Ghost, Jon's direwolf might be the "Stark" to die...

I'll be sad to see Ser Jorah go. I'm not sure that Jamie is safe, either. Seems last week was setting something up with the Brienne-Jamie storyline.

Likewise, after Arya's sex scene with Gandry, I'd rather assume the latter is history.

I think Gendry is a pretty good bet, too.

Almost forgot him

if every greyjoy, in fact if every "iron born" were to drown in this battle it would not bother me.

brienne is my favorite, but there isn't any reason she has to live.

jorah and davos are also expendable, or are they? i suppose the mormont girl will live. damn.

i liked the on line prediction that they all die and the iron throne is melted down to make ballot boxes.

In the arms or with Thormund, perhaps, who will confess to her he was fibbing all along about the whole giant thing.

Shame so many great characters from the first few series now seem to just be standing around surplus to requirements: Varys, Tyrion, Theon just for starters. I'd love to see what GRRM would've had in mind for them.

One theory I read several times in the Guardian comments section is that the dead will bypass Winterfell and go straight for King's Landing, or at least deploy a significant portion of their forces there.

Also Hodor might be returning as part of the dead. I must admit that seems plausible...

It would serve Cersei right and boy does she deserve it.

Last edited Sun Apr 28, 2019, 05:15 PM - Edit history (1)

goes to destroy the Citadel with Viserion. The Citadel contains all the books/ knowledge humans have. Sam having stolen some books has to remake the library and writes the Song of Ice and Fire in the aftermath. Basically, Sam is the narrator for this entire story.
Also, notice how the Citadel has an Astrolabe in the center just like the opening credits. This season panels on the astrolabe show different scenes than the last 7. In season 8 credits you see: Viserion knocking down the wall, the red wedding at the twins, and finally the comet and the birth of Daenerys 3 dragons.
It's also made of wood this season instead of gold implying the old one is gone

I think Daenerys will survive today (but not the next war; see above). I suspect Sansa will be safe because otherwise the Stark name will not survive (Jon is Targaryen and I don't see Arya going on to have a brood of children). OTOH we've seen pics of the Starks effigys down in the crypt: Sansa and Arya look young; Jon looks old.

Also I think the Hound is safe, otherwise how can we have a Clegane Bowl? And I think Jaime will be safe because he is the one who will kill the Mad Queen, bringing him full circle (he kills Aerys to save his family and the city; he knows now his family is not worth saving...also, in the books, there was a prophecy that Cersei (along with having only 3 children) is killed by her younger brother. She always assumed that meant Tyrion...but Jaime is her younger twin.

I think everybody else is outta there. Also too Grey Worm and Missandei.

Tyrion? hmm. Hard to say. The books foresaw a great future for him--which I think he has not achieved yet--but the show may have gone too far astray.

I have to say, since the show got ahead of the books I think the quality has plummeted. Lots of action, very little nuance, characters seemingly out of character. Tyrion has been telling the same lame jokes since before Volantis. The whole trip north of the Wall to capture a white walker was stupid and stunningly inept. It bothered me when Sansa smirked after killing Ramsey; it bothered me more when she fell all over Theon. It bothered the fuck out of me when Jon Snow riding a dragon was just something anyone could do (instead of something only a Targaryen could do) AND that it was only an excuse for a romantic interlude. All last season was fan fiction imo. Puhleese. #FinishtheBooks

but Jon Snow IS a Targaryen, so I'm not sure why you're saying that anyone could do it. Maybe because Dany should have instantly figured out that Jon WAS a Targaryen when he did?

or rather, didn't. Not a flicker of amazement, or curiosity, or wonderment. Not when Jon was so easily accepted as a rider, and not when Drogon was snuffling him on the clifftop at Dragonstone. I think she should have had an inkling of the Bombshell News. So I thought it was clumsy and, again, lacking depth.

a doubt.

The first episode of the season, let's face it ... was all-around WEAK. Episode 2, otoh, was pretty awesome. Let's hope the latter more closely reflects the quality of our precious last 4 episodes.

There will be a
Baratheon/ Stark for the next generation.
Cersei carries the next generation Lannister .
The war will go on.

Before the end,but not tonight we lose Jaime and Dani,

Jon goes on to father future Targareons.

