However, one of its tenants is giving up control to a higher power.

There's these folks:

http://www.sossobriety.org/home.html

I will forever be shamed.

Just clarifying. If I misuse a word I like people to correct me.

Embarrassed is the better word. I do know the difference between tenant and tenet and actually appreciate that you pointed it out.

As I get older, I find I make more mistakes like that accidentally.

Works for me...

One thing, though. There are groups all over at all times of the day (depending on your location, of course). All groups are just a little bit different, though. As in anything else, each group has its own personality and dynamic. They think of the Big Book as a kind of alternate Bible, full of stories and not a little bit of wisdom. It is a good idea to attend several different groups and see if you find a fit. They have local boards that can help you find additional meetings. They also have an on-line presence.

"Self help group" is a bit of a misnomer. AA is a peer support group for handling alcoholism. They can work, if you buy in and work the program. It's not for everyone. It's difficult to say just how effective they really are because they don't keep records about members. In fact, as it says in their Preamble, read at most meetings, the only requirement to become a member is a desire to stop drinking.

They don't really do "controlling" of drinking problems. They are about quitting, completely. However, one can attend meetings, and still reap many benefits just from the friendships and connections you get from them. You can just listen, if you want, especially at what they call "open" meetings. "Closed" meetings are for those who admit to being alcoholics and have a strong personal desire to stop drinking.

The Higher Power thing is kind of a non-denominational "god" figure that most use as a kind of spiritual compass. Because this is America, and Christians are numerous, most AAs you meet will tend toward a "Christian" idea of god, but good groups kind of discourage bringing in too much theology aimed at a specific religion or sect.

I did AA for a while, and it helped me stop drinking. I haven't been to a meeting in a couple of years, but have been thinking of going back for a couple of meetings, just as a stress relaxant. It can actually help.

Plus I forgot to mention I take 2 Paxils every day also.

if you drink alcohol often and sometimes too much, you should definitely start tapering off the Paxil. Ideally talk to a doctor, but if you don't want to do that, get a pill cutter and drop back real gradually by cutting like a quarter tab off your dose every couple weeks.

My opinion, backed up by 2 acquaintances who committed suicide, is that SSRIs + alcohol = death sentence. There are many other ways to treat depression. I tried Paxil briefly and decided it wasn't for me, and tapered off as I described (after discussing with my doctor). As it turned out my real issue was anxiety and once that was treated I didn't have a serious issue with depression.

OTOH, if for your particular case Paxil is really indicated, then you need to stop drinking. Since stopping Paxil is probably easier than stopping drinking ....

(Disclaimer, of course: I'm not a doctor and this isn't medical advice, just intended to be life advice. Any doc will tell you that booze and SSRIs don't mix. Unfortunately too many patients don't listen to them.)

AA does NOT have a religious canon.

Last edited Wed Jan 29, 2014, 07:10 PM - Edit history (1)

I tended talk a little more and one person would raise their hand and say you need to let other people talk. Maybe a lot was coming out making it about me possibly, which I didn't mean to. Or I would ask a certain person about something they had said but a hand would come up and they would say that's enough it's not your turn. It was my first time ever at an AA meeting. Most of the people have been sober 5 to 28 years. I'm still drinking a little, slowing weaning myself off beer. I had been drinking 7 or 8 beers every day now since May. I've been laid off for a little over a year. Now I'm drinking since Sunday 4 or 5 beers a day. They just seemed so sad and down. They were drinking a whole lot more than I was. Some were drinking a case and a half a day. A bottle of Vodka or more a day or a bottle and a half of Whiskey everyday. But now I've been taking 3 Xanax's a day for 10 years now. Not when I was drinking but a few hours before and after I had my last beer. One woman asked me is he a local Doctor and I just replied Yes... and they waited about 10 seconds and they said Oh Ok. Then we all stood up in a circle holding hands and said The Lord's Prayer which is fine. I am a Christian I believe in God but not real active in any Church the past few years. That's about it for now.

listen to what I have to say.

This is coming from someone who has been there and back. I may get a little rough with this as there is a lot I would like to tell you but first you need to hear my rant.

So, you are drinking about a 6-pack a day and popping Xanax and think maybe you'll just show up at an AA meeting and check it out. And now you come here and ask what's up with this group? Why were they treating me this way? I'm kinda surprised you lasted the whole meeting.

