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Related: Culture Forums, Support ForumsGame of Thrones 5.10 "Mother's Mercy" (spoiler alert)
Season finale tonight! Valar Morghulis!
Stannis marches. Dany is surrounded by strangers. Cersei (Lena Headey) seeks forgiveness. Jon is challenged.
NewJeffCT
(56,828 posts)Baitball Blogger
(46,711 posts)Solly Mack
(90,767 posts)At least she kept her sense of humor. (I'll boo-hiss myself)
Yavin4
(35,438 posts)Ready to go!
jakeXT
(10,575 posts)Cleita
(75,480 posts)Cersei does the naked walk of shame through Kings Landing. Arya will kill someone. In the book it was the Night's Watch bard, but since he wasn't in the TV series, it could be Ser Trent. The Sand Snakes do kill a Westero knight guarding Myrcella, but it could be Jaime instead, although I doubt it as in the books he comes in contact with Brienne again. Jon gets stabbed by his Night Watch mates, but we don't know if he dies. However, when I got to the end of what is there in the series, it seems like the Starks are getting offed one by one. Maybe it's the way their House ends. Perhaps the Targaryans rise again. Frankly, I'm getting tired of it and probably won't read on. I just don't care anymore.
NewJeffCT
(56,828 posts)called "Mercy" - in that chapter, Arya encounters Raff the Sweetling in a brothel in Braavos and slashes his femoral artery, killing him.
Cleita
(75,480 posts)In killing the bard she encounters the punishment of the kindly man by being forced to go blind. She still kills under orders but is not allowed to choose her own victims.
NewJeffCT
(56,828 posts)1) The "previously on Game of Thrones" leaked out from Australia for the final episode. Benjen Stark is featured prominently, so I guess the often unreliable IMDB listing of him appearing in episode 10 is true. He last appeared in Season 1, Episode 8. (Benjen is Ned Stark's younger brother...)
2) Looks like we'll be getting a cliffhanger ending as well - major spoiler at the link below. I've seen it enough times this past week that I believe it's legit.
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/game-thrones-season-5-finale-leaked-image-jon-snow-reveals-shocking-ending-watch-mothers-1506043
Solly Mack
(90,767 posts)jakeXT
(10,575 posts)Lord Varys is for example
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt3866862/fullcredits?ref_=tt_cl_sm#cast
NewJeffCT
(56,828 posts)Total viewers across all platforms through 9 episodes has already surpassed last year through 10 episodes.
http://watchersonthewall.com/ratings-intermezzo-total-viewership-already-reaching-last-years-record/
NewJeffCT
(56,828 posts)we know one mother is Cersei for tonight, who will also be asking the Mother's Mercy for her sins (The Mother being one of the 7 gods)
We'll also likely see the fallout with Shireen's mother, Selyse Baratheon
Maybe we'll see the Mother of Dragons - Daenerys.
Doubt we'll see Lady Stoneheart, even though it's another internet rumor.
DebJ
(7,699 posts)Solly Mack
(90,767 posts)Good.
Solly Mack
(90,767 posts)Solly Mack
(90,767 posts)Solly Mack
(90,767 posts)Solly Mack
(90,767 posts)Too good for him.
Solly Mack
(90,767 posts)Solly Mack
(90,767 posts)Solly Mack
(90,767 posts)Baitball Blogger
(46,711 posts)Solly Mack
(90,767 posts)Not sure what they jumped into on the show since the snow melted some.
Baitball Blogger
(46,711 posts)Solly Mack
(90,767 posts)herding cats
(19,564 posts)They're supposed to be trying to find freedom. Who knows what they'll find in the end, but they weren't trying to kill themselves.
Baitball Blogger
(46,711 posts)Solly Mack
(90,767 posts)Baitball Blogger
(46,711 posts)She is blind. I imagine that's her cliff hanger, and she is now up to where the books have left her.
Solly Mack
(90,767 posts)Iggo
(47,552 posts)Arya story picks up again halfway through book 5.
Solly Mack
(90,767 posts)Good thing it didn't last long. (I knew that was a bad kiss)
Baitball Blogger
(46,711 posts)Solly Mack
(90,767 posts)Not sure I care.
Solly Mack
(90,767 posts)Baitball Blogger
(46,711 posts)Solly Mack
(90,767 posts)Baitball Blogger
(46,711 posts)Is that Dany's old tribe?
