That's why my folks are no longer married.
Sad, really.

Wasn't the point of my OP. Though I agree it's probably often the catalyst for a split. I'm actually surprised my parrents are still together, not because of this reason but because they are such different people, and have become more and more different over time. But they clearly love each other still in their own way.

I get along well with my dad...my stepmom, not so much.

which is why I'll never marry unless it's open...or I find someone who makes everybody else sexually-invisible.

I'd like a committed primary...but we should be free to have fun on the side, separately or together.

Monogamy is often difficult and certainly not just for men after all it takes 2 to cheat and women aren't immune at all.

Just because I'm on a diet doesn't mean I can't look at the menu.

Don't be "that guy"

'cos that why I divorced him..

Me: Either she goes or I go.

Him: You can't give me an ultimatum.

Me: Not an ultimatum, statement of fact.

Just because you know someone well, doesn't guarantee that you know them at all.

That know one knows another well enough to know? Or do you mean specifically I might not know my father?

personally, a few years back I discovered inadvertently that a very close relative had a 10 year long affair that none of us knew about. No-one, and I mean no-one would have ever expected this individual leading a double life. I didn't tell anyone though, because I figured everyone is entitled to their own skeletons in the closet, and since no-one else knew; then no harm, no foul.

It would not surprise me a great deal. I think I would still be hurt and I would feel very sorry for my mother. Although I would still understand it in the context of things. Families are complex entities. My mother is a wonderful loving person, but she can he difficult to love, and she is so different from my father it's a wonder they are still together and actually DO love each other still.

She introduced herself as his girlfriend. I thought it was strange because he had been dating another girl for seven years. He continued to date both of them for awhile without their knowing it. Eventually he broke up with both of them and dated many other girls for years. He is happily married now.

we were pretty young. He managed to get a pic of us on the extreme left side, and a beautiful woman in an orange bikini standing slightly behind us on the right. I'm thinking that was no accident!

with another women and that wasn't a talked about thing in the 50s .

Most of her life? Do you feel she would have been happier not married in this day and age? One way to look at it was that she may have been happier having had the affair than like so many who simply manage to deny their sexuality their whole lives and never experience happiness with someone they are actually attracted to. How do you and your brother feel about the incident? Sorry to pry, no need to answer if too personal.

I don't see what the attraction was -- he's a self-entitled, manipulative douche-canoe with a streak of violence. He's not even that physically attractive, and according to wives 2 and 3, not so great in either courtship or bed. His attractiveness to certain women does not speak well of my gender. 5 marriages and at least 8 affairs that I know of.

Fortunately, wife 5 got wise, and when she left, took him to the divorce court cleaners. I didn't like her, but I cheered her on and testified against him. I danced while I burned, then napalmed, then nuked that bridge.

Unfortunately, by the time my mother (#3) got sick of his shitful ways, she wanted him gone so badly that she didn't even persue child support. (Actually a good call on her part -- he would have been resentful and controlling and writing that monthly check would have probably inspired violence and/or stalking.)

Worst decision my mother ever made was not heading straight to Planned Parenthood when she realized she was pregnant with me. Second worst was marrying him. (Not that I'm not happy to be here but my existence was bought at too high a price.)

Families can be huge cluster fucks that's for sure. When I made my OP I wasn't thinking of the fact that many who would reply would be from families where said father or mothers philandering ways had wrought tragedy. My own father is a lovable nice guy and though his eyes wander he means well, well for the most part anyway. He feels guilty of it too, he's told me.

Did he do damage? Yes, but my best friend's parents, who while being incredibly happy and gentle, were massively over-protective (early model helicopter parents) and in their way, did equal but more invisible damage. My best friend entered adulthood with little experience of failure, very little emotional armor, far too little skepticism and a sense of security that was not rooted in her own abilities and sense of self-reliance and direction. Her early adulthood was a series of brutal shatterings. At least I knew pretty early that I was growing up in a toxic situation. That knowledge alone served as insulation and gave me a toolset for self-defense. (On the other hand, I know that I'm lucky because I seem to have an innate bullshit detector that was fairly well tuned out of the box, and that somehow engendered a confidence in my own senses despite growing up under regular gaslighting.)

For me, having first hand, intimate knowledge of a rather common, garden-variety jackwagon meant that I had the tools to avoid many sub-species of jackwagon and to recognize those species much earlier than most of my peers. I didn't have to go through a phase of dating oxygen thieves, and I caught on to abusive bosses a lot faster, which gave me both the time and the diplomatic skills to protect myself while finding another job. That's not saying I didn't make mistakes -- FSM knows I did -- but for me, the recovery was easier. And his bad example actually taught me both empathy -- because I do understand how devastating one bad decision can be -- and into a progressive (initially as a rebellious reaction to his BS, later because I cannot accept authoritarianism nor manipulation.ETA: also, because I recognize a lot of his speech patterns, mannerisms and behavioral cues in a lot of the more untrustworthy Republicans. Those cues aren't entirely reliable, but they make me be wary and watch for the bigger cues. Which is a useful survival skill.)

My mother bore the brunt of the damage, and I think it was worse for her, because her childhood toxicities didn't give her any natural immunities.

Not a carbon copy but similar results. I inherited serious social anxiety and depression issue from both my mother and fathers side of the family. As a result I was terrified of any form of socialization as a small child and unfortunately my parents played into the condition and kept me close to their side all my life. I've developed other skills to compensate and in some ways I'm more mature than my 31 years but in many other ways I'm a 16 year old in the shell of a young man. I'm making strides to fix these issues of late but there is no doubt that the past 10+ years have been spent largely revisiting square one. I don't blame my parents for what they did as they simply saw it as protecting a scarred young child, but had they known better I would have been better off if they had they continually but slowly pushed me out of my comfort zone. Instead they clothed me in layers of familial protection such that at 30 I've never so much as held hand with a women, never left my parents side for more than a week, never had many if any friends, the list goes on. But like I said I'm that's the past, I'm making large strides to fix my problems.

