IF it becomes more of an issue, there are many psychologists who specialize in hoarding / OCD behaviors. In addition, I'm sure there's a lot of info regarding hoarding on the web or in the library. Many times, it has to do with compensating for the loss of a loved one(?).

She hasn't lost anyone really close to her. However, her mother's mother died when my wife was a small child and my wife's mother went into a deep depression that lasted a long time afterward. I'm not sure that has anything to do with it, but I'm thinking it might.

Because when a parent has depression, the child basically loses that parent.

My father had depression and anxiety for many years during my childhood.

So even when he was there, he wasn't really there, you know?

I had a father. Most of the time I did not have a Dad.

I think hoarding is often tied to grieving -- the loss and sense of helplessness triggers the collection and control in a dysfunctional search for balance.

And as Elisabeth Kubler Ross elaborates, grieving is a physical (biological) as well as emotional process; as uncontrollable as puberty and as unique and personal as the relationship to that which was lost. We think of grieving as being associated only with the death of a person or companion animal but it can also be triggered by the "death" of possibilities as when our dreams, plans, goals and ambitions become unattainable. Grieving triggered by this kind of loss can be more long lasting although less acute especially when such ambitions are not obscured but rather are a part of our daily lives.


EKR:
http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/e/elisabeth_kublerross.html

It took her years to trust me and let me enter her home. It's very scary for her. One of her biggest fears is just the thought of anyone dropping by unannounced. Her kids cannot have friends over except on very rare occasions and some of those friends have blabbed to other friends at school.

Over time, I have become to understand that her father was a hoarder...loved to go look for antiques and such and couldn't let go of anything. She has a sister who is the same. I have spoken to the older child and the father but they are overwhelmed. I keep thinking if I lived there, I'd remove one bag a week without telling her but I know from watching the shows that the hoarder NEEDS to be a part of the process. I wouldn't wish this on anyone but her house burning down could be one of the best things to ever happen to her. I fear that something in the house is going to make them all sick. Be grateful your place is not dirty and that your wife will let you pick up some clutter.

We have tried lots of different strategies over the years but she needs therapy and won't go.

That's the word my wife uses when she thinks about cleaning up the place. It gets out of hand and she doesn't feel like she can do anything about it. I can do something about it, but she has to let me.

I keep telling her it's not that big of a deal. It will only take me a couple of days getting things back in order working by myself with lots of beer breaks. There's nothing she dislikes worse though than putting things in order and letting go of somethings.

of trying to engage the hoarder 'in the process'. I think much of that is done for drama on the program. I think the process is what's too overwhelming for the hoarder. It seems better to just separate them from the process.

I worked with a hoarder for many months clearing out his house as he wanted to sell it. 8 rooms filled to the ceiling, although much of it was actually organized into boxes. Sadly, many of those boxes contained the nutty things like plastic bottles, tupperware things, plastic containers, etc.

He was a genuine collector of comics, books and graphic novel ephemera. Once I'd sorted the actual trash from the items of some value, I still ended up with - wait for it -- 400 boxes of comics, collectibles, memorabilia and artwork. There is a collection of over 25,000 comics still being inventoried for auction 2 years later. I put most of the art work up for sale, and to date we've taken in about 50,000 euros.

There were so many boxes stored in one wing of the house that the exterior supporting wall was bowing outward. He has always claimed that the only reason he kept all the comics was because he didn't know what else to do with them. Thankfully he kept them in good boxes, in decent storage conditions.

Since he still absolutely loves his comics, I turned him on to the internet for downloading them, and now, he's still collecting them, but reading them on his kindle and storing them on a little external hard drive!

He recognized that he needed help and I made sure to acknowledge and appreciate that to him many times. He still doesn't really think he has a problem though. His way of getting help was to disconnect from it all, to pay me very well, and to put his complete trust in me to process the pile of crap for him, literally while he was out of the country. He had so much trash and garbage that he honestly didn't miss any of it, once it was out of sight.

The big light bulb came on over his head when I explained to him that rather than keeping all these things for himself, they could be recycled to people that really needed them. Using trigger words like 'recycle' and 're-homed' made a huge difference in his reluctance to part with useless junk. More importantly I didn't focus on what was valuable and what wasn't. 90% of it wasn't. I lied to him a LOT and told him that much of it went to charity, etc, but it really really was all useless trash that no one wanted. I kept for him what he could actually use, and then the actual collection, and that was it. The rest was hauled off.

The local trash collection came 3 different times to haul away the pile that stretched along the curb nearly 15 yards. They were pretty mad at me, but they understood and I tipped them very well.