Solly Mack
(90,767 posts)Solly Mack
(90,767 posts)Baitball Blogger
(46,711 posts)I wonder how they did that. I heard there was a stand in.
Solly Mack
(90,767 posts)NewJeffCT
(56,828 posts)during the filming, so I think they must have had a stand-in/body double. Great job by her, though. Proud to start, but barely hanging on at the end.
Solly Mack
(90,767 posts)Yeah. I was glad she held on as long as she did. Can't stand her but I dislike those Sparrows just as much. Maybe more.
Solly Mack
(90,767 posts)Baitball Blogger
(46,711 posts)Solly Mack
(90,767 posts)Baitball Blogger
(46,711 posts)Solly Mack
(90,767 posts)JustABozoOnThisBus
(23,340 posts)... a wooden water ladle upside the head!
Solly Mack
(90,767 posts)Solly Mack
(90,767 posts)Because the only reason to make someone walk naked through town is to get your own perverse rocks off.
As an aside, Cersei is walking rather proudly right now.
That might change with the crowd yelling at her.
Baitball Blogger
(46,711 posts)Where does someone like Cersei go after that?
Solly Mack
(90,767 posts)Unless the show changes that....or future books.
Baitball Blogger
(46,711 posts)clean-up of the religious fanatics.
Solly Mack
(90,767 posts)DebJ
(7,699 posts)Solly Mack
(90,767 posts)That red woman.
Baitball Blogger
(46,711 posts)He looks very different, and much taller
Solly Mack
(90,767 posts)herding cats
(19,564 posts)Ugh...he's going to be an interesting turn of events!
At least I can speculate on John snow's death this Summer now. I so didn't want him to wag into his wolf. Now I still have hope they can both exist independent of each other.
I one of the ones who believes JS is one of the three heads of the dragon spoke of in the prophesy.
Baitball Blogger
(46,711 posts)The Red Witch is in need of a new project and something wicked this way comes for Jon.
Match made in heaven.
Solly Mack
(90,767 posts)I hate, hate this part!
Baitball Blogger
(46,711 posts)Solly Mack
(90,767 posts)Just like watching Ned die even when you know it is coming.
DebJ
(7,699 posts)survived, but not with the treatment in the tv show..impossible. Right through the heart by Olly.
Solly Mack
(90,767 posts)Just not as Jon Snow.
Baitball Blogger
(46,711 posts)That would be the cushiest job ever if he got paid for playing the role of a corpse.
Solly Mack
(90,767 posts)does whatever he does to become whatever it is he becomes.
TDale313
(7,820 posts)Yes, the show seems much more... Definitive... Than the books did, but I find it hard to believe Jon Snow's story is finished, especially since we were told his parentage would play a big role.
TorchTheWitch
(11,065 posts)When he's lying in the snow you can see all the stabs are to his stomach. That's the only place where there is any blood.
Besides, the Red Woman is more powerful than Thoros of Myr, and I doubt it matters whether or not he's really really really dead or not. He isn't going to stay dead or he's not dead yet at the end of the show. The whole story line of the Wall, the Night's Watch, the White Walkers, etc. collapses without Jon Snow... there isn't any other character that is in any position to deal with that.
Him being really really really dead also kills Bran's whole story line... there's no one else Bran can "fly" to in order to help them save the realm.
It also kills the Red Woman's story line, and there's no other reason for her to have returned to the Wall other than to save Jon. She was so devastated when she got back because it finally dawned on her that Stannis is not AA returned, and she's responsible for all the deaths her mistake of believing it was Stannis who was AA returned and would save the realm from the Night's King and his White Walkers with their army of the dead. There was also the stare-down between the Night's King and Jon Snow that makes it apparent they meet again.
Kit Harington cut his hair the same length as he's done after every season before as well, and by the time he starts filming again it's grown back. Besides, his hair length doesn't really matter either.... Cercei just had all of hers cut off, and she's not going anywhere. He also got no send off party or gift after the season wrapped, and even the actors portraying minor characters always do.
Also, at the very end when you think he's dead his eyes lighten... when anyone dies their eyes don't do that, so something was happening there, and he was probably warging into Ghost perhaps with Bran's help.
Martin also goofed a long time ago and said that Jon Snow finds out about his parentage. That's another reason he's not really really really dead... that whole parentage story line means nothing with him being really really really dead.
Besides, the series is about "Ice and Fire". We already know Dany is fire, and it's obvious that it's Jon Snow who is ice. They're the two most important characters in the whole series for the books and the show.
