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Related: Culture Forums, Support ForumsThat was your best chance, Cleveland
The only guy in the building who thought the Cavs had the lead in the waning seconds of regulation had the ball in his hands. In overtime, the Warriors didn't mess around and Cleveland lost its composure.
Kevin Love is back, so maybe this series will extend to five games, but Golden State will win for the third time in four years against Cleveland, making that one year the Cavs won look more and more like a fluke.
Botany
(70,567 posts)Don't count your chickens.
BeyondGeography
(39,377 posts)Reversing that charge call was an absolute joke.
applegrove
(118,759 posts)Last edited Fri Jun 1, 2018, 02:17 AM - Edit history (1)
BeyondGeography
(39,377 posts)It was a judgment call; at that time of the game unless its a clear blunder you leave it be. Even the retired TV ref said it was a charge.
Anyway, huge turnaround there. GS likely doesnt win without it.
applegrove
(118,759 posts)overturn the first call.
ProfessorGAC
(65,150 posts)The feet moving thing is not what the rules say. The rules require one to have established position.
One cannot jump in front of a moving player and land on two feet to initiate contact and then get away with a block because the feet were "planted". Doing that cannot result in a charging call.
Referees at every level are trained to watch for that, as the person already with forward momentum cannot be responsible for defying physics.
IMO, that was a block all the way. Even in slo-mo, there is less than second between when LeBron planted himself in the path and the contact. And regular slo-mo is 1/8th speed.
Less than 1/8th of a second is not establishing position.
BeyondGeography
(39,377 posts)It was a borderline/tough call. Theres a case either way and all claims to objectivity by fans in that situation are bogus. Steve Javie who knows more about that play than you and I put together said he would stick with the call. Other equally-informed people will say it was a block. Ive been watching the game for 50 years, so Im used to living with the call. Reviews should be kept to a minimum as in baseball. Out of bounds calls, yes, because they are much more easy to amend in a satisfactory manner. Fouls, no. What is the point of refs if youre going to review that call? Why not review them all? Ie when Durant was clearly not hacked on a previous drive and got the whistle. Or any other call someone didnt like.
ProfessorGAC
(65,150 posts)Two referees made opposite calls. They guy on the wing, foul line extended called it a block. They guy baseline left called it a charge.
The refs had to confer no matter what.
I'm not nuts about "over reviewing" either, but when two officials completely contradict one another, there is no call to stick.
People keep saying (not meaning you but folks like Javie and others on TV) that the call was reversed. There was no call made, because the two officials called two different fouls.
The call was never actually made until after the review. Those saying they would have "let the call stand" are leaving out a critically important fact. There is no call until the referees agree on what the call is.
BeyondGeography
(39,377 posts)Thought they were reviewing because it was near the restricted area and that part of the play wasnt even close.
ProfessorGAC
(65,150 posts)I actually saw that replay during the game itself. When looking at that view, the guy at the 3 line, foul line extended, so far right of the TV screen is calling a block. At the same time, the who would be top left of the screen is calling a charge.
They are practically calling opposite fouls at the exact same time. One guy is 20 feet from the play, the other guy about 25. So, it's not like one ref had a much better view of it than the other. Those two refs CLEARLY disagreed completely on what they both just saw!
What cinched it for me is that in slo-mo, you cannot even count "one thousand" between the time James gets to the spot and the contact. If i were reffing, there is no way i would say that under an eighth of a second is establishing position. That's why i agree with the wing ref.
On Edit: That camera angle might have been from the NBATV post game show, but i think they just use the telecast footage, so it's really probably both.
BeyondGeography
(39,377 posts)https://sports.yahoo.com/cavaliers-anger-over-loss-turns-073343247.html
The indisputable result here is cynicism. Does anyone think that call would have been overturned in favor of an underdog road team? These situations will be extra fun when legal sports betting is up and running.
ProfessorGAC
(65,150 posts)Yeah, the sports betting thing i had not considered. (Not a gambler, so didn't even cross my mind.)
I do hear people who are pretty expert on this saying the NBA and NHL are less likely to be high volume prop bet sports becaue the action is too fluid. But, if they're wrong, then boy are you ever onto something!
BTW: There's a second angle where you can see the refs making the opposite calls. To Durant's left there is camera that is essentially a high angle from the lower left corner of the court aiming at what would be the scorer's desk if it were the other side of the court.
The wing ref is in the upper left and the end line ref is in the lower right. They are almost simultaneously making the call and one is doing the "hands on hips" and the other the "right hand on back of the head".
The explanation you posted might(!) not be a lie. The guy who called it charging might have made that decision, but when all the refs were together is when they all realized that 2 guys made opposing calls.
For all we know, if the guy who called the charge didn't decide to review, the other guy might have said they need to look at that because he saw exactly the opposite.
gratuitous
(82,849 posts)"Whaaaa, whaaaa, whaaaa."
BeyondGeography
(39,377 posts)Just pray LeBron doesnt end up in Houston.
gratuitous
(82,849 posts)But the Warriors are as good as any of those Bulls or Lakers or Celtics teams people talk about as dynasties.
BeyondGeography
(39,377 posts)The Warriors are in the conversation for sure. But I can say with assurance that none of those teams ever won a championship game because someone on the opposing team forgot what the score was.
Iggo
(47,564 posts)BeyondGeography
(39,377 posts)Actually, that would be a good example for JR to point to, but now he's pretending he knew the score was tied so too late.
Trust Buster
(7,299 posts)Ball on two occasions and were called for fouling on totally clean strips. The ejection of Tristan Thompson for a common foul was also a joke. Those three refs should not be involved for the balance of the final IMO.
denbot
(9,901 posts)Be afraid, be very afraid of the Golden State Warriors any fucking time they play the Lakers, pre-season, mid-season, or any team during the conference finals, and most certainly the championship.
lunasun
(21,646 posts)jalan48
(13,881 posts)LeBron moved into Durant as he was going to the basket, that's why the call was reversed.
Awsi Dooger
(14,565 posts)Talent level was much more comparable at that point. The 2016 series price was Golden State -210 (Bet 21 to win 10). This year it was -1200 (Bet 120 to win 10).
Golden State won by 10 in overtime yet did not cover the 12 point spread. That's how lopsided this series is considered.