We bought him a new apartment in another city. I made sure it's a strong building in case he starts hoarding again! He has serious sanitation issues as most hoarders do, and continues to hoard plastic bottles and containers. This new place has already descended into a sanitary condition that makes me vomit, so I've told him I can't visit him there anymore, just being brutally honest. But he is a really lovely person and a good friend. He remains grateful that I helped him out, and I feel good about what we achieved for him. I think hoarders need to be dealt with more brutally, and as in this case, removed from the situation to achieve the desired result.

I have hoarding tendencies I guess I'd call it. But I am able to purge or clean without great remorse.

And I can only imagine the actual treasure that gets tossed by people who do not know better when clearing a hoard. I appreciate your assessing the value before just pushing it to a dumpster.

Too bad most people in that situation shun social contact/ help just from fear the problem will be discovered. You did a very kind service to your friend-especially by being honest with them about the problem.

Welcome!

had a business relationship before. The main reason it all clicked is that I'm a life long horse-trader kind of person, haunting flea markets, car boot sales, buying, selling & trading pretty much anything, since I was a kid, always at a profit. It's kept me from becoming attached to material things, and made me a real pro at spotting the value in any goods, old and new.

Right now I'm into old gold and real estate, lol!

I do find though, that the nature of hoarding is about accumulating the useless. It seems to be some sort of self-worth thing, the lack thereof. 'Surround yourself with trash so you keep feeling like trash'... along those lines. I've never heard of a hoarder who was stockpiling Vermeers and Irish crystal. Just.... tupperware. Lots and lots of tupperware. I should have bought stock in that.

I think with these situations it's much better to just get right to the heart of the matter, in some cases, intervention style. No judgments, no accusations, just state the problem, propose a realistic solution, and for de-cluttering the hoard, remove them from the process. They get stuck going in circles otherwise.

Getting rid of the stuff does nothing in the longterm. I've seen the TV shows and I think they do too LITTLE therapy and counseling. TV is visual and quick and the healing process for a hoarder wouldn't be visual enough to make TV out of. I think hoarding is a manifestation of grief and depression, mostly a sense of loss, abandonment and longing. The urge to fill one's life with things that don't leave, finding value in things that have very little and identifying on a very deep level with animals and things that seem to need love.

You are truly a great friend to help with this! welcome to DU.

I decided that I'm not really a hoarder, just a clutterer.

I do tend to save useless stuff, but eventually I can throw it away.

There was one point where I was saving up turkey and chicken wishbones. I had a bunch of them. Saving them for some who-the-hell-knows-why reason. I did end up throwing them out and haven't done it again.

Watching those shows gives me mixed feelings.

On one side, I shake my head and think, geez, how could they save all that shit???

On the other side, when people come over to "help" clean up and they're seeing everything as shit, I want to bash 'em in the head.

Like there was one show where a lady had a bunch of knitting needles and the psychologist/organizer said why not just keep one pair and get rid of the rest...

And I thought, IDIOT!!! Anyone who knows anything about knitting knows that ONE PAIR of knitting needles isn't going to cut it when you need to make something with a certain size needle because that's what the pattern calls for.

I have bamboo crochet hooks in all different sizes. I have bamboo double pointed knitting needles in all different sizes. Wooden knitting needles, different sizes...circular bamboo and metal knitting needles all different sizes, and I just bought another set of bamboo straight knitting needles in different sizes.

What's the rationale for that? Well, if I'm using a pair of size 6 needles for a certain large project and in the meantime want to knit up something quick for a gift and it takes size 6 needles, I have spares.

Anyway.

Seeing as I do have clutterer tendencies, one of my big fears is that someday it could get out of hand and turn into hoarding.

Fair warning, though to anyone coming over to "clean" my space:

Touch my yarn and needles and I'll stick a big pointy one up their ass.

Note to self: Steer clear of Pipi's knitting stuff.

I guess my wife is more of a clutterer than a hoarder as well. I'm done with the living room. It took me about 2.5 hours while taking a few breaks. My wife gave me a directive much like the way you feel about your knitting stuff. She has art supplies that she used to make all kinds of things. I'm not to throw any of that away.

the art supplies makes sense to me too.

In the end, I guess it's about whether or not we use what we collect.


Some of those hoarders get me kind of frustrated with them when someone questions them on why they're keeping a toothbrush with a broken handle and about three bristles left. Oh, it might come in handy someday, is the answer.

Oh look! Over there! It's a pink polka dotted coffee cup shaped like New Hampshire! (toothbrush gets thrown away during the resulting distraction)

but I don't understand it myself.

She used to have trouble with anxiety, but most of that has subdued since she met me.

There are different types of hoarders. I'm the type that holds on to old items out of some perceived "kitcsh" or antique value, and things that can be repurposed for future use.