Kit Harington as Jon Snow will be back and alive again next season.
Goblinmonger
(22,340 posts)If Jon Snow is dead, then the White Walkers fucking decimate Westeros. There will be no one to lead the charge against them.
herding cats
(19,564 posts)I haven't reread read that part of the books ever either. I just skip right over it, even if it was slightly different in the series the premise is the same. I hate it, too!
Solly Mack
(90,767 posts)herding cats
(19,564 posts)I think we both can speculate why. I don't really want him to take over his wolf, though. I want them both to survive.
Which I know isn't the most popular of choices.
Solly Mack
(90,767 posts)then I'm OK with that.
Remember Dondarrion - Thoros of Myr brought him back. The Red Woman practices the same faith.
herding cats
(19,564 posts)When Melisandre rode back into camp I literally stood up and said, "Oh, hell yes! I see how this could play out now!" In a room of three other people who hadn't read the books. They were pretty sure I'd lost it then. Which I had, because I'm normally very quiet an reserved.
Solly Mack
(90,767 posts)I was like, "Oh, OK, but how did she escape?"
herding cats
(19,564 posts)They always escape in the series! I'm hoping that gets resolved in the ending. Please, let that be resolved in the ending!
Solly Mack
(90,767 posts)I'll swallow hard.
I also want Jon to survive as Jon (whatever his last name will be or his new "title"
all these years and I'm still not over Ned's death....I can't take too many more Starks or half-Starks dying for good.
herding cats
(19,564 posts)Arya is one of my personal favorites from the books, and by extension the HBO series. I want her to be strong, but not "no one" per the Faceless Men's religion. Which is interesting in that it seems to encompass most/all other religions. John Snow is one of the good ones and I suspect of a bloodline to be a leader once Winter comes. How can they kill him off? If only it were so easy in A Song of Ice and Fire, right?
I'm completely in camp Arya Stark and John *insert whatever last name he resolves to here* until there's no hope left for either one!
As to Ned...who is ever over his death completely? I almost stopped reading then, if not for the fact that I still felt so much emotional investment to several other characters. Again, damn you GRRM, this time for being so good at your craft!
Solly Mack
(90,767 posts)herding cats
(19,564 posts)It was a totally unhealthy, one sided relationship.
Still, I keep hoping for the best, and dreaming of something better than what I know in my heart is going to come to pass. Still, after all these years, and I've been with the books since the first publication, I still hope.
OMG, am I a literary masochist? No, no, no! I'm a dreamer! Right?
Solly Mack
(90,767 posts)I am watching the finale again. I am a sad, sad creature.
herding cats
(19,564 posts)I'm already trying to figure out when I can schedule a marathon re-watch of the entire season!
Solly Mack
(90,767 posts)I'm also on another reading of the books. We're both hopeless.
You think Myrcella is dead? I think maybe, maybe not.
herding cats
(19,564 posts)And rewatch before a new series launch. Yeah, I'm that bad.
I never count a character as dead unless their head is being shown severed from their body in this series. Having said that, I don't know what long term purpose her living or dying might serve in the plot. So, we may have lost her. Which would only be sad because we only just started to like her...which is a recipe for death in GoT.
How about the Reek and Sansa arc tonight? It made me smile to think he'd found a semblance of himself again, and that she (Sansa) was was the one who helped lead him back to it. After all, they were children who basically grew up as siblings, if we pretend the whole 'he tried to steal her heritage from her' thing never took place. It's not as if that worked out well for him in the end or anything.
Much as I dislike Theon, I don't hate Reek. I'd like to see him earn back some of his self respect by helping Sansa.
Solly Mack
(90,767 posts)But if Reek regains his identity, you'll dislike his original self even as you celebrate Reek's victory. Best not to think on that too much. The head spins.
NewJeffCT
(56,828 posts)He may regain some of his former self, but the reason Ramsay cut off his member was because that was such an important part of Theon.
Baitball Blogger
(46,711 posts)Whatever he turns into next will be better than Theon, and has to be an improvement over Reek.
He already took the first step by saving Sansa.
Solly Mack
(90,767 posts)Gives me something extra to think about.
Thank you!
Solly Mack
(90,767 posts)Solly Mack
(90,767 posts)I agree she doesn't advance the story. Unless the writers of the show need her for some plot twist they've created. We know what Varys does in the books and why. Maybe he'll use her to advance his cause and set Cersei off the deep end.
Maybe her dying now would do the same thing.