Tyreon lives till last episode. After Jaime dies,he sacrifices himself to save Cersei because of the Lannister she carries.

Dany spoke of breaking the wheel...the true born Baratheons are gone (only Gendry remains of the bastards and he's probably gone tonight); the Tyrells are gone; the Martells are gone; the Aerie has only the weak and inept Robyn left; the Greyjoys have only Yara (assuming Euron gets what's coming to him). That leaves Sansa and Arya for House Stark (I discount Bran); Jaime, Tyrion and Cersei for the Lannisters--four of the five are in mortal peril even as we speak, and the fifth richly deserves a horrible end...that leaves two Targaryens, Jon and Dany.

Looks like most of the spokes are already gone. And I really really don't see Tyrion lifting a finger to save Cersei. Jaime either, for that matter--he'd be more likely to kill her, as he did the Mad King, if he lives long enough.

I think Dany and her dragons will die saving the world, and Jon will live on to rule.

That's why I think of it as fan fiction nothing else. There are major plot lines completely waved away or dropped entirely. Brienne's and Jamie's arcs are completely different. Also, the show has not fully explained the Night King nor Bran at all. The biggest threat to everyone is still a giant mystery that I don't will ever be solved.

With that said, the show has to operate under constraints not available to Martin. They cannot hang onto the actors forever while he slowly finishes the books.

is that a) he's a slow writer anyway and b) from the gitgo the books were analyzed and parsed six ways from Sunday. The first mention of R+L=J (i.e. Jon's parentage) was barely a year after the first book was published (more than 20 years ago now!).

So he spent a lot of time on tangents and red herrings and subplots...and now maybe he can't find his way back.

You could see in the last book. He piled on a bunch of different characters which completely altered his path. The entire series was supposed to be five books.

I have no hope that he will finish the last two books. It's been 8 years since the last one, and he's moving on to the prequels.

Lady Stoneheart lives!

that the show will end in similar fashion to the books - Weiss & Benioff know how all the characters are going to die (or if) and who sits on the Iron Throne in the end,

Of course, the books have a lot more characters and I'm sure the journey to the end will be different just because of Lady Stoneheart, the Ghost of Winterfell, Garlan Tyrell and others that are not on the show.

We may just be assuming it is her family...

I think--it's been a while

gets roasted by the Night King's Dragonfire.

I hope he lives. Even more, I hope Arya saves him. I've been disappointed in their reunion (one of many problems I have with characters not acting like...themselves)(i.e. what I expect). She learned/realized in Bravos that she didn't want him dead; she could have said something like that, in a back-handed complimentary way.

so they owe us.

where is she?

Look to the East...I think she told that to Varyas at Dragonstone before she left for Valantis.

Sound like Yoda, I do.

hahahahah...

Some thoughts I have or say questions.....could these questions link into tonights Big Battle Episode?

Why do the Starks say, " There must be a Stark always in Winterfell'? and.." The North Remember?...What exactly do they remember and is it something that stated thousands of years ago during the "Long Night" ...so long ago, the meaning has been lost?

I found it intresting last week, episode 2, that Tyrion sat down and had a long chat with Bran/ Three Eye'd Raven after the War Counsel....I bet he learned a lot...

Plus, is the crypts safe?

I am sure i have more thoughts....What say you DU'ers?

since everyone has been so pointedly saying they are (will all the dead Starks rise and fight on the wrong side?!!!1?)

I think the Starks say there must always be a Stark in Winterfell because unlike some families (cough) Lannisters (cough) they care more about looking after their own than seeking power elsewhere. As for "the North remembers," well, they hold their grudges and loyalties equally close.

just my two cents. it would be interesting though, if Tyrion learned some Very Important Fact from the human google search that is Bran

Tyrion is going to have a brilliant moment for sure.....When they were sipping wine at the hearth....he said, "I think we will live". I tend to believe he is on to something...

Then Jon won't be king (that would be like a Plantagenent reigning instead of the Tudors). Plus that would be too prosaic, as it would be for Dany. This series is never that pat. Gendry would be there at the end (think his dalliance with Arya carries more weight than some believe).

