic sense although it is nice to feel as though you know what you're doing formally.
elleng
(131,006 posts)I began to think.'
HAPPY to hear it, Tobin!
P.S., Much to my/our chagrin, 7th Grade English teacher, Mrs. Miner, taught us DIAGRAMMING!!! Early in the year we thought she was a tyrant but, as I recall, we ended up liking, or at least, admiring her. (Will check with my classmates later this year, as we've got a high school graduation reunion coming up in September.)
AND, a few years ago I noticed, and I think that others did, too, that the NYTimes was messing up, grammar and spelling-wise. It was ASTONISHING at the time, but this was after their decline had begun, after What's her Name shamed them so with her miserable Iraq war/Bush admin coverage; they just couldn't/can't afford to maintain their former high standards, I guess.
hlthe2b
(102,309 posts)Or should it be, "The thread about grammatical errors has gotten me thinking." Or maybe, "The thread about grammatical errors has me thinking."
Which should it be?
Tobin S.
(10,418 posts)In England it's the second one. In American university it's the third.
Really, I don't know. They might all be correct depending on the tone you want to set for your essay or DU post. Maybe you can tell me.
hlthe2b
(102,309 posts)I've not seen grammar used as an adjective, although grammar-less certainly could. So I think the first is technically incorrect but doubt too many Americans would collapse in horror after hearing it.
The second seems most correct to me--seeing it in writing, but like most people, I don't always speak as I write (and I certainly don't always write with grammatical precision)....
I would probably say it as the third choice.