But unless Myrcella is somehow, through extreme contortions in the minds of the shows' writers, yet another secret Targaryen, she's worthless to the story.
So many innocent victims in the Game of Thrones.
Solly Mack
(90,767 posts)leaves King's Landing, like in the books, to get away from her?
He goes off and does...who knows what? lol
NewJeffCT
(56,828 posts)Brienne and Lady Stoneheart?
No idea, though. He's in the Riverlands in the book as it ends, but was there for most of the book and never went to Dorne.
Solly Mack
(90,767 posts)But I think something is going to facilitate his leaving KL and the child's death might be the thing.
herding cats
(19,564 posts)Maybe he'll take Trystane with him in an attempt to save him from Cersei's wrath? Not that that's likely in this series, we're more likely to see his head on a pike than see him be saved from Cersei.
Solly Mack
(90,767 posts)Could be he stays around while Cersei angers the people more and more.
He slit one throat to save the city...maybe another? This would play into what TorchtheWitch said above. Jaime as the valonqar instead of Tyrion. Jaime was born second to Cersei, making him her little brother by minutes.
TorchTheWitch
(11,065 posts)Cercei always believes that it's Tyrion since "valonqar" means "little brother," but Jamie is also her little brother since Cercei was born first and Jamie second holding onto her foot.
Solly Mack
(90,767 posts)It could be anyone who is a younger sibling, because Maggy doesn't say your little brother - just that it will be a little brother.
Then some speculate that Maggy could have gotten the gender wrong or that the word valonqar is gender neutral...so it could be a little sister.
I don't know. But I do think the valonqar being Jaime is a possibility.
NewJeffCT
(56,828 posts)Solly Mack
(90,767 posts)herding cats
(19,564 posts)But at least hate her less. Sure, I can do that!
myrna minx
(22,772 posts)NewJeffCT
(56,828 posts)I hated that end to the book as well. I'm still waiting for the damn cliffhanger to resolve and it's been almost 4 years now!!
Solly Mack
(90,767 posts)If he reads that, he'll probably burn Bran's roots just to spite me.
herding cats
(19,564 posts)It would go something like:
GRRM, It pains me to write this to you but, I'm leaving you. Don't act surprised, we both know we've seen this coming for years now. Yes, it was HBO's Game of Thrones that lured me away. How could you not see this coming? I'm sorry, but you've just not been there for me, and they've promised me they will be back next season. They've earned my trust. You, in the meantime, have released chapters I know you wrote years ago, in an attempt to placate me. Did you think I wouldn't remember? You always underestimated how much attention I paid to your every little detail.
I feel abandoned. Unloved, and unimportant to you. I'm sorry it's come to this, I've really tried to stay loyal to you for all these years. And, I had, until this new series came along. All bright an shiny, rehashing all the things we used to be. It reminded me of the best of you and I, when we were younger and more carefree. Do you remember those days? Before egos and fame came between us? I'll never forget when we first met, it was so long ago now... the beginning of the 90's. What we had was special then. If you'd just have cared about me once, just once in these past four years...we could have made it work. Maybe I expected too much from you? I expected you to publish too soon. I know expecting someone to change only leads to disappointment, but I thought, what with the series and all, you'd at least try to be there for me this one time.
Solly Mack
(90,767 posts)Baitball Blogger
(46,711 posts)herding cats
(19,564 posts)A minor addiction issue, or so some said.
It's free for use, though. Help yourself!
DebJ
(7,699 posts)He's 72...............
herding cats
(19,564 posts)I don't mind reading a book written off of an authors "notes" before they passed on. But, when you were in your 50's when you started and never managed to get out more than five books, well, that can irk a reader.
In this day and age of publishing, most people know you are expected to pump out a book a year, two years at the most if you're a diva, quality be damned, if you're working a series. If your not a diva, you'd better pump out a book a year, and make your quota on anthologies, etc.
His work is good, but there are other equally good authors out there who keep writing once they start a series. Be it for the love of their craft, inability to get the characters out of their head, or respect of their fans. You keep on writing. It's what you do and who you are, not to mention how you keep your characters alive to yourself and your fans.
myrna minx
(22,772 posts)What a horrible place to be.
On edit- do we know what happens to Arya's wolf, Nymeria? Did I miss it? Or will her wolf return and be her eyes?
