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(6,107 posts)Greatly aids clarity.
Anti Oxford-comma folks are worse that Libertarians!
Avalux
(35,015 posts)How dare you say I'm worse than a libertarian!
hlthe2b
(102,357 posts)I have always used it... If, in the example given, I wanted to denote the need to bring Bob (who is a DJ) and another item or person, I'd merely use a dash to offset "a DJ" from Bob.
Is it really necessary to be that complicated?
Avalux
(35,015 posts)A conjunction is adequate IMHO, adding a comma is overkill. That's where I stand!
Laffy Kat
(16,386 posts)During my certification training, my instructors insisted its use for clarity, always. Go figure.
WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)Wounded Bear
(58,706 posts)Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)onehandle
(51,122 posts)The Oxford Comma provides clarity, just in case.
Ron Obvious
(6,261 posts)It clearly shows that the last item in the list carries equal weight to each item before it, and is not equal to the entirety of the preceding list.
Next, you should hear me go on about punctuation outside of quote marks (as God intended) and the hideous ambiguity of "not all that glitters is gold", and "I could care less". <-- punctuation outside the quote.
WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)Ron Obvious
(6,261 posts)You are, of course, correct.
WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)Sentath
(2,243 posts)NutmegYankee
(16,201 posts)I'm surprised there is even a debate.
cyberswede
(26,117 posts)UTUSN
(70,740 posts)My first indoctrination in grammar was to use it. Decades later, majoring uselessly in English Literature and History, I thought enrolling in a total, university Grammar class was going to make me an indubitable scholar, diagramming and tossing off Parts with glee.
Imagine my surprise (this was in the '70s) when this class turned out to be some abstract mumbo jumbo about "Descriptive Grammar" and "Deep Meaning" (of what was being communicated via language). We were told that Prescriptive Grammar, with rules of no-prepositions-at-end and such were old hat. More recently there was some article saying that rules like no-prepositions-end and no-splitting-infinitives were archaic junk based on the rules of Latin, which English did not derive from.
Anyway, even the guideline in the 2nd video of the o.p. about "consistency throughout the document" would seem to be rigid in itself. Clarity AND consistency? Or just clarity?
ashling
(25,771 posts)I also have to read & grade lots of critical thinking assignments
my observation is that consistency and clarity go hand in hand in regard to writing as well as citation.
UTUSN
(70,740 posts)throughout the document is almost as Old School as the old grammar rules. These appear to be anything-goes days and "enforcement" gives an image of a schoolteacher rapping knuckles with a ruler. I guess that workplace rules can be made by whoever controls the paycheck.
RebelOne
(30,947 posts)and the editors and I always adhered to the AP Style Book.
WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)will use "pope" while writing "Dalai Lama."
E.g., they will write "secretary of the Navy," though the title is a specific proper noun.
orleans
(34,073 posts)"i love coffee, baked beans, candy bars, coke and chocolate syrup"
the elimination of the comma lets readers know i love coke and chocolate syrup together.
the added comma for "coke," would tell readers i love coke. oh and i also love chocolate syrup
mahatmakanejeeves
(57,600 posts)it gets removed.
My favorite example from Eats, Shoots & Leaves:
"I would like to thank my parents, Mother Teresa and the Pope."
eppur_se_muova
(36,289 posts)kind of seals the argument for me.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)Vattel
(9,289 posts)Coventina
(27,172 posts)Please tell me that was the response you were looking for.....
Bucky
(54,065 posts)Sadly, no one's receiving.
WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)Coventina
(27,172 posts)After all, Vampire Weekend is included in the OP!
frogmarch
(12,158 posts)I don't often use it these days. I miss using it.
1step
(380 posts)What, in your opinion, is the proper way to question that bullshit assertion?
nirvana555
(448 posts)Bucky
(54,065 posts)So if you're quoting someone who questions the assertion, use the former. {?"}
If you're questioning someone who quotes the assertion, use the latter. {"?}
That said, there is the rule (which I dislike) that if the quote is part of an end-punctuation (comma, period, or Q-mark) then you put it all inside the quotey marks. Eg, Fred said, "to be or not to be," but he wasn't playing Hamlet.
If you're gonna use a comma there, it's clearly illogical to place it inside the quoteys, but it's required by all the style books (at least in the US). I feel the same way about parentheses as I do about quotations, but no one's listening to me.
ashling
(25,771 posts)or by bus?
reACTIONary
(5,771 posts)Recomends it, so I'm for it.
ashling
(25,771 posts)reACTIONary
(5,771 posts)MrsMatt
(1,660 posts)except in my work, the style and usage guide calls for AP standards.
So, I'm only allowed in personal writing, not professional.
Barbarians.
ashling
(25,771 posts)Hoyt
(54,770 posts)In some documents with lots of such lists, I might do it both ways to please both sides. Plus, I can claim I made a mistake if I run into an OCD grammar nut who can't read for content/ideas.
I do agree it's necessary for clarity at times.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)I write reports for a living.
It's considered "best practices" by my company.
magical thyme
(14,881 posts)I'm confused by people, who insert commas in totally wrong ways. And people, often from the same group I just mentioned who leave them off the second half of a parenthetical statement.
Lars39
(26,116 posts)[IMG][/IMG]
Bucky
(54,065 posts)You know, some times I just blow myself away with my own insights.
Bucky
(54,065 posts)Anyway, I've always called it the Bucky comma cause I've been using it ever since Middle School.
So screw Oxford
WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)UrbScotty
(23,980 posts)WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)it.
UrbScotty
(23,980 posts)Arugula Latte
(50,566 posts)ashling
(25,771 posts)are right
Owl
(3,643 posts)hunter
(38,326 posts)AngryAmish
(25,704 posts)ashling
(25,771 posts)are wrong. That is all.
Zavulon
(5,639 posts)WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)I had to ARGUE with a funeral director over the use of a comma in the newspaper copy of an obituary!
Tobin S.
(10,418 posts)I guess I'm pretty open-minded on the issue. I'm not much of a grammar Nazi. As long as I can understand what you are trying to say, I'm good with how you are saying it. I know when I first started posting on DU my grammar was terrible. I saved posts form back then, and it was pretty embarrassing to go back and see how bad of a writer I was. Nobody really gave me a hard time about it, though, at least not that I can recall, and I learned a great deal about grammar and writing as I read and posted here over the years. Going back to college helped a great deal, too.
I think the reason I was able to learn a lot from DU is that a lot of college-educated people post here. It may not always be a safe place for your ideas here, but it has proven to be, at least for me, a safe place to hone your writing skills.
Blue_In_AK
(46,436 posts)semicolons, also, properly used; and two spaces after a period at the of a sentence. I don't care what these young whippersnappers say.
raccoon
(31,119 posts)Paula Sims
(877 posts)Oxford Comma all the way!
(must have sound!)