That said, most of the other predictions in the OP are pretty right on, although I think Podrick and Brienne live past tonight.

Also I'm not at all sure humans will win the day at the end, knowing Martin's predilections and the climate change metaphor.

Finally, I've not read a lot of predictions but have seen several reviews of last week's show and none of them mentioned a brief talk that I think could be important. For a moment they discussed whether wildfire could be used against the army of the dead and no one knew. I could see Tyrion redeeming himself by getting wildfire somehow from King's Landing (or if it's with Cersei's army) and having it brought back to save the day. To me it was an interesting - albeit brief - in the planning for the attack that got dropped.

judging from the way fire dies down before him, I'm guessing not.

Also--the Jon-as-ruler storyline is not all that pat. True, many of us have been sure for years about his parentage, but the legitimacy of his birth and claim is brand new to all.

I think Dany becoming queen is way too pat, though. I think she will prove her ultimate worthiness (which has doubts around it right now) by risking and losing her life for her subjects.

And wondered if it would work against his arm. It was a scene that lasted almost a minute. Doubt they included it and nothing comes of it but guess that's possible.

Jon was always an easy choice as one who would take the throne, and it hasn't always come down to a clean line of succession anyway. So even though he is now a Targeryan instead of a Stark, it still seems too obvious to me. But again, I'm not even sure humans will crown a king when all is said and done.

Should be fun tonight and all the rest of the way.

I could see that.

because of her training.
She taught him well and he will sacrifice himself to save/protect her tonight.

But I think their earlier epic battle (season 4, I think?), that left him on deaths door, when Arya ended up sayin' "later" ... is going to tie in here in the last few episodes.

Also IIRC that was one on the 'reunions' that hasn't happened in ep. 1 & 2. I suspect it will on the battlefield.

Of ALL things I'm sure of, it's that The Hound must fight The Mountain, there's no question about that in my mind ...

Other than that, no guesses. Going to allow it to unfold without wondering about how it will happen.


Do wish that man would get on with the books already. And he better not get so lazy as to mirror the show. It's been a long good walk, no shortcuts now, please.

Arya trying to hide from a walker! It's like walking dead all over!

Oh, I am afraid to watch. I get out of rehearsal at 9 so no more Internet on my breaks until after I see it.

I don't want to lose the Hound! ☹️

I have been doing my best to avoid spoilers

Foreshadow for who will be king?

Maybe her 1 time with Gendry got her pregnant ?

Man, that Lyanna Mormont. Wow. What a fitting end for giant leader in a small body.

Is that a premonition from Melisandre? Is Arya going to kill Dany?


Oh, BLUE eyes! The dead.

And it's not over yet.

Theon is going to die for Bran.

Never have been so satisfied with a twist.

that they tried to kill Bran with

Did Arya have it all along? Apparently made of dragon steel.

when it broke, it fell out into her hand. I think she designed it to break apart like that

My GOD that was satisfying!

and, I was wrong. She had the dagger in her left hand and dropped it like she was passing out/dying and caught it in her right hand to stab him.

it was the dagger that was used in the attempt on Bran's life. Littlefinger claimed it was his, which he lost in a bet to Tyrion (thereby sending Cate after him). Littlefinger reclaimed it and then gave it to Bran--trying to ingratiate himself? while knowing even less than Jon Snow. Bran gave it to Arya....knowing she would need it. (there was another omen--in a book Sam was reading at the Citadel it was pictured on one of the pages).

Bran knows who it originally belonged to, I wonder if he will tell us?

and knowing how to anticipate. When I watch this series again, I will pay close attention to what she was learning along the way.

And where was Bram when he was white eyed?

What story arcs in this show (book). I can hardly keep it all straight as much as I obsess over it but think of what it took as far as character outline to write it! No wonder it has taken him so long. At this point he probably does not even want to finish it up. I would LOVE to see the boxes of notes he must have.

I can hardly think of not having this show, I hope the prequels are good. I will re-read these books over and over probably over the rest of my life. Just knowing I missed so much before makes them interesting all over again. I did not understand that the first time I read them, a little more after listening to them. Seriously, I am so in awe of authors who can write like this. People who think it is just crap fantasy (and I know several) don't have a clue about a well written story, especially one that can carry so many people to such a level of interest.