NewJeffCT
(56,828 posts)Somebody in passing mentions that they have heard a story about a huge pack of wolves led by a huge she-wolf. Most people think this is Nymeria and her huge pack will somehow aid the Starks.
herding cats
(19,564 posts)Now you can empathize with those of us who have been waiting, what, 4 years? for some resolution.
myrna minx
(22,772 posts)I think Jon will survive. I remember in one of those after the episodes vignettes the producers said they got permission to do the series when they answered GRRM's question correctly:
Who Jon Snow's mother?
I think he plays a very important role. Or I could be wrong and he's as dead as
Ned.
charlie and algernon
(13,447 posts)Solly Mack
(90,767 posts)If she even killed him.
Solly Mack
(90,767 posts)NewJeffCT
(56,828 posts)I've already seen a few posts on FB about that.
Solly Mack
(90,767 posts)And I think Sansa and Theon came upon them (maybe). Because you can never assume timeline in the show.
Also, it did kind of sound like sword met sword.
NewJeffCT
(56,828 posts)It could be BS to keep people in suspense...
http://www.ew.com/article/2015/06/14/game-thrones-jon-dies-interview
Solly Mack
(90,767 posts)And dammit...he better not be really dead on the show.
I'd pout. I am pouting now.
herding cats
(19,564 posts)I don't think I'm going to take this well. Really, I'm not even kidding. I'll make it a point to remove all heavy objects from the room and only view the season premier on an old TV, JIK.
Solly Mack
(90,767 posts)herding cats
(19,564 posts)Preemptively. I hate to wait until the last minute, and all.
Solly Mack
(90,767 posts)I didn't have to read it, I guess.
herding cats
(19,564 posts)If you didn't read it now, you know at some point you'd have read it later. We all do that, even when we pinkie swear ourselves we won't, we still do it. It's a product of being bored and strung along for too long.
Chin up fellow fan! The whole concept of it all ending in an "epic" battle is expected, but also too predictable. It seems there should be more in the final resolution of all this! We could well be being played with, yet again. Who knows?
Solly Mack
(90,767 posts)Can we sue GRRM for mental anguish? Alienation of affection? Failure to perform his authorly duties?
herding cats
(19,564 posts)Goodness knows he deserves it. As if killing off our most dear protagonist isn't bad enough, then he fails to deliver the product in a timely fashion! There really should be some form of legal remedy to this sort or dereliction of duty, right?
The hours I've spent speculating the outcome of this series should count for something!
Solly Mack
(90,767 posts)The meanie!
herding cats
(19,564 posts)He is a mean one. Not that I mind my emotionally invested characters being slaughtered off, so long as it feeds the end plot in a linear way. But, have the decency to do it in a timely fashion for the sake of all that's holy!
The waiting is just beyond cruel at this point!
Solly Mack
(90,767 posts)MuseRider
(34,109 posts)Honestly? Shit.
TDale313
(7,820 posts)All along we've been told his parentage is important. I think he'll be be back... But is it possible in a different body?
Yavin4
(35,438 posts)This really removes a huge piece of the story.
NewJeffCT
(56,828 posts)to be honest. westeros.org was too busy to access last night
Solly Mack
(90,767 posts)See what happens when you take up with zealots?
CaliforniaPeggy
(149,620 posts)He'd better not be dead!
I can't stand it.
My god.
TDale313
(7,820 posts)Solly Mack
(90,767 posts)but let's keep hope.
CaliforniaPeggy
(149,620 posts)There's been too many deaths in that family!
Solly Mack
(90,767 posts)CaliforniaPeggy
(149,620 posts)I haven't read the books, so there's a lot I don't know!
For instance, the young girl on the boat who collapsed with the bleeding nostrils. What was that all about? No clue.
TDale313
(7,820 posts)Poisoned for revenge against the Lannisters.
CaliforniaPeggy
(149,620 posts)Solly Mack
(90,767 posts)Poison. The girl is Cersei Lannister's daughter. It was revenge.
Yeah, I think Jon is reborn.
CaliforniaPeggy
(149,620 posts)Yuck.
Hope you're right about Jon!
Solly Mack
(90,767 posts)The man who fought for Tyrion during his trial. The one who got his face all crushed in by the Mountain.
The Mountain is Gregor Clegane, brother to the Hound (the man Arya was traveling with), and a sword of the House Lannister.
Gregor raped and killed Elia Martell Targaryen, Oberyn's sister and Rhaegar Targaryen's wife. Oberyn believes Tywin Lannister gave the order for the deaths of Elia and her kids.
