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Related: Culture Forums, Support ForumsSt. Paul and gangsters? I'm reading a book taking place in 1931, and the narrator
talks about St. Paul being full of gangsters and criminals.
Whoda thought?
cyberswede
(26,117 posts)Des Moines, Iowa even had them.
http://www.iptv.org/iowapathways/mypath.cfm?ounid=ob_000162
JNelson6563
(28,151 posts)Now the gangsters sell different drugs. The more stuff that is illegal the more crime/gangs will flourish.
Julie
Morning Dew
(6,539 posts)The police basically said, "don't bother us and we won't bother you".
Many of the famous gangsters of the era spent time in St. Paul - Dillinger, Ma Barker, Machine Gun Kelly and Baby Face Nelson among them.
cyberswede
(26,117 posts)Boos your tour today!
http://www.twincitytrolleys.com/page/twin_cities_gangster_tours
Morning Dew
(6,539 posts)Good to see you, cyberswede!
cyberswede
(26,117 posts)MrsMatt
(1,660 posts)has a gangster ghost.
I used to work in the Landmark, and know many people who had encounters with the ghost.
Morning Dew
(6,539 posts)He crossed the line into real trouble when he joined the violent Barker/Karpis gang, and wound up being a lead figure in two kidnappings: William Hamm (of Hamms Beer) in June 1933, and Edward Bremer, a banker, in January 1934. The gang raked in a total of 300,000 clams! However, a high priority was placed in capturing them, because Edward Bremer Sr. was a friend of President Roosevelt. Jack Peifer tried to talk "Doc" out of this later caper, but he didn't win that argument. He was caught along with "Doc," and Alvin "Creepy" Karpis, and was convicted in room #317 of his involvement. After Charles Lindberghs son kidnapping and death in 1932, tough new penalties were created for this type of crime. Jack was facing stiff new penalties for his involvement, with plenty of hard time ahead of him: 30 years in Leavenworth Prison. Jack Peifer couldn't face it and killed himself in his jail cell, by swallowing potassium cyanide.
hermetic
(8,308 posts)I worked in the Landmark for 10 years, ending in 2004. COMPAS. Never encountered a ghost but the storage rooms on the top floor always had a creepy feeling about them. And the elevators were always doing weird stuff. I loved that building. My office had a turret!
rurallib
(62,416 posts)I don't have details, but stories are that it was quite the hangout for badguys.
On a personal note I went to a twins game with my parents in 1965. My parents never got motel reservations (stupid thing to do they said) so we eventually ended up in a hotel in downtown St.Paul around midnight - the American Legion was having their convention in Minneapolis and all that was left was the worst of the worst.
We had no AC - we were on the 5th floor and had to have the windows open. The shootings, the cop cars and the trolleys dropping their connections kept us up all night. Another truly unforgettable trip with my parents.
I was raised in St Paul. Trolleys were gone long before then. Shootings? Come on... it was nothing like that in downtown St Paul Minneapolis maybe but not St Paul.
rurallib
(62,416 posts)but the Twins moved there in '61.
My dad would pull off these 'business trips' to see baseball games.
after the game he ended up driving all over the area before he ended up in downtown St. Paul (pretty sure it wasn't Minneapolis) at some rickety old hotel.
It was past midnight, we had to have the windows open. We had to have a cot brought up for me at an extra cost (he bitched about that) . I remember laying by that window and seeing the sparks from the trolleys once.
There were gunshots @ 1AM shortly after we finally shut the lights out and once again @ 3AM. Seemed like cop sirens ran all night.
Now that I think about it it must have been '61 or '62.
We had center field seats because my cheap old man wouldn't pay for good seats. The outfield stands were like HS bleachers. Porta-potties were the facilities. We did see the Yankees that night and I had a great view of Mantle's back
All in all it was a night I could never forget.
Frosty1
(1,823 posts)"In 1961 the Twins finished the season with a record of 70-90, good for seventh in the American League, which had expanded from 8 to 10 teams during the 1960-61 off season. It was the franchise's first season in Minnesota after 60 seasons in Washington, D.C. The Twins played their home games at Metropolitan Stadium."
"Streetcars were more expensive to run than buses. There was money to be made from scrapping the cars and infrastructure and substituting a lesser service, and that is exactly what happened. Ridership dropped dramatically. By 1954 it was down to 86 million and the streetcars were gone."
http://www.trolleyride.org/History/Narrative/TC_Transit.html
rurallib
(62,416 posts)Must have been '61 when we went which makes sense since I would have been 11.
Guess my memory of the trolleys is faulty. That night was full of noise and lights and sirens.
When the Twins moved in the Met was far from finished. Think it had been a AAA park previously and they only had the bleachers in the out field that were quite rickety.
Well, I sure do remember the sirens and the shooting.
Frosty1
(1,823 posts)in those days St Paul had a much more small town feel to it. Crime was relatively low so a shootout would have been a big news deal. Not that it couldn't happen mind you, but it was a much more likely scenario in Minneapolis. I too worked at the Landmark Center when it was still just the old Federal Court Building. It was a little bit spooky but I never saw a ghost.
rurallib
(62,416 posts)My dad used to take similar trips into Chicago. During those trips we would end up in some absolutely scary places also.
So maybe over the years I have merged Chicago memories with TC memories.
I am fairly sure it was '61 or '62. We sat in miserable bleachers (permanent outfield seats would come later). My Dad made a "business trip" to visit Super Valu HQ and then we went to the ballgame.
Then he went looking for a place to stay after the game and eventually we ended in St. Paul. Probably not the one I remember. It was hot, no AC, that night so no one slept well. So no doubt I could have mixed memories with a couple of similar trips to Chicago.
Funny thing, I was young enough that I totally trusted my parents. Now when I think back, they put us - me in particular - in some scary situations.
Thanks for the help. Hope I didn't bug you too much
Frosty1
(1,823 posts)so I have no idea what it looked like. I always thought St Paul was a pretty quiet city unlike Mpls. I remember my Mother and grandparents talking about the streetcars but they were gone before I was aware of them. You didn't bug me at all. It's just that your memories were so opposite of my experience of St Paul. I also was 11 in 1961.
Taverner
(55,476 posts)Couldn't ask for a better location
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,719 posts)complete with gang shootouts, hookers and speakeasies. http://www.minnesotamonthly.com/media/Minnesota-Monthly/April-2007/Crime-Capital/ There was a whole labyrinth of caves near the Mississippi where they'd hide out. There is even a "gangster tour" where you can see the caves and what's left of the whorehouses. http://www.wabashastreetcaves.com/gangster.html
Frosty1
(1,823 posts)She told stories of what it was like in the 30s. There was a big shootout at one of the old places on lower Payne Ave. I'm not sure if it was a restaurant or a bar. Must have been exciting times.
Generic Brad
(14,275 posts)This is the heroin capitol of the USA these days. Where there are drugs - there is organized crime. This is also a hub for human trafficking. Those businesses don't run themselves.