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Hugh_Lebowski

(33,643 posts)
Sun Aug 20, 2023, 04:04 PM Aug 2023

Just stumbled upon the scientific study where they raised a human child with a chimp

In the 1931's.

In 1931, two psychologists, Winthrop and Luella Kellogg, began an experiment to see if a chimpanzee could learn human behavior by raising it with their own baby. The idea was to see if the chimp, named Gua, would learn to walk upright, speak, and engage in other human-like activities.


Can't believe I've never encountered the story ... fascinating stuff! And I love how hardcore science used to be, even if it may've not turned out well for either animal, these are advancements that are not without value, and it was the scientists own child so there's that.




A video about the research:


8 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Just stumbled upon the scientific study where they raised a human child with a chimp (Original Post) Hugh_Lebowski Aug 2023 OP
Would that be ethically correct to do so? I remember in college reading about this. debm55 Aug 2023 #1
I think this is a case where hindsight is 20/20 Hugh_Lebowski Aug 2023 #5
The only thing worse bucolic_frolic Aug 2023 #2
If you mean couldn't do this to an innocent baby Chimpanzee like this ... Hugh_Lebowski Aug 2023 #7
Wow! Thanks for posting. Never heard of this either. brush Aug 2023 #3
a reference that doesn't give Elon Musk clicks DBoon Aug 2023 #4
Even better, thanks! (nt) Hugh_Lebowski Aug 2023 #6
Correct, the first three years of a child's life shapes the child. What in hell were they thinking. debm55 Aug 2023 #8

debm55

(25,412 posts)
1. Would that be ethically correct to do so? I remember in college reading about this.
Sun Aug 20, 2023, 04:09 PM
Aug 2023
Wrong on so many levels.
 

Hugh_Lebowski

(33,643 posts)
5. I think this is a case where hindsight is 20/20
Sun Aug 20, 2023, 04:20 PM
Aug 2023

It's not like I look at the supposition and think 'well, no way this could work out well', esp. based on 1931 scientific thinking.

At least they used their own child as the subject as opposed to, say, a little Native American or Black baby as would've sadly been typical at the time.

Unfortunate that he committed suicide at 48. But then, so have lots of others, without having been raised 0-9 months with a chimp for a friend

bucolic_frolic

(43,296 posts)
2. The only thing worse
Sun Aug 20, 2023, 04:10 PM
Aug 2023

than one psychologist, is more psychologists. I sure hope they couldn't do that to a child today.

 

Hugh_Lebowski

(33,643 posts)
7. If you mean couldn't do this to an innocent baby Chimpanzee like this ...
Sun Aug 20, 2023, 04:39 PM
Aug 2023

Then I agree 100%. Because the experiment on the chimp was far more radical.

Human babies have grown up with primate friends like monkeys and lemurs (and other mammals like sheep and pig and cattle and cats and dogs) throughout all of history (especially in Asia and Africa). And Donald's own parents were clearly around for all of it, the chimp's parents were not.

These scientists did not have reason to believe it would harm their child or I'm sure they'd not have done so.

brush

(53,871 posts)
3. Wow! Thanks for posting. Never heard of this either.
Sun Aug 20, 2023, 04:14 PM
Aug 2023

Guess the reason being that it was such a disastrous failure.

DBoon

(22,397 posts)
4. a reference that doesn't give Elon Musk clicks
Sun Aug 20, 2023, 04:17 PM
Aug 2023
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/guy-simultaneously-raised-chimp-and-baby-exactly-same-way-see-what-would-happen-180952171/

On June 26, 1931, comparative psychologist Winthrop Niles Kellogg and his wife welcomed a new arrival home: not a human infant, but a baby chimpanzee. The couple planned to raise the chimp, Gua, alongside their own baby boy, Donald. As later described in the Psychological Record, the idea was to see how environment influenced development. Could a chimp grow up to behave like a human? Or even think it was a human?

...

They raised the two babies in exactly the same way, in addition to conducting an exhaustive list of scientific experiments that included subjects such as "blood pressure, memory, body size, scribbling, reflexes, depth perception, vocalization, locomotion, reactions to tickling, strength, manual dexterity, problem solving, fears, equilibrium, play behavior, climbing, obedience, grasping, language comprehension, attention span and others," the Psychological Record authors note.

For a while, Gua actually excelled at these tests compared to Donald.

...
The experiment, however, ended rather abruptly and mysteriously. As the Psychological Record authors describe:

Our final concern is why the project ended when it did.

We are told only that the study was terminated on March 28, 1932, when Gua was returned to the Orange Park primate colony through a gradual rehabilitating process. But as for why, the Kelloggs, who are so specific on so many other points, leave the reader wondering.


It could be that the Kelloggs were simply exhausted from nine months of nonstop parenting and scientific work. Or perhaps it was the fact that Gua was becoming stronger and less manageable, and that the Kelloggs feared she might harm her human brother. Finally, one other possibility comes to mind, the authors point out: While Gua showed no signs of learning human languages, her brother Donald had begun imitating Gua's chimp noises. "In short, the language retardation in Donald may have brought an end to the study," the authors write.

debm55

(25,412 posts)
8. Correct, the first three years of a child's life shapes the child. What in hell were they thinking.
Sun Aug 20, 2023, 05:05 PM
Aug 2023

They did damage to their own child and to the chimp social being.

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