He fought the Mountain for revenge - and died.
So, Oberyn's partner, the woman (Ellaria Sand) who kissed Myrcella, who had been plotting with the Sandsnakes, kissed Myrcella with poison on her lips in hopes of killing her.
The Sandsnakes are the daughters of Prince Oberyn. Five of which belong to Ellaria Sand.
CaliforniaPeggy
(149,620 posts)You've really absorbed this.
I remember the fight when Tyrion was accused. And I remember the Hound. It's so complicated.
Thank you.
Solly Mack
(90,767 posts)You'd enjoy the books.
CaliforniaPeggy
(149,620 posts)I'm off to bed.........good night!
NewJeffCT
(56,828 posts)have exponentially more characters in them. For example: Loras (Queen Margaery's brother) is the youngest Tyrell brother in the books - there is also Willas and Garlan Tyrell. On the show, there is only Loras.
Solly Mack
(90,767 posts)I'm watching again.
herding cats
(19,564 posts)It's important to note (I think) Varys has the best interest for the Kingdom at heart. Whatever that may be. He plays the Game of Thrones, but it doesn't seem to me he's doing it for personal gain as much as for a bigger goal. He wants some kind of security, or maybe stability is a better choice, for the Kingdom as a whole. He's one when faced with the reality of the White Walkers and Winter coming, I would think might want to do the right thing. But, time will tell.
Solly Mack
(90,767 posts)But I will never forgive him for not saving Ned.
But I do agree Varys seems to want the best for the 7 Kingdoms.
Liberal Veteran
(22,239 posts)Walk of shame - check
Theon - Jeyne Sansa escape - check
Blind Arya - check
Jon Snow stabbed - check
Sam and Gilly road trip - check
End of Stannis? - most likely
Dorne - Meh, but I feel badly for Myrcella
Selyse - Didn't like her, but at least she ended up having a conscience
Ramsay - despicable as ever
Team Varys/Tyrion - oh, the fun they'll have
Team Jorah/Daario - hopefully will do something interesting
R'hllor - seems to be a bit capricious
Ghost - a no show
CrawlingChaos
(1,893 posts)Well now, I underestimated how depressing that would be. I feel .... shitty.
This is going to sound like a strange thing to say but I thought Jon Snow never looked more beautiful than in tonight's episode. He (the actor) really is an angelic creature - like something Raphael would have painted.
Why, why, WHY????????? Oh, that's right...
The only substantial moment of satisfaction for me was Arya dispensing with Meryn Trant. That was as brutal as I'd hoped it would be.
I don't think I will watch the walk of shame again. I don't like scenes of extreme humiliation and that seemed to go on forever. Although being delivered into the hands of the new and improved Mountain was nice and ominous. I hope the Mountain's efforts will directed towards obliterating the religious freaks. I hope I can look forward to that.
Well shit, I have to digest all this. ::sigh::
Baitball Blogger
(46,711 posts)That's a LOL that's choKing on its own spit from laughing so hard.
Solly Mack
(90,767 posts)I keep hoping Arya pulls back from the brink but tonight I had my doubts. Her sheer brutality in dispensing of Trant was unnerving. While at the same time, I was glad to see him die a horrible death. I felt conflicted about the walk of shame, as well. Even in the books, it was just so wrong in many ways. And I really dislike Cersei.
Maisie Williams was outstanding in her performance! Every look, every thrust, every movement. She should win an award for her performance tonight. Simply outstanding.
Then back at the House of Black and White, when she thought Jaqen H'ghar was dead, and she was crushed. Him, she cares for.
But I wonder if she just clings to him as a means of survivor. I don't know. Arya's arc is causing me slow agony.
She paired with the Hound for survival, after a less than amicable start, and Jaqen thinks she learned to care for the Hound.
I think maybe she did too. Bonded through the sheer act of survival in a war torn world.
Arya's first bond was to her father and then to Jon. Both warriors. The Hound and Jaqen are/were (maybe/maybe not) warriors.
Nymeria, the Queen, was a warrior. Nymeria, the direwolf, is a warrior.
Warriors die. (and maybe to be reborn)
I need Arya to live, as whole as possible. She's been my favorite for years and years. I can relate to a little girl she-wolf.
CrawlingChaos
(1,893 posts)I know for me, as a female, she's kind of the gutsy, fearless little girl I wish I'd been - and stood up for others who were weaker (again, that wolf would have been so handy).