Protectiveness is a reasonable, rational response, and especially when a child is anxious and the parents' strategies for coping with anxiety already lean towards withdrawal rather than confrontation. It's really hard to fight what feels comfortable. Socialization of any sort requires practice and exposure and most importantly, a supportive failure mode. Having the wisdom to create a supportive failure mode is really rare.

I get anxiety -- anything that smacks of authoritarianism either makes me bolt, or makes me a snarling, spitting honey badger. I don't much like myself in those states. It does get better, with practice and patience and kindness to yourself.

If it is any consolation -- getting to good is always a Zeno's paradox process, but every time you halve the distance, it's that much closer.

The thing that worries me the most about all this, rather pathetic the more I think about it, is again the main stay of my problems, fear of rejection. Like you said I need to create a supportive failure mode, something I'm working on to some degree. The thing is rejection is inevitable, even fairly harsh rejection at some point. The trouble with those with social anxiety and other related conditions is they are always expecting the worst case scenario. As my father likes to say it's the old a coward dies a thousand deaths, the hero but one. Well those of us with anxiety conditions are constantly suffering liefs slings and arrows so to speak, even when they aren't present. Thing is when things go well I'm elated and buoyed up, when the inevitable rejection does occur though my mind is primed to overreact 10x. This is why I almost always have major set backs and return to a state of dismal depression, I've been suicidally depressed in the past. However this time I believe I've made some concrete changes that are different, I'm also on some medication that for once seems to be making a difference. All I can hope for is that I am strong enough and braze enough now to go out and actually face life, something most people do without so much as batting an eyelash (not that its easy for them I know). Going back to university again this September is going to be a real measuring stick for how far I've come.

Thanks for indulging me in this, I've gone far off topic and fear I've scared you off lol.

In regards to wandering eyes, I would think almost every guy would be guilty of looking some time or another. However, if that "wandering" involves more than that, I don't know; most I know have not done that. Suspected, but none that I know for certain.

Here's the deal. I don't think I will ever go for a woman who is not confident enough to trust me not to cheat.
Generally, when I fall, I fall hard for someone. I tend to make them my world, and I just don't really look. I try to make sure that they know, that they are the only one. So, I've never had any one complain about me in regards to this. My ex does say, I was the one that treated her best, we were just very young and she didn't know what she wanted then.

As for many others, I have had friends which bordered close to being more. However, I didn't allow it to be more since with some it is like walking on egg shells, and unfair. It causes friction and the feeling of being trapped.

When a woman basically condemns a guy thinking that they are cheating just because their eye wandered now and then, or is thinking about it, it breeds resentment for both. Please note, sometimes, especially now, I apologize but it is true, that some of it is a reflex. The way a person dresses provokes reactions, they can be unbidden, and people don't act on it, but it does happen. So say, me, when doing a 15K, sometimes, it is just very very damn hard not to look. I'm sorry, but it's true. Consider it an appreciation of someone's pulchritude.

I am sure girls do it too. Those that are being honest would tell me it is so.

In that sense, we have to be able to rein in our jealousies because a look is just a look. It is not as if it means they will see that person again. So, if I am with someone, if she points out a guy looking hot, or tells me a celebrity crush or whatever, that's fine with me. I don't even mind if other guys ogle her while with me. I mean, she's with me, go suck it suckas. Going to them though and flirting is a different thing.

So as a guy, I tend to try to make sure if I am with someone, I make sure I help them deal with their insecurities. However, it takes a while for me to be with someone and I lost friendships of some who wanted to be more. Trust goes both ways, I expect her to be faithful and I will be. I just don't want to play those jealousy games and making someone feel entrapped with indignation when one hasn't done anything.

Besides, come on... Some people really should consider that most guys, especially when they have been in a relationship for a while could not attract any of the women they look at. They just end up looking creepy most times.

They had one brief chance encounter, and (he said) she flirted with him.

Yes, he made this boast right in front of Grandma. Repeatedly.

edit: then again, he also claimed to have invented the net behind goalposts at football games.

We like to bust on each other about silly things!!

as are both of my sisters

over my father's suspected philandering.
We were catholic so divorce was out of the question.
I always wished one of them would die or move or something.

Then when I was in college I was working for my father at his gas station. He stopped in one evening and started talking and out of nowhere he started talking about all the affairs he had while we were growing up. Jesus- that was about the last thing I ever wanted to hear. And he was proud of himself.

He was past 50 then and was slowing down. He and my mother finally settled into a marriage for about 5 years before she died of cancer.

It's sad how strict religious moral values can do hurt families by forcing people to stay in situations that are killing them and those they love around them. I'm sure if you parents could have divorced things might have turned out happier for you and the all 3 involved. Similarly with families that can't tolerate homosexuality due to religion etc. People are forced to live a lie for decades in order to stick with their family. It's very sad. Sorry to hear this.

That's what we do as humans.

Look but don't touch is a good rule.

at least with my mom and at one point after they divorced, I remarked that I needed a Rolodex to keep track of his various dates. That got me smacked and told that I wasn't smart enough to have come up with that by myself.

When my mom told my maternal grandmother that she was considering a divorce, my grandmother's advice was to just have affairs as it was easier. I'm guessing she wasn't entirely faithful to my grandfather.

But the worst of my dad's wandering eye was when he commented on the breastage of one of my cousins, who was not only related to him, but also decidedly underage. That was one of the last straws of me not talking to him any more.

I'm quite certain he had an affair with his secretary. I'm actually proud of him for that. Mom was a catholic nutbag.