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Tobin S.

(10,418 posts)
Sat Apr 28, 2012, 02:32 PM Apr 2012

The thread about grammar errors got me thinking.

Or should it be, "The thread about grammatical errors has gotten me thinking." Or maybe, "The thread about grammatical errors has me thinking."

I'm an autodidact when it comes to writing beyond dry research papers. The ability that I have to express myself in my stories and forums like this came through observation of others, including all of you out there. The last formal training I had in grammar was in the 8th grade and that held my interest about as well as watching paint dry, earning me a 'D' for the course. Since then I've taken about six college level English courses and I've aced them all. Those classes were all about writing and I only had a professor correct me on grammar one time and that was about my use of commas, or lack thereof which you may notice at some point in this post. But...

I know my grammar is not perfect. The reason I know that is that I'm regularly learning about grammar from the books that I read and the stuff that I read on the internet. After a few months, I may go back to something that I've written maybe a year ago and I will find errors in grammar. Why did those professors let me slide? Did they not know any better themselves? I doubt that. But...

I'm reading a book right now by a guy who has a Ph.D. Yet I notice from time to time that he has a tendency to switch tenses when he shouldn't which is pretty much an 8th grade grammar mistake. You'd think that whoever edited the book would have caught that. You'd think he would know better. I find mistakes like that in books frequently and I'm not just talking about typos. A professor once told me that writing is the most important intellectual activity that you will engage in. I'd think for that reason that people who were college educated would be flawless with their grammar. Maybe their professors let them slide a little, too.

As a wannabe writer I take this seriously, at least with my own writing because I want to be a better writer. When I was kicking around going back to school I was thinking of majoring in English again. I was considering taking a developmental course on grammar even though I've passed English courses at the junior level. I want to have a solid understanding of the building blocks of writing. Right now I don't feel like I do. Believe it or not, I have no idea how to diagram sentences. I guess I'm kind of like a musician who doesn't know how to read music. Then again, I suppose a lot of them have been successful.

I don't know if I will ever be a successful writer, but I do know that right now I'm already a better writer than some people with a lot more education than me. I don't think that should be. I've heard it said that the story is most important. If you don't have a story you've got nothing, no matter your ability. But I think you should also be able to convey it clearly and precisely.

16 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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The thread about grammar errors got me thinking. (Original Post) Tobin S. Apr 2012 OP
As good as school is for writing, and it is good, work is even better. Robb Apr 2012 #1
10-4 Robb Tobin S. Apr 2012 #2
Your grammar is damn good, my dear Tobin. CaliforniaPeggy Apr 2012 #3
Thanks, Peggy. Tobin S. Apr 2012 #4
I would love that! CaliforniaPeggy Apr 2012 #5
OH, CalPeg, elleng Apr 2012 #8
Well, it IS, my dear elleng! CaliforniaPeggy Apr 2012 #9
It is indeed 'another kettle of fish,' elleng Apr 2012 #10
*I* felt like being colloquial! So there! CaliforniaPeggy Apr 2012 #11
No problem. Thread-jack away. Tobin S. Apr 2012 #14
Actually, fish tend to be fish no matter where you try to collect them. EFerrari Apr 2012 #16
You'll get a richer return on your time investment EFerrari Apr 2012 #6
'Due to the thread about grammar errors, elleng Apr 2012 #7
So..... which is it? Don't keep us guessing....(wink) hlthe2b Apr 2012 #12
In trucker speak it's the first one Tobin S. Apr 2012 #13
No expert here, but your explanation sounds about right... hlthe2b Apr 2012 #15

Robb

(39,665 posts)
1. As good as school is for writing, and it is good, work is even better.
Sat Apr 28, 2012, 02:41 PM
Apr 2012

If you want to get good at something, you do it correctly, over and over. For writing there's no substitute for having written a lot.

Writing on deadline is even better. You do one draft, and it's correct the first time. And you do it several times a day, five days a week. In a year you won't recognize what you used to write. The best, most accurate communicators I know had crap jobs for small/mid-sized newspapers at some point in their careers -- three five-paragraph stories per day by 4 p.m., every day.