Absolutely agree, Maisie Williams did a wonderful job in the finale. She just gets better and better in that role.
Gee Solly Mack, I wish you could have mapped out the course of the series instead of GRRM. I liked your ideas so much better!
Solly Mack
(90,767 posts)I adore Arya. Even bloodthirsty Arya. I want her and Jon to be reunited - in a positive way.
Sometimes I worry she'll be sent to kill him (whatever he becomes), as one of the Faceless.
Yavin4
(35,438 posts)Now you will know why book readers are always crying for the next book.
NewJeffCT
(56,828 posts)We get a bit more in King's Landing with Cersei, Kevan Lannister and GM Pycelle, and another upcoming trial by combat, but there have been so many dropped storylines that it's hard to say if anything will be picked up...
In the books, there is a siege of Meereen going on with invaders from Yunkai & Astapor (two of the cities Dany freed), as well as from some other cities in Essos (Volantis, New Ghis, Old Ghis, etc)... no siege yet, or even an indication that Meereen will be attacked. My guess is that it might be too big for TV and they'll skip it. (Not to mention - no Iron Fleet arriving, either)
Baitball Blogger
(46,711 posts)It will save me the trouble of swiping below it to look for spoilers.
Yavin4
(35,438 posts)Okay, there are at some major holes in the TV show's narrative going forward:
1.) When characters die, they take their knowledge with them. Correct? So, if Jon is really dead, how is the Watch or anyone else going to know that Valaryian steel can stop the White Walkers? Who is going to lead the fight against them? Without Jon's knowledge, it's going to be a total route. Yes, Sam knows, but he's gone.
2.) If Snow dies this early, then his parentage really does not matter. Who cares now? Does it really make a difference now?
3.) Where do Theon and Sansa go? Who do they go to? Yes, Sansa knows that Rickon is alive, but she does not know where. How does she find out where Rickon is?
4.) If Brienne is there for Sansa and Theon, where will Brienne take her? Can't take her to the Wall. Can't take her to the Vale. Can't take her to King's Landing? Where?
5.) Jaimie is going to know Myrcella was poisoned, and he's going to go to war with Dorne over it. That has to be his reaction. Right? Killing the princess is an act of war. Does he kill the Dornish ward in turn?
Yes. I have too much invested in this show.
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)jakeXT
(10,575 posts)2)Martin on dead characters
And then just a few months ago when we re-asked about the topic, Martin told us: If theres one thing we know in A Song of Ice and Fire is that death is not necessarily permanent.
http://www.ew.com/article/2015/06/14/game-thrones-jon-snow-really-dead
I haven't read the books, but what if Arya and Jon are both from the same mother and father ?
Someone mentioned there is a 5 year age difference between them, so I don't know if it would work.
4) Gwendoline Christie thinks she could pick up the rest of Stannis's army
http://watchersonthewall.com/gwendoline-christie-on-briennes-future-stannis-and-the-game-of-thrones-finale/#more-36125
Yavin4
(35,438 posts)Melissandre has no other purpose. There's no king for her. There's nothing but a bunch of horny dudes at the wall. Shireen's death was for nothing. What about the White Walkers? Longclaw? Ghost?
The story can't move forward without him.
Baitball Blogger
(46,711 posts)she's in time to take GoT to the next level. Once Stannis' run was over she gave up on that quest entirely, freeing herself for the next big thing to happen on GoT.
NewJeffCT
(56,828 posts)she stays behind at the Wall - I think she realized Jon was special somehow and had given up on Stannis earlier. (Shireen and Selyse also stayed behind at the Wall...)
jakeXT
(10,575 posts)Baitball Blogger
(46,711 posts)Last edited Wed Jun 17, 2015, 11:13 AM - Edit history (1)
He knew Arya would be blind forever. And Jon is in limbo. And the little guy already knows how to warg. Why do I get the impression that special gifts or skills lay in wait for Jon and Arya?
TorchTheWitch
(11,065 posts)And she won't be in the show either. The blindness was both a punishment and a lesson. She learns to use her other senses and various other tricks that blind people use to get around, and she passes a test in the book and gets her vision back. That elevates her to a higher level in her training, and this time she's given a beautiful face and is sent to a mummer's troup to learn from them (probably how to act like different people). In the chapter in The Winds of Winter that Martin released about her she kills Raff the Sweetling at a theater. I think she was also learning to hide her killing activities from her teachers (in the books it's not Jaqen but a guy called "the kindly man" and the other girl is called "the waif" . During this time with the mummer's troupe she's also supposed to learn more languages.