You were getting good advice from them. Sit down and shut up. You need to be clean and sober at least a month before you open your yap in a meeting. That's not a rule, that's just because you weren't listening to the people who were trying to help you. They were probably a little pissed off that there was a drunk in the room taking up their time.

So keep showing up for the meetimgs, go to 2 or 3 a day. It's not like you don't have the time. Put down the bottle and the pills. If you feel like a drink, find a meeting. Then find a sponser, all you have to do is ask at a meeting and someone will step up. Do everything he/she tells you. Get thee back to church. Find one you feel comfortable in and confide in the pastor about your desire to quit drinking. Did I mention go to the meetings?

Embrace the people who step up to help you. There is nothing you have done that they can't top. I'm going to stop here as you now have what you need to do first, once you get that taken care of, check back in and I can fill you in on the rest.

Then me keep insisting I'm not really drinking a whole lot compared to other people I've worked with or have known.

who was a nearly dead person due to alcoholism. He kept saying he wasn't drinking a lot.

A shrink told me when one drinks a lot, an area of the brain becomes affected and the person really does think the nonsense he's spouting is the truth. That's why an alcoholic can stand in front of you, smelling to high heaven of alcohol, and say he hasn't had a drink in weeks, and expect you to believe him.

you've taken the most important - and possibly hardest - step in your recovery - admitting you have a problem and being willing to do something about it....you sound like someone who IS willing to listen and I urge you to continue working on yourself....and remember, someone is always here on DU

that you are comfortable with. All will be different.

at once?

and drinking every day, I suggest you speak with your prescribing physician and ask him/her to find for you a medical program/hospital where you will be monitored and cared for upon your immediate withdrawal from these substances. Following up with AA will likely be an option, maybe required, AFTER you are 'sober.'

Alcoholism is a congenital condition, and must be addressed wisely and constantly.

http://www.lakesidemilam.com/

as kindly as possible. You say that you are only drinking a "little" but to you a little is 4-5 beers + meds per day. Sorry if this offends but that is not a little. It may not be "a lot" by others definition, but is certainly is not a little. A "little" is 1 beer every two or three days.

If you want to stop drinking then you will have to make a decision to do so. Nothing in this world is perfect. But we do know that AA has been around for quite some time and has success from time to time. For now take the good with the bad and put aside your little issues with the program and take in the big picture. True, those who are reformed from a particular undesirable behavior can be overbearing at times but your problem isn't them, rather your problem is your drinking and your attitude.

To use the example of this forum, everyone looks a new posters with a low post count with skepticism. Why would it be any different at an AA meeting? You have to prove to them that you are worthy of their time and energy, they owe you nothing. You have to show them that you are serious and not there just to make your family happy or because a court is forcing you.

Earn your time to speak at meetings. Earn it by putting forth the effort. If you are drinking 4-5 beers/day then you are still drinking. If you are drinking 1 beer/day, then you are still drinking. Go a week without any beer, then you are sober.

Harsh I know, sorry again if this offends.

But you seem aware that you're doing a little too much, and that it's difficult to stop. Ironically, IIRC benzodiazepines are (or were, in the past) often used to treat alcoholism, but for someone who seems to have a problem with both, I'm not sure what to say.

I also don't subscribe to the 12 Step philosophy myself, despite having had substance abuse issues of my own - which I'm still on meds (buprenorphine) for - I have no desire for "perfect sobriety" whatever the hell that means. I still drink beer and smoke weed, but at least I'm not shooting/snorting anything anymore.

Like other people are saying, though, you might want to give this group a chance - 2-3 more meetings maybe, at least - or else try to find another one that fits you better. Or do like I did and go see an addiction specialist, who might be able to help you adjust your meds and so forth.

Either way, good luck!

like people listing what they drink (or eat or use depending on which 12 step group you go to) just because even hearing the name can be a trigger for people.

AA is a great place of support but if you feel like you need to talk more about yourself, then I would suggest supplementing with a substance abuse counselor if you can get one.

Good luck on your journey to recovery!

Seriously.

I f you stop Xanax cold you are very likely to have a "psychotic episode". Benzodiazepines have a different withdrawal mechanism than opiates.

You absolutely need to see a doctor before cessation of Xanax. It is extremely dangerous.


AA can work. Be patient, give it time, go to meetings and LISTEN.

