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Game of Thrones 5.10 "Mother's Mercy" (spoiler alert) (Original Post) NewJeffCT Jun 2015 OP
In case some people missed them during the week NewJeffCT Jun 2015 #1
I hope Ser Meryn Trant gets his tonight. Baitball Blogger Jun 2015 #2
Poor Shireen. Solly Mack Jun 2015 #3
greyworm off the DL Yavin4 Jun 2015 #28
I liked the next video youtube played for me on Jon Snow's mother jakeXT Jun 2015 #4
I read the books so my predictions are: (Spoilers, maybe.) Cleita Jun 2015 #5
There was a "Winds of Winter" Arya chapter released NewJeffCT Jun 2015 #7
Yeah, I know about that. But it seems she is supposed to kill him. Cleita Jun 2015 #8
A few spoilers floating around the tubes of the internets NewJeffCT Jun 2015 #6
Oh, my! Thanks! Solly Mack Jun 2015 #9
Benjen Stark is just a couple of seconds in the recap, but not on imdb jakeXT Jun 2015 #11
Total Viewership already ahead of last year NewJeffCT Jun 2015 #10
Episode titles usually have more than 1 meaning NewJeffCT Jun 2015 #12
Wow did you nail that one! n/t DebJ Jun 2015 #111
Stannis is having a rough morning. Solly Mack Jun 2015 #13
Sansa lights the candle. Solly Mack Jun 2015 #14
The battle....is....coming Solly Mack Jun 2015 #15
and is over already. Solly Mack Jun 2015 #16
Ut oh...Brienne of Tarth meets a very wounded Stannis Solly Mack Jun 2015 #17
Theon scores! Solly Mack Jun 2015 #18
I know who that is! Solly Mack Jun 2015 #19
Well, that was rather gruesome. Solly Mack Jun 2015 #20
I assume there was water around the moat when Reek and Sansa jumped. Baitball Blogger Jun 2015 #24
Snow. Lots and lots of snow. Well, in the books anyway. Solly Mack Jun 2015 #29
Was it a suicide attempt? Baitball Blogger Jun 2015 #32
No. Escape attempt. Solly Mack Jun 2015 #33
No. herding cats Jun 2015 #120
Arya learned how to face shift! Baitball Blogger Jun 2015 #21
As soon as the girl wouldn't show her face I knew it was her. Solly Mack Jun 2015 #22
Cliff hanger for Arya:Spoiler Baitball Blogger Jun 2015 #23
Didn't they leave her going off somewhere else for training? Solly Mack Jun 2015 #25
End of book 4 had her blind. Iggo Jun 2015 #155
What a touching, yet incredibly icky moment between father/uncle and daughter. Solly Mack Jun 2015 #26
I hope Bronn thought to stash up on the antidote. Baitball Blogger Jun 2015 #27
I'm not as honorable as Ned Stark. Solly Mack Jun 2015 #30
That man pops up anywhere and everywhere. Solly Mack Jun 2015 #31
That dragon acts like an adolescent! Baitball Blogger Jun 2015 #34
Oh, now. He went to the land of his birth. He likes it there. Solly Mack Jun 2015 #35
That makes sense now. Baitball Blogger Jun 2015 #36
Parts of it, yes. Solly Mack Jun 2015 #37
Liar, liar sackcloth on fire. Solly Mack Jun 2015 #38
Cersei's walk of shame: Baitball Blogger Jun 2015 #41
No clue. Maybe. Probably. Solly Mack Jun 2015 #42
I think Lena Headey was pregnant NewJeffCT Jun 2015 #60
That's right! Thanks! I had forgotten that. Solly Mack Jun 2015 #64
I dislike Cersei but I do hope she kills that cruel woman jailer. Solly Mack Jun 2015 #39
A Lannister always keeps his or her promise. Baitball Blogger Jun 2015 #43
They always pay their debts. Solly Mack Jun 2015 #44
Purist. Baitball Blogger Jun 2015 #47
LMAO. Guilty. Solly Mack Jun 2015 #50
Yeah, and she owed that jailer ... JustABozoOnThisBus Jun 2015 #160
and more! lol Solly Mack Jun 2015 #162
Time for the perv walk. Solly Mack Jun 2015 #40
Does her character get a sharp arc growth after that experience? Baitball Blogger Jun 2015 #45
Gosh no. She's a POS through in through. Solly Mack Jun 2015 #46
She's with the Mountain now, so I'm guessing there is going to be a major Baitball Blogger Jun 2015 #54
I hope so. Have to wait until next season or a new book...whichever comes first. (lol) Solly Mack Jun 2015 #58
Cersei is the most unremittingly rotten character.......can't see any change for her........ n/t DebJ Jun 2015 #113
Well, that woman is back. Blech. and so is the mountain. Solly Mack Jun 2015 #48
That WAS the mountain, wasn't it? Baitball Blogger Jun 2015 #52
Yes. The freak maester Qyburn transforms him. Solly Mack Jun 2015 #56
What you could see of his skin looked blueish? ***Book references below! herding cats Jun 2015 #61
We have the red witch and Jon Snow in the same place. Baitball Blogger Jun 2015 #49
Oh, now that is sad. :( Solly Mack Jun 2015 #51
I am so, so glad I had a week to prepare for it. Baitball Blogger Jun 2015 #53
I know! I read the books and it was still painful to watch. Solly Mack Jun 2015 #59
We had really conjectured that JS DebJ Jun 2015 #116