It's also a great place to work under a good editor, which means s/he has a command of grammar you can only imagine at, and is utterly without mercy. You will write better to avoid the chopping block, and you will learn there is nothing inherently "special" about the words you put to page -- unless they're empirically good.

Tobin S.

(10,418 posts)
2. 10-4 Robb
Sat Apr 28, 2012, 02:57 PM
Apr 2012

I doubt I'm going to be able to get a job writing professionally anytime soon, but that's what I wish I could do.

CaliforniaPeggy

(149,650 posts)
3. Your grammar is damn good, my dear Tobin.
Sat Apr 28, 2012, 04:00 PM
Apr 2012

And your stories are compelling.

Keep on keepin' on!

I'm sure your writing will evolve; I know my poetry has. Of course, poetry is a whole 'nother kettle of fish...but evolve it does. I have much to learn too, but I am enjoying doing that. Some days I feel the strength of my words, and I'll bet you do too.

Tobin S.

(10,418 posts)
4. Thanks, Peggy.
Sat Apr 28, 2012, 04:17 PM
Apr 2012

Maybe I should look at it that way...sort of like a journey. You know that old saying, it's not the destination...

I've had a couple of beers and a good conversation with an old friend today. My imagination is working. Maybe I'll have a little story for you all this evening.

CaliforniaPeggy

(149,650 posts)
5. I would love that!
Sat Apr 28, 2012, 04:20 PM
Apr 2012

You never know what will get your imagination working. Sometimes I find a piece of music will do it...Conversations definitely do it.

EFerrari

(163,986 posts)
16. Actually, fish tend to be fish no matter where you try to collect them.
Sun Apr 29, 2012, 03:19 AM
Apr 2012

The same considerations go into a sonnet or a bit of free verse as go into an essay or a piece of fiction. Poetry tends to demand more economy but budgeting is a factor no matter what form you are working in.

EFerrari

(163,986 posts)
6. You'll get a richer return on your time investment
Sat Apr 28, 2012, 04:39 PM
Apr 2012

if you study poetics and not just grammar, imo, and it will be more fun. That gives you an array of filters to see your work through -- timing, emphasis, metaphor, sound as well as grammar. The real value of grammar is when you make it do what you want, after all, not if you are correct in some academic sense although it is nice to feel as though you know what you're doing formally.






elleng

(131,006 posts)
7. 'Due to the thread about grammar errors,
Sat Apr 28, 2012, 04:43 PM
Apr 2012

I began to think.'

HAPPY to hear it, Tobin!


P.S., Much to my/our chagrin, 7th Grade English teacher, Mrs. Miner, taught us DIAGRAMMING!!! Early in the year we thought she was a tyrant but, as I recall, we ended up liking, or at least, admiring her. (Will check with my classmates later this year, as we've got a high school graduation reunion coming up in September.)

AND, a few years ago I noticed, and I think that others did, too, that the NYTimes was messing up, grammar and spelling-wise. It was ASTONISHING at the time, but this was after their decline had begun, after What's her Name shamed them so with her miserable Iraq war/Bush admin coverage; they just couldn't/can't afford to maintain their former high standards, I guess.

hlthe2b

(102,309 posts)
12. So..... which is it? Don't keep us guessing....(wink)
Sat Apr 28, 2012, 05:30 PM
Apr 2012
The thread about grammar errors got me thinking.
Or should it be, "The thread about grammatical errors has gotten me thinking." Or maybe, "The thread about grammatical errors has me thinking."


Which should it be?

Tobin S.

(10,418 posts)
13. In trucker speak it's the first one
Sat Apr 28, 2012, 06:03 PM
Apr 2012

In England it's the second one. In American university it's the third.

Really, I don't know. They might all be correct depending on the tone you want to set for your essay or DU post. Maybe you can tell me.

hlthe2b

(102,309 posts)
15. No expert here, but your explanation sounds about right...
Sat Apr 28, 2012, 06:35 PM
Apr 2012

I've not seen grammar used as an adjective, although grammar-less certainly could. So I think the first is technically incorrect but doubt too many Americans would collapse in horror after hearing it.

The second seems most correct to me--seeing it in writing, but like most people, I don't always speak as I write (and I certainly don't always write with grammatical precision)....
I would probably say it as the third choice.

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