("Not to be confused with Narcotics Anonymous or Nar-Anon.&quot

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narconon

Narconon International is a substance abuse treatment program[1][2][3][4] developed by L. Ron Hubbard, the founder of Scientology.[5]

not intimately knowledgeable but know the history since Dr Bob hails from my area... I have known regulars and as with any group, it is helpful for some, not so for others

http://www.drbob.info/

When I went to AA meetings I went to quite a few different meetings in a short period of time. You get to check out all types of people, and maybe find a group you like more than others. I also hung out, on the front steps after the meetings, out for coffee, etc. That is where you can do more talking if you choose.

I don't think I accepted everything I heard, but little bits and pieces here and there started to make a lot of sense. So I kept going to meetings.

For me it was a good thing. Don't want to get preachy, but what was going on in my life wasn't working, so AA was pretty much a life saver.

GOOD LUCK TO YOU!

many years ago. But after awhile I couldn't take it. It seemed like they preferred that all your friends should be in AA - um, sorry - that wasn't going to happen. I DEF couldn't handle the higher power thing. I quit going after about 6 months and haven't looked back. Still haven't drank either.

They do help a lot of people (at least for awhile) but I did feel like they were a bit cultish. The sayings alone got to me. Plus I'm a bit of a loner and I was not even close to comfortable "sharing my story."

But there are other groups that are not so centered on have having a higher power as mentioned above. My parents each had 30 years of sobriety because of it.

Old timers are used to bullshitters and liars because addicts lie. They call you on it. It is tough love. If you can't fool them it helps you to stop fooling yourself. Sometimes it's kind to be cruel.

All groups have their own dynamic. Try different ones until you find a home group that fits your style. Get a sponsor.

You don't sound like you need medical detox but benzodiazapines like Xanax have a half life that can make withdrawal tricky. It could lower your seizure threshold after you go a couple of weeks without it. So taper off that.

Pretty sure you can cold turkey off a 6 pack a day without much trouble. I saw a lot more difficulty with patients who drank a case or a 5th a day over and extended.amount of time.

90 meetings in 90 days is a good start.

We have a group here that some of us visit. You will probability do your first 3 steps at treatment and be expected to finish with a sponsor in regular AA. It really does work.

My brother has 30 yrs sober in AA. He started drinking and drugging as a teen, started freebasing right before he got sober for good.

Don't overthink it.

First things first.

Hey G.W., how ya doing?

Other than that, I'm snarky. And you?

Leaving So Cal to do a there and back, Chicago run. 75 here in L.A., -11 in Chi town..

Check out a few different meetings in different locations. They tend to have slightly different "flavors".

Good luck.

to accept that they have no power over alcohol. That they cannot ever control their drinking. Since I am agnostic I made my higher power nature. It works for me. I reccomend that you go back and work the steps.

who has transformative power and agency to remove the compulsion to drink.

This is the basis of the AA program as described in the first 164 pages of the Big Book.

Nothing more, nothing less.

But don't be mistaken, it is a living God who the alcoholic calls upon the remove the compulsion.

and there is only one program, and it is contained within the first 164 pages of the Big Book.

You have to be careful with all the varying flavors of "the fellowship" out there. Some of the groups are very spiritually sick.

suggested that anyone who's thinking about it should go to meetings at a few different venues and see which feels the most comfortable.

addiction. After a while, I would think you'd want to re-build your new life, but not everyone does. Some stay stuck in other people's misery.

So, use it to re-program your habits and then use the freedom to find solutions to your underlying problems.

I can understand the "lesser evil" argument - I've done that myself, with pot versus opiates - but excessive dependence on the 12 Steps is still addiction in some form, if less harmful than alcoholism. But ultimately, as always, people should do whatever works for them.

This week now that you've mentioned it.

but many on my family do or did, including my ex. I tried Al-Anon for a while (meetings for family of alcoholics) and went to a few AA speaker's meetings with my brother in law, who was also an alcoholic. I found the meetings great and empowering, maybe not for the reason I was supposed to. I just found there were things in my life that I was super embarrassed about (screaming matches, having to drag a visibly and loudly drunk husband out of a wedding or work function, etc.), and when I listened to other people's stories, I felt "my life isn't so embarrassing, these people have been through way worse than me," etc. And I figured if they could make it through, so could I. And I left more ready to face my challenges. Anyway, it isn't a cult. And not all meetings say the Lord's Prayer. Some just say the Serenity prayer, which is not overtly Christian. Could be any god, including the flying spaghetti monster. Also, some meetings do just give a weird vibe. There is dysfunction everywhere, including in AA. So don't go back to those. Good luck! It's a tough road and one thing I have learned: you can't do it by yourself.

