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discntnt_irny_srcsm

(18,482 posts)
Wed Jul 29, 2020, 03:28 PM Jul 2020

Historical trivia

William Penn was given the land that is now Pennsylvania and Delaware. The land grant was payment for what was owed by the King to Penn's father. Since Delaware had settlers there he (I guess) let them have it. Using some average land value from 2015 that I found on the web in something close in value to current dollars, Pennsylvania (land only) today is worth well over $900 Billion.

I remember reading somewhere that Penn was the richest (in land value) non-monarch ever.

Know any historical trivia?

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Historical trivia (Original Post) discntnt_irny_srcsm Jul 2020 OP
William Penn was a military man, later converted to Quakerism gratuitous Jul 2020 #1
Some of my ancestors bought land from William Penn about 1682 csziggy Jul 2020 #2
Odd consequences of the Twelve Mile Circle discntnt_irny_srcsm Jul 2020 #4
Yes, that is in the Wikipedia article csziggy Jul 2020 #6
Penn just wanted to call it Sylvania Wolf Frankula Jul 2020 #3
But the name had already been trademarked for lightbulbs. NT mahatmakanejeeves Jul 2020 #5
Sylvania is also the rival country Doc_Technical Jul 2020 #7

gratuitous

(82,849 posts)
1. William Penn was a military man, later converted to Quakerism
Wed Jul 29, 2020, 06:44 PM
Jul 2020

Upon his retirement from the military, his men presented him with a commemorative ceremonial sword. When Penn became governor of Pennsylvania, he liked to wear the sword to formal occasions and events. Upon converting to Quakerism and its pacifist philosophy, he worried whether it was appropriate to continue wearing the sword.

He consulted with George Fox, his spiritual mentor. In keeping with with the Quaker philosophy of no coercion in matters of conscience, Fox didn't tell Penn whether it was correct or proper. He simply advised him to wear the sword as long as he was able to wear it. Shortly after that, Penn put up the sword and didn't wear it again.

csziggy

(34,138 posts)
2. Some of my ancestors bought land from William Penn about 1682
Wed Jul 29, 2020, 11:45 PM
Jul 2020

Their families arrived in Pennsylvania before Penn did - one of the sons swore an affidavit that he was on the dock when Penn's ship arrived.

One family owned land in a bend in the Brandywine Creek. Depending on the survey, it was sometimes in Pennsylvania and sometimes in Delaware - though he was once Governor of Delaware.

The line at that point is known as the Twelve Mile Circle and caused the Penn-Calvert boundary dispute:

The Twelve-Mile Circle is an approximately circular arc which forms most of the boundary between the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania and the State of Delaware in the United States. It is not actually a circle, but rather a combination of different circular arcs that have been feathered together.[1][2]

It is nominally a circle with a supposed—yet in fact only approximate and variable—12-mile (19 km) radius,[3] centered in the town of New Castle, Delaware. In 1750, the center of the circle was fixed at the cupola of the courthouse in New Castle. The Twelve-Mile Circle continues into the Delaware River. A small portion of the circle, known as the "Arc Line," also forms part of the Mason-Dixon line, separating Delaware and Maryland. Two other small portions, although not actually demarcated until 1934, form parts of the boundary between the states of Delaware and New Jersey.[4] Although the Twelve-Mile Circle is often claimed to be the only territorial boundary in the United States that is a true arc, many cities in the South (such as Plains, Georgia[5]) also have circular boundaries.

Its existence dates back to 1681, when Charles II granted a deed to William Penn north of the already chartered Maryland. Charles created an exception, consisting of 12 miles around the town of New Castle and extending down the peninsula, as these lands were held by the Duke of York, who had won them in conquest from the Dutch colonists. Later, on August 24, 1682, the Duke granted these lands to Penn as well, giving him:

all that the Towne of Newcastle otherwise called Delaware and All that Tract of Land lying within the Compass or Circle of 12 Miles about the same scituate lying and being upon the River Delaware in America And all Islands in the same River Delaware and the said River and Soyle thereof lying North of the Southermost part of the said Circle of 12 Miles about the said Towne.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelve-Mile_Circle

The Penn–Calvert boundary dispute (also known as Penn vs. Baltimore) was a long-running legal conflict between William Penn and his heirs on one side, and Charles Calvert, 3rd Baron Baltimore and his heirs on the other side. The overlapping nature of their charters of land in Colonial America required numerous attempts at mediation, surveying, and intervention by the king and courts of England to ultimately be resolved. Subsequent questions over these charters have also been adjudicated by American arbitrators and the Supreme Court of the United States. The boundary dispute shaped the eventual borders of five U.S. states: Pennsylvania, Maryland, Delaware, New Jersey, and West Virginia.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penn%E2%80%93Calvert_boundary_dispute


You can see the arc of the dividing line and the southward loop of the Brandywine on this map just east of where it says "Pennsbury 1770". The 200 acres in that southward loop was what my ancestor owned!



discntnt_irny_srcsm

(18,482 posts)
4. Odd consequences of the Twelve Mile Circle
Thu Jul 30, 2020, 09:33 AM
Jul 2020

This boundary was construed as extending beyond the Western Delaware River shoreline. From Marcus Hook, PA South to Delaware City this length of the Delaware River is entirely within the State of Delaware. Within this stretch of river is a 400 acre area containing the Delaware River Nature Reserve. This area is on the East side of the river and land accessible only from New Jersey but part of the State of Delaware.



csziggy

(34,138 posts)
6. Yes, that is in the Wikipedia article
Thu Jul 30, 2020, 12:37 PM
Jul 2020

I found it amusing - especially when I'd looked up where my ancestor's land in PA wsa and found it in Delaware. One of the fun bits is that his son or grandson was on the survey crew at least one of the times the Twelve Mile Circle was re-surveyed. I think that might have been the one that finally put his father's land in Delaware for certain.

Wolf Frankula

(3,602 posts)
3. Penn just wanted to call it Sylvania
Thu Jul 30, 2020, 12:35 AM
Jul 2020

He agreed to Pennsylvania after being told it was named after his father, also named William Penn. Perhaps we should call it Juniorsylvania.

Wolf

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