You're right - they have no clue.

Give me a book I can lose myself in; one that becomes a part of me.

But I need him to finish those books. There's a piece of me missing.

are the books that suit me the best and this is one of the best examples with the chapters being organized around one character mostly. It is the reason I love Stephen King so much, his character development is maybe not always the best but in the books I love the most I feel like they are family.

I also need the books to finish. I would imagine the ending is the same or very close but I still want to read it, I want to feel those characters in the way you only can by reading a book.

That is all.

It was fine when it was pre-show speculation, but now people are discussing happenings in the Episode, which not everyone gets to watch in real-time.

TIME TO STOP!!!

Anyone who is worried about spoilers should stay off the internet because people are going to discuss.

I am sore from being so tense. Cried for a moment because it looked so over and so bad.

Hound is still with us. YAY!

I will miss Jorah. I am not sure about Brienne, she looked to be covered in bad guys, same with Podrick who was with her. Jamie looked done in and surrounded. Sam, wth was that? John walked right by him. Sad about Edd.

Interesting conversation with Sansa and Tyrion.

This was one heck of a show tonight. I am thrilled that Davos is still with us and hoping that Tormund is as well.

WTG Arya. What a woman!

Now for a good week full of podcasts to listen to so I can make it until next week!

He was surprised and fearful all at once. Disbelief at what he was seeing her do.

Holy crap! Arya really stepped up her game. I've always thought of her as a one-dimensional being: the living embodiment of revenge ("When people ask what happened here, tell them the North remembers. Tell them winter came for House Frey.&quot . Glad to see there is more to her than that.

Soon as she said a girl is Arya Stark her anger became something else. No less lethal but more directed. More focused. More controlled.

Nymeria couldn't - and wouldn't - go back to Winterfell with Arya. Too wild, too free, too long - but Arya Stark could.

Loved him in the books but Liam Cunningham has made him even better! He is a thinker, watches and has the answers I do believe. He will still have a major role and I just wonder what eventually happens to him. The looks between Melisandre and him before she walked out to die was the perfect end to their relationship, simple and absolutely perfect. We knew everything he was thinking and I was content that he did not end her himself. I have to consider what Liam Cunningham did with this cool character as brilliant. He wears Davos.

Back to Arya, it was something when he was watching her. I always figure he has something cooking in his brain when he watches like that. He will have some ideas how to use that even if she does not listen. lol I have to watch this again. I was just out of a 5 hour rehearsal and was still needing to close out the barn animals and was just dead tired. There is ALWAYS something to see that you miss but I bet I missed much more than usual.

While reading the books for the first time I always wondered what was going to become of Arya. I never saw her for a tragic ending but never really saw her as the one at the top when it ends. Now I see that I "know nothing" and an interesting few more episodes will be a surprise for me.

My oldest son will be home tomorrow and we will bore my husband with hours of GOT discussion. He is brilliant and always has interesting insights that pass my mediocre brain like a feather in a windstorm. I cannot wait to talk to him.

often show the way.

The smuggler, the bastard, a girl(s), the "deformed", the maimed, the outcasts - the different.

I'm glad he allowed Melisandre to face her own death - her way.

he was dedicated enough to learn how to read as an adult.

I watch YouTube videos.

Like many I have lived with these characters for such a long time being absolutely in love with the books first. I have never watched them on YouTube, never even thought of that. Oh joy! I will do that as we wait for the next book!

My favorite is the Winter Is Coming podcast with House Razor, a little less the Take The Black Live. I look all over the website Winter Is Coming for interesting stories. I have a list of them on my phone to listen to while I clean the barn or do boring farm chores. Most of them are good for food for thought. If nothing else they just continue my strange addiction. An addiction I am happy to have.

My sister can't understand my gradual addiction to it because of all the violence, seen as cruel. I cheat by reading recaps befor watching and got hooked on the After the Thrones foursome that was on HBO for a while. Now they are on Twitter right after the east coast airing. I watch the west coast airing and have plenty of time to spoil me rotten.

Link to tweet

Ditto Sam, the Hound and Davos. Lord Beric, Mormont, Lady Mormont, Ed, Theon are gone--didn't see what happened to Gendry and Tormund.