It totally becomes addictive. Many, if not most, of the people I met wouldn't know what to do without the meetings.

I hate meetings. I hate anyone who has a program of recovery. To all who come in contact with me, I wish you death and I wish you suffering.

 Allow me to introduce myself. I am the disease of addiction. I am cunning, baffling, and powerful. I have killed millions and I am pleased.

I love to catch you with the element of surprise. I love pretending I am your friend and your lover. I have given you comfort, have I not? Wasn't I there when you were lonely? When you wanted to die? Wasn't I there when you called on me? 

I love to make you hurt. I love to make you cry. Better yet, I love to make you so numb you can neither hurt or cry! You feel nothing at all! This gives me true glory.

I give you instant gratification and all I ask of you in return is long term suffering. I have been there for you always. When things were going right in your life, you invited me. You said you didn't deserve such things and I was the only one that agreed with you. Together, we were able to destroy all the good things in your life. 

People don’t take me seriously. They take heart attacks, strokes and cancer seriously. Fools that they are, little do they know that without my help, some of these things would not take place! I am such a hated disease, yet HAVE I EVER COME UNINVITED? You invite me in.

So many have chosen me over reality and peace.

 More than you hate me, I hate all of you who believe in a twelve step program. Your program, your meetings - they weaken me and I can not function in the manner I am accustomed to.

 Now I must lie here quietly. You don't see me, but I am growing bigger than ever. When you only exist - I MAY LIVE - but when you LIVE - I only exist. Either way, I am here quietly waiting for you to forget about the power I have over you. 

Until we meet again, if we meet again, I wish you suffering and death. Death physically, mentally, emotionally, and spiritually. It's all death to me. No matter what you choose to call me, I AM your worst enemy.

(To anyone who has problems seeing addiction as a disease - no problem. Substituting the word phenomenon changes the message not one bit.)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

On the rare occasions when people ask me what AA is like, I tell them that it's a program designed to help people stay clean and sober through personal growth - which takes place via self-examination/confrontation in a loving and supportive environment. The object is not simply to "put the plug in the jug", but rather to develop new ways of thinking (positive!) that fortify sober living rather than the skewed thinking that leads us to attempt escape.

As you are a Christian, Arnold, you should have no problem finding meetings that feel right. As others have alluded to, different meetings have different cultures. I went to my Agnostics/Atheists meeting this morning and was asked to lead. It was a very productive meeting for me, as my topic dealt mostly with the fact that I've been retreating into isolation lately. (Which is one reason I recently joined DU!)

My advice would be to stick with it. With slightly over 27 years clean and sober I still go for the wisdom and reminders I get at meetings.

Last edited Mon Feb 3, 2014, 12:54 PM - Edit history (1)

earlier and need to get back into it. Maybe start being more active in the Church like I use to be.

My first NA (Narcotics Anonymous) meeting for my Xanax and Paxil addiction.

I have a loved one who benefited greatly from AA -- the second half of his life was a gift to all of us, thanks to AA.

for the first time in 27 years of sobriety. It floored me.

By that I mean that a purely coincidental change from a day shift to a swing shift meant that I started coming into work quite loaded - and as a consequence got intervened on at work. I was given an ultimatum - go to in-house treatment or you're gone. A great counselor explained to me that I didn't need to be a Christian for AA to work for me. I had stayed away during my descent because I figured it to be - not entirely incorrectly - a Christian outfit that didn't want me around.

Some meetings have a lot of "God talk" and others not so much. And the number of Atheist/Agnostic meetings is growing as the nation becomes more secular.

"I know if I needed such a program I'd run for the door as soon as they started talking about higher powers (I'm basically a stereotypical angry atheist)."

Well - no disrespect intended, but you get willing to at least temporarily set aside issues like religion when you're faced with death. I was.......and I'm awfully glad I did. Now I go to one Freethinkers meeting a week and another where there's not much preaching. Working well for this former basket case.

but they lose with my higher power stuff and the vocabulary such as "taking inventory" and "dry drunk" and am against the whole one size fits all approach to recovery. Somethings work for some people that don't work for others, I think if someone feels they'd rather cut back to drinking socially or a beer here or there and if they can do it, whatever works. I think AA is strictly abstinence. Or say someone wants to cut back on hard stuff and stick with weed, I think that is an acceptable approach while those groups want you to stay away from everything even if it wasn't your drug of choice.