I am tired of the clutter and am in the process of purging my property. I plan on selling or giving away anything that has an actual value, and junking the rest. It will probably take me the rest of 2015 to do so.

and having a place so clean no one dares breathe.

I think it can be defined as clutter when it keeps you from doing what you'd like to do - you'd like to bake cookies, but all the counters are covered with things so there is no work space.

I think hoarding is when it starts getting stacked on the floor (not counting books!) and/or is unsanitary and/or the owner forgets what's there and/or never gets taken out of the shopping bag.

Some habits outlive their usefulness. My mother always saved old sewing patterns, but after a few years, they were out of date so she should have tossed them.

I don't understand hoarding, but I do understand cluttering. I'm a clutterer. In my case, at least, it's more a matter of not being disciplined or organized enough to sort the stuff out and get rid of it. The place isn't dirty, and I throw away trash and broken things; I just have too much damn stuff that I don't need or use. I have no particular attachment to most things and I'd be quite happy if someone just came in and took most of it away. Hoarders, on the other hand, can't bear to part with their stuff even if it's useless garbage. I'd guess that your wife isn't a true hoarder but still prefers to be in control of the process of getting rid of things; so as long as she trusts you and gives you permission to remove things you should be able to manage the clutter.

And then when you're finished you can come over to my place.

I'd say you are right. She just came home from work for lunch and viewed the progress. She was very happy with it.

I'm afraid there may be a charge to do your place seeing as how we aren't married and all. I don't charge too much, though. I'll take my pay in beer.

I'd say...scale of 1-5, level 4 hoarder...started after he went through something traumatic in his life

Like closets and the garage. I don't have a husband to clear out the stuff every now and then (I wish I did, good for you!), so I've had to force myself to do it. I'd rather be dragged behind a horse for 10 miles, I hate it so much.

I don't hate clearing it out because I'm attached to the stuff, I just don't know what to do with it and it takes time; my brain kind of malfunctions. It accumulates because I don't take the time to either dispose of it or find a place for it in the first place.

There are worse problems, believe me. It is really great that you can do that for your wife, and she allows you to do so.

She doesn't deal with it while it's a small problem for whatever reason. Then the problem gets larger and larger to the point where she feels too overwhelmed to do anything about it.

To someone like me, who doesn't have a problem in that regard, clearing everything out is not that big of a deal and can be done in a couple of days by one person not really working all that hard. To her it looks so bad that she doesn't know what to do.

We've got a nice house hiding under all of the clutter, and I'm going to re-introduce her to it over the next couple of days.

is to keep a designated bin in my closet. When I come across an item of clothing that doesn't fit, has a stain, whatever, I put it in there. When it fills up, I put the clothes in a bag to donate to charity. If you have a drop-off place near you, that might be best, so you can put the bag directly in your car and drop it off when you are nearby. If clothes/towels get too ratty to donate, I put them in a bag for the rag trade (Goodwill and other charities accept these -- stuff gets recycled into furniture stuffing, etc.). I would imagine if you put a box or bin in other parts of your home for other types of stuff to donate it might help too.

I get kind of overwhelmed trying to figure out how to sort and dispose of it all, and I often just give up and let it sit there until I'm able to force myself to tackle it again.

She has serious horder in her family. And she is a thrower outer. If I leave a piece of paper on the table she will throw it away. Doesn't matter if it is that important legal document I need in a couple of days, it will be gone. I discovered this soon after we married. Argued about it at first. Learned to deal with it.

I have a sister that is like your wife. The problem boils over into other areas of her life outside of her home, though.

She was the best Mom in the world, but a thrower outer raises hob with family history stuff.

It's great that she will let you get rid of stuff. Really, that is so much better than dealing with a real hoarder.

I'm somewhere in between, but now that I am older, I am making repeated passes through my stuff getting rid of a lot of it each time. And I never leave food around.

There is a tumblr site, http://unfuckyourhabitat.tumblr.com/ with photos people post about how much they clean up in ten minutes or so. It tends to reset my mind about what I can do and what orderly looks like.

What amazes me is how much of the stuff on the tumblr site is clothes not put away. My main problem is papers that I feel I have to go through because they might be important. That takes a lot of time .

I'm glad I posted this thread. It's turned into a productive little deal.

I think you are right and that she is more likely a clutterer from the way I've seen people describe it here. No worries, though. Here I come to save the day! Mighty Husband!

And, yes, you can do a lot of cleaning in a short amount of time. I tell my wife that, but it all just looks so overwhelming to her.

Good for you, helping her like this. And she's terrific to let you do it.

I tend to be a clutterer. Stuff will pile up a little and then it sits. And lo and behold, one fine day, I get a burst of energy and clean up like crazy.