Way more people lived than I thought. But not the Dothraki, or the Unsullied; the ice dragon is gone but what about Rhaegal? He was down, is he also out? And what about Ghost? He went out into the battle but I never saw him again.

Looks like we're down to one dragon and a handful of doughty heroes against Cersei and her 20,000 mercenaries. Ugh.

you can see it on Twitter if you search for Ghost GoT

I'm very glad: I think too many of the direwolves have gotten short shrift. I thought from the symbolism of the opening scene with them that they would play a bigger role.

it doesn't seem like there is more than a handful of others left. After the thousands of Dothraki charged, only a few came running back. I think Grey Worm made it? But, there can't be too many more of them?

Do they go to the Knights of the Vale again? Whatever happened to them after Littlefinger rescued Jon at the Battle of the Bastards? How about the Riverlands now that Arya killed most of the Freys?

Theon was quite a redemption arc!

I had heard a podcast mention that this might just end the fight with the White Walkers and the Night King so they could fight Cersi and damn, I had never even thought of that. I bet Arya takes a good measure of that fight as well. It will be easier with her face changing to get close. Hmmmmm, interesting. The Dothraki and the Unsullied I am not surprised but it does make me sad as does the supposed end of the House of Mormont. Edd I loved Edd. Ahh, I could go on but there are many things besides GOT so.....

Thanks for the info. I was mostly worried about Sam (and the Hound, my favorite but saw him) and I am happy he made it. Will he ever forgive Jon for walking away? Jon had to do that, greater good and all, but that would cut a person to have that happen to them.

Wow.

Poor Ghost.

Can't wait for the next episode to see the aftermath and all the survivors. Down to 1 dragon and is it one or two direwolves?

I hope Joe Biden is the Arya of the nightmare we're living right now.

She is feisty, prepared, and ready to do battle.

They're in next week's preview. It appears Ghost is behind someone at 0:18 seconds in the video.

( as in brightness )

...if there wasn't any fire on the screen, we couldn't see shit.

For the record, we watched it in a dark room with only the light of the television and we still had a hard time seeing anything.

I know all the budget went to the dragons (sorry, white wolf fans, that's the way it goes), but a night battle in the fog? That kinda sucked.

Still, it added to the tension...lol.

EDIT ADD: I saw a comic book movie with a forty-five minute brightly lit high definition brightly colored battle, so maybe my expectation was...um...colored by that experience. Helluva weekend, though. From Endgame to GOT. Not bad at all.

This wasn’t just a two way thing. She’s got a really big sry and Urin Geyjoy?’s navy. I do believe Danny’s down to on dragon in her Air Force and they could have ballistas. Not Knight King level but they could still damage a dragon.

I watched it with my wife who's a fanatic. I was stepping out of the room near the beginning and she said "the battle is about to start. Want me to pause it" I knew the battle was going to be the whole episode so I said "no go ahead I'll catch up".

Tense from the beginning.
I will say it was a little too dark in terms of brightness but there could be reasons for that.
Fantastic battle scenes.
I knew enough about the characters to have a clue what the depth of the story was.
At one point it looked really bad and I was thinking - How many episodes are left? What story line could they possibly have?
I'd guessed before my wife said it WHAT had to be done. Very well done they way they did that.

As a friend posted on Facebook "I feel like I just ran a marathon"

Over all it was one of the greatest things I've seen on TV. If you can pull in a new viewer like me - you know what you are doing. Very very well done.

yesterday and in between I took my instrument partner out for dinner for his birthday and another friend came along. Neither of them had read the books or seen the show or cared one way or the other about it. I thought I would lose my mind! I wanted to talk about it. All they could say is they were waiting for it to show up somewhere since they did not have HBO but they only wanted to watch it because of all the "nekid" women. *sigh* I actually think they would like it but they don't seem like the kind of people to commit to something like a long term TV show.

Glad you liked it. I pulled my husband in, he thought it would be stupid but I had it on and he gradually kinda got interested. When our oldest son started to come home and spend an hour talking to me about it he gave in. I think he likes it just fine now but he will never watch it again or read the books. That was some episode last night.

and for the first time ever the episode for a bad review.
The criticism is that the story is about Ice vs Fire and humans defeated the Wight King too easily and now the whole story is about who gets the throne.