The point is most places you go to get treatment incorporate the steps like its the only way. Some could use for psychiatric reasons then they need mental health treatment as well as counseling but not one without the other for example.

but AA is good for the hopeless alcoholic of the Big Book description.

it is a congenital condition, and survival demands complete abstinence from alcohol for one's entire life. AA provides one of several approaches to survival.

http://www.lakesidemilam.com/

are indicative of black and white thinking.

Are you absolutely certain that NO ONE EVER has matured out of their addictions?

about which I've learned through educating myself, and observing close friends and family members. About it, I am absolutely certain.

it's through your experience and the anecdotal references you've gathered from your close friends and family members.

It certainly doesn't mean that NO ONE (NOT ONE PERSON EVER) matures out of alcoholism or alcohol addiction.

Or (gasp!) that some people can even learn to MODERATE after going through what some might consider alcoholic drinking patterns.

self-fulfilling prophecy, etc.

drank a lot when they were younger, and cut way back as they matured. But that's a very different thing.

The efficacy of AA is misrepresented by AA as a function of how many people go vs how many people quit. If you make the decision to go to AA, you're already in the subset of all alcoholics that are the most likely to quit. The vast majority of people who do quit drinking do so with no assistance. Compared with people who just decide to quit on their own, the efficacy of AA is ambiguous at best.

recognizing that you even have a problem is a step in the right direction.

It is a heritable genetic brain disease that there currently is no cure for. AA involved spirituality and a moral code of living has nothing to do with the genetic medical disease of alcoholism.

But people delude themselves everyday

One of the ways AA gets around saying its religious is by saying one can choose any higher power that one wants and it doesnt have to be a god.

I went into a meeting and told the group i was going to make a bottle of beer my higher power and rhen asked how thats supposed to cure me of drinking.

Jaws hit the floor and there was silence for about 5 minutes. I think it got through to some of the people there.

I walked out and never looked back

While I'll agree that alcoholism (and drug dependency) often do have a genetic component, it is not the only reason.

5 minutes of silence at a meeting because of something some asshole newbie said? Yeah, right. More likely a chorus of jeers and a hearty "Good luck with that."

One of the reasons for the "higher power" rhetoric is that most alcoholics have already made that bottle their higher power and just haven't recognized it.

I've already invested more in your bullshit response than you deserve. Have a good life.

they saved my brothers life.

If you don't feel comfortable, seek out another group. Groups are all self help and the emphasis varies from group to group. Just as people are unique, so are the groups. Find one that works for you. The higher power is God and if memory serves me, the book is the Alcoholic's Anonymous hand book (a handy little book to step by step get your life together). Stick with it, it is the most effective way for many to get their life back. I can't say enough good about them.

Last edited Wed Feb 5, 2014, 05:07 PM - Edit history (1)

meeting a lot more.

Try different groups while you continue with the NA group you like as your home base.

It's not my cup of tea because I don't believe in a "higher power". I went to some Adult Children of Alcholics and some Overeaters Anonymous meetings. I just don't buy into the idea that something else is in control of my problems.

What I have found that works better for me is SMART Recovery. It is based on cognitive behavior therapy and does not require a belief in a higher power. They have free meetings, although not in the numbers that AA has. You can learn more about it here.

http://www.smartrecovery.org/?gclid=CKafvJbouLwCFTJp7AodvhwAQg

Keep the faith. We are all rooting for you.
You are not alone, the feelings never go away.
But each day you become stronger and the temptations weaken.

I don't know if you noticed my thread on this same subject. A family member was just released from rehab with a new start, hopefully.

She was asked to do a 20 day program called "IOP" I think? Anyway, after that is complete a solid 90 days of AA. After this a regular diet of meetings is still needed of course.

Keep up the great work If she can do it anyone can.

I didn't stop drinking until I woke up in intensive care for the second time. AA wasn't for me, but that's not to say it won't work for you.

Hang in there! Life's worth living.

is no cult of personality. I was skeptical at first. But I worked the steps and got to a place where I have a good strong quit. And people were helpful. If you were in a cult people would be telling you how fantastic you and the leaders of the cult are. It isn't at all about being better than others. It is about accepting your weaknesses, admitting you are powerless and accepting the daily struggle that is sobriety. It gives one no easy answers. No it is not a cult at all. Each person must find their own meaning in life. It is work. A cult would spoonfeed you a delusion or ten.