Thank goodness there's no hoarding in my family. My mom is super organized, especially in her kitchen, and I learned to be that way too.

I watch the hoarding shows for about ten minutes and then start having flashbacks.


My mother didn't think there was anything wrong with her in the slightest. It was bad enough that there were paths through the house and I got sick and had to go to the doctor from all the dust around. Then the parents would look at me like I was crazy. There was no way to get her to clean up. When I climbed on top of a four foot tall pile of cardboard, went over to the window, opened it, and started throwing stuff out the window to be sorted, she eventually woke up from her nap, came outside and started growling at me like she was in The Exorcist, and I think she dissociated from the stress. She had no memory of this and I did not figure out that she had dissociated until a couple of months later.


I filled up a bunch of heavy trash bags and took them out to the curb, and she dragged them back in under the carport. This was about a week after she had gotten out of the hospital for surgery to clean out her carotid arteries.


That was in 1995. I was doing this in a 20 foot by 10 foot bedroom that was about five feet deep in junk. As I said, I had to climb on top of it.

All I could do was wait until she died to clean out the house. She died in 2002. She never thought she had a problem. I got a guy to come down that had an auction house and he filled up a 30 foot long gooseneck trailer with furniture and knick knacks. It took us six years of going to the house on weekends and throwing out and giving away stuff before we could retire and move in. And I still have a lot of stuff. I found some good stuff that was totally unused and hidden. I think there were about 5 generations of people living in the house before me, who all had the Depression mentality that you don't throw stuff away, you might need it some day.

The first person who wrote about hoarding was Don Aslett. He owned a janitorial service. He wrote books about how to clean efficiently. He had a chapter in one of his books about clutter, and started getting mail about it constantly. So he wrote books about how to sort your stuff. The first one was "Clutter's Last Stand" and there are others. I am a published author, by the way. He put one of my letters to him in his book "Clutter Free:Finally and Forever" anonymously. He's a nice guy. I've met him and he gave me a free copy of "Clutter Free:Finally and Forever", autographed, so I could discover, for myself, my delight at being a published author.

The book that gives you guidance about how to judge what to keep and what to throw out is called "Not for Packrats Only". I recommend all his books. They have funny cartoons in them so they are entertaining as well as useful.

I have clutter but I don't have filth. I get very uncomfortable in a house with lots of stuff in it. I have known people who don't even have a clean surface to stand and cook or eat from, and I don't know how they stand living that way.

Growing up, my mother took over one of the bedrooms as a junk room, in a 3 bedroom house, so I never got my own room until my older sister went off to college. I also could not have any friends sleep over, or have birthday parties and invite any of my friends. My sister and I slept in a queen size bed. Eventually my dad threw my mom out of his bedroom because of her junk and made her sleep in my old room. The isolation is a big part of the pathology of it. I'm still thinking about the family isolation in my situation.

I appreciate you posting here in my thread. Thankfully, my wife is not hell-bent on saving her useless stuff. For her it gets to a point where she can't stand it as well.

I've got everything cleared out now and my wife loves the change. We have reclaimed our house. I told her tonight that it's going to be this way from now on. We made a deal. I hate to go grocery shopping and I usually go with my wife. I told her that if she'll do all if the shopping say on a Saturday, I'll clean our house while she's gone. We've eliminated stress on both sides.

To repeat, if you need help on deciding what to sort, get Don Aslett's books.

I'm hoping to de-clutter this year. My parents were semi-hoarders of research material. My Father would at least keep it under control and go through and organize about every 6 months and he confined it mostly to his office. My mother on the other hand has become very OCD about it since he died 6 years ago. She has sticky notes all over the hoarded items that say that I cannot throw them out or give away. It's gotten worse the last couple of years as she has taken to making 2 or 3 copies of everything just to be sure she has it.

The guy hoarded diy/construction books and mags.

Had four rental properties he hadn't rented out for twenty years stuffed with stuff.

because I was not understanding like I should have been when I found out (by accident.) I cleaned her condo out three times, the last time, 6 and a half years ago when she died suddenly. She was finally dealing with her problems and was two weeks away from a final settlement of $500,000 from worker's comp. Such was life for my sister, who never married or had children.

Your description of your dinner party, from your link that took me here, brought back so many memories of my sister. She loved her condo and bought lovely and tasteful dinnerware and glassware. She had dinner parties with friends. At her funeral, some friends said those were the only dinner parties they ever attended in their lives. She had wonderful taste and sewed many of her own clothes. She hooked rugs, knitted, took up photography and loved dogs. Somehow it all got away from her and she ended up buried in stuff, working three or more jobs to pay for it all.

I love how you are with your wife, so kind and understanding. Good luck to you both.