Personally I loved Arya's big monent,but it does seem like it was a very easy way to defeat such a monster.

Maybe the origin of that dagger makes it more deadly than other Valarian steel?

I like the idea that we go back to characters fighting for the throne,but probably there should be something yet to come about Ice vs Fire.

(And on a side note,could Tyreon and Sansa get back together?)

about Bran and his connection to the Night King.

I think Ice and Fire is also Jon Snow and Daenerys

GAME OF THRONES is kind of dumb of them.
It wasn't called Kill the Night King....

I have rarely spent an hour and a half in such suspense and turmoil over a TV show! Tyrion and Arya were my favorites in the books and still are in the show.

No, Arya killing the Night King wasn't badass. It was a ridiculous cop-out. 8 long, painful years of buildup to this??

The Lord of the Rings still had The Scouring of The Shire.

My one quibble is how the show's writers have Made Jon Snow so completely useless.

Does he ever actually accomplish anything? The direwolves saved his bacon against the wildlings south of the Wall. Stannis saved his bacon against the wildlings north of the Wall. The Red Woman saved his bacon after the Night's Watch murdered him. The charging northern army saved his bacon against Ramsey's army and then the Knights of the Vale did it again. Daenerys and her dragons mostly saved his bacon on the expedition to get a white walker (dumb idea to begin with) and then Uncle Benjen finished the job. And now Arya has saved his and everyone's bacon by slaying the Night King her own self.

What does Jon Snow actually DO?

in the books he's far more complex and interesting.

Sigh.

Always someone else has to save his ass, (Particularly his "sisters" )

my question to them is "where have you been"? Entire plot threads on the show, the Martells, the Freys, the Faceless men, the Vale, Slaver's bay, have all ended rather abruptly.

The show has to operate under constraints, physical locations, budgets, actor contracts, CGI, etc., that the books don't have. On top of all that, George has not written a new book since 2011. George hasn't even explained the White Walkers or the Night King at all. Nor has he explained Bran's powers.

George outsourced the final chapters of his saga, and we got what we got. I can clearly see the producers and writers of the show being told this is what you have, come up with an ending which they did. Is it somewhat unsatisfying? Yes, but wasn't it destined to be unsatisfying?

when Stannis was killed off on the show - a segment of book readers on westeros.org were outraged because they had been convinced that Stannis was the one that was going to end up on the Iron Throne in the end and that the Pink Letter at the end of A Dance with Dragons was a fake/forgery and that the show was fan fiction because Stannis dying just not possible in their eyes.

However, it never seemed to dawn on them that the showrunners (David Benioff and DB Weiss) know the fates of the characters from the books because George R.R. Martin told them how they died. Sure, maybe Brienne doesn't kill him in the books, but I highly doubt Stannis is going to "win" in the end in the books.

That was another abrupt character arc ending.

i think Weiss and Benioff (the showrunners) have not done a good job with Tyrion and Jon Snow.

The show's also gotten a little too clean and too "happy" for me as well - while they've had some great tragic or awesome moments (deaths of Hodor and Viserion, Arya's revenge on the Freys, etc) and episodes (Hardhome, Battle of the Bastards, Spoils of War...), I would imagine that the main characters will have a far more tortuous route to the climax if George RR Martin ever finishes the last two books. It seems to be running a little more smoothly than it should: The blowing up of the Sept of Baelor was a little too convenient a way to kill off half the cast and then Euron Greyjoy wipes out most of the Dornish at sea...bang, bang, Cersei eliminates the Martells and the Tyrells.

1. They don't have any source material to work from.
2. They have a limited period of time and resources to wrap up all of these story lines.
3. They're not fantasy writers. That's not their forte.

I don't fault them. They're doing the best that they can with what they have. Unlike Martin who can take 8 years, and counting, to finish the books, introduce entire new character arcs late in the story which makes the narrative unwieldy to complete, doesn't explain anything about the magic of the story, etc., etc.

I get the obsession with the books/series. Anyone can post a conspiracy theory, and that's the best part. However, in the end, this entire project can never be adaptable to everyone's liking.