In the books all the Stark kids can warg, but they don't realize it except for Arya who figures that out in her training though even from the time that she was traveling with Yoren, Gendry, Hot Pie and the others to the Wall she was having wolf dreams where she becomes Nymeria and hunts with her pack. It's also Nymeria that pulls the dead Lady Catlyn out of the river which is how Thoros (or I think Dondarian?) bring her back to life as Lady Stoneheart. When Arya wakes up from that dream as she's traveling with the Hound she's certain that her mother is dead.
Jon is still wishy-washy about that ability though he knows that when Ghost is near him he gets the same sort of higher senses that wolves have and also a craving for bloody meat. I think he knows more than he wants to admit to himself, and there was one instance during the long time that Ghost and he were separated when he had to climb the Wall that he senses Ghost's return because he starts getting those pre-warging feelings, and jumps up and starts calling for Ghost.
Sansa only occasionally felt Lady was near her or had a few dreams about her, but she's clueless about warging, and probably because Lady is dead. I expect Sansa to die since she lost her wolf permanently through Lady's death.
Rob was also a bit oblivious, and I can't remember if anything was ever said about him having "wolf deams" or anything like that. Doesn't matter since both him and Grey Wind are dead.
Baitball Blogger
(46,711 posts)I am so glad that I will now wait for the books to be completed before I start to read them because I see now how infuriating it would be to be left on a cliffhanger for years on end.
jakeXT
(10,575 posts)He talked about how people on the internet have figured out secrets from book one, that will be revealed in book six.
But if he decided long ago the Butler did it, he's not going to change it, because someone figured it out.
Baitball Blogger
(46,711 posts)and she changed her mind. She said she knew exactly what the last line would be in the last chapter. And then, she changed it.
NewJeffCT
(56,828 posts)1.) When characters die, they take their knowledge with them. Correct? So, if Jon is really dead, how is the Watch or anyone else going to know that Valaryian steel can stop the White Walkers? Who is going to lead the fight against them? Without Jon's knowledge, it's going to be a total route. Yes, Sam knows, but he's gone.
That should be correct. I would think if The Others and the White Walkers make it over the Wall, then Castle Black is in deep doo-doo. Heck, even with Jon Snow and his sword, they would be in trouble against thousands of them. There are 50 Nights Watch brothers left at Castle Black, and now the few thousand wildings that made it through wont be fighting with them.
2.) If Snow dies this early, then his parentage really does not matter. Who cares now? Does it really make a difference now?
While Kit Harington is saying he is dead, that does not mean Jon Snow is done for and he was supposedly in northern Ireland recently. If you remember when The Hound fought Berric Dondarrion, a red priest (Thoros of Myr) was able to resurrect the dead Lord Berric. At the time, Melisandre said he should not be doing that. But, now that Melisandre is at the Wall, she may change her mind and bring him back, and possibly fulfill the prophecy about Azor Ahai. So, maybe he comes back as Azor Ahai and no longer needs to be bound by his oath to the Nights Watch.
3.) Where do Theon and Sansa go? Who do they go to? Yes, Sansa knows that Rickon is alive, but she does not know where. How does she find out where Rickon is?
Right now, Theon and Sansa do not know that Jon has been killed. Since Sansa does know Jon was Lord Commander, my guess is that she is headed there. No idea on Rickon, but I suspect that Bran may be able to point her in the right direction now that Bran is becoming a powerful greenseer.
4.) If Brienne is there for Sansa and Theon, where will Brienne take her? Can't take her to the Wall. Can't take her to the Vale. Can't take her to King's Landing? Where?
No idea here. Gwendolyn Christie mentioned something about her gathering the remainder of Stannis forces and leading them? Maybe she gathers them and joins up with the wilding to retake Winterfell and avenge Jon Snow?
5.) Jaimie is going to know Myrcella was poisoned, and he's going to go to war with Dorne over it. That has to be his reaction. Right? Killing the princess is an act of war. Does he kill the Dornish ward in turn?
I was expecting the ship to start turning around, but Jamie would obviously be outnumbered if he got back to the docks. Plus, they also have Prince Trystane with them who is now their prisoner, and TV Doran Martells only heir.
seveneyes
(4,631 posts)NewJeffCT
(56,828 posts)NewJeffCT
(56,828 posts)meaning, even those of us who have read the books won't know what's going to happen.