I think Jon survives. Solly Mack Jun 2015 #123
Rumor on the internet is that he signed a contract for next year. Baitball Blogger Jun 2015 #141
I don't think he'll be a corpse unless people think him one while he Solly Mack Jun 2015 #145
Maybe brought back from the dead, though... TDale313 Jun 2015 #125
It wasn't through the heart TorchTheWitch Jun 2015 #174
Absolutely Goblinmonger Jun 2015 #182
I didn't watch it, I just listened. herding cats Jun 2015 #63
I watched. I had to. I was hoping he'd warg or rise again in flames. Solly Mack Jun 2015 #65
I gave up all hope when Melisandre rode back into camp. herding cats Jun 2015 #73
I want them both to survive. But if warging keeps him alive long enough for him to be healed Solly Mack Jun 2015 #74
Yes, Ma'am! I do remember! herding cats Jun 2015 #78
I wasn't all that happy to see her but I knew she had to be there. Solly Mack Jun 2015 #79
She's an evil zealot herding cats Jun 2015 #85
I want Arya to survive as Arya and if certain meanies have to survive in exchange for that Solly Mack Jun 2015 #87
I'm 100% with you on both of them. herding cats Jun 2015 #90
GRRM knows we want the books to end a certain way. He'll cut us. I know he will. Solly Mack Jun 2015 #92
See, that's why we had to break up. He and I. herding cats Jun 2015 #95
Same as I. Both dreamer and masochist. Solly Mack Jun 2015 #96
Please, if you're sad then I'm pitiful. herding cats Jun 2015 #99
I try to get the whole series in before the next season begins. Solly Mack Jun 2015 #102
I always reread before a book herding cats Jun 2015 #108
I agree. I don't think Stannis is dead either. For the same reason. Never saw the body. Solly Mack Jun 2015 #121
I don't think he can ever become Theon again NewJeffCT Jun 2015 #135
Maybe Reek is going through his own disciplined training at becoming no one? Baitball Blogger Jun 2015 #142
Interesting thought! Solly Mack Jun 2015 #147
He did identify with it. Solly Mack Jun 2015 #144
About Myrcella. I didn't forget. Just wanted to think on it. Solly Mack Jun 2015 #146
What if Myrcella being dead is what causes Cersei to lash out at Jaime and he Solly Mack Jun 2015 #163
and then he encounters NewJeffCT Jun 2015 #164
I don't know. Probably not LS in the show. Solly Mack Jun 2015 #166
That's a good speculation! herding cats Jun 2015 #173
lol That's more likely. Solly Mack Jun 2015 #177
in the books I always thought her "valonqar" would be Jamie TorchTheWitch Jun 2015 #175
I wondered about that too. Because he is younger. Solly Mack Jun 2015 #176
already a meme for it NewJeffCT Jun 2015 #80
I won't. But she still better save Jon Snow. Solly Mack Jun 2015 #82
Maybe not forgive herding cats Jun 2015 #84
God! What a horrible end. myrna minx Jun 2015 #55
Yes NewJeffCT Jun 2015 #62
GRRM is cruel to his readers. Solly Mack Jun 2015 #66
I keep wanting to write a Dear John letter to GRRM. He really deserves it. herding cats Jun 2015 #76
Heh! True though. Solly Mack Jun 2015 #77
This needs to be Twittered. Baitball Blogger Jun 2015 #81
I, um, had to take a sabbatical from twitter... herding cats Jun 2015 #86
I don't think he has any intentions of completing his books. DebJ Jun 2015 #118
He wont' be the first painfully slow author I've followed who passed before finishing. herding cats Jun 2015 #126
So everyone is in suspense. myrna minx Jun 2015 #137
In the books NewJeffCT Jun 2015 #139
Mmm hmm. herding cats Jun 2015 #75
I can only imagine what a long 4 y ears that has been. myrna minx Jun 2015 #138
Damn. They're going to have to really expand the Westeros Memorial Cemetary after this episode. charlie and algernon Jun 2015 #57
Stannis still got off too easy. Solly Mack Jun 2015 #67
I predict: Brienne did NOT kill Stannis. Solly Mack Jun 2015 #68
it's possible NewJeffCT Jun 2015 #69
Well, makes sense. We didn't see the sword fall. Solly Mack Jun 2015 #71
Kit Harington - "I'm not coming back" NewJeffCT Jun 2015 #70
Well, Jon Snow might be dead but AA isn't. Solly Mack Jun 2015 #72
If this isn't BS then my theories are shot! herding cats Jun 2015 #83
Can't you just hear the collective "WTF!" now? Solly Mack Jun 2015 #88
Hear it, I'm uttering it at this moment. herding cats Jun 2015 #91
LOL! NewJeffCT gave me a major sad with his link. Solly Mack Jun 2015 #94
It was put right there in front of you. herding cats Jun 2015 #98
It's the not knowing. All these years of not knowing. Solly Mack Jun 2015 #100
I love the concept! herding cats Jun 2015 #105
He probably gets a good laugh from comments like ours. Solly Mack Jun 2015 #106
Sadly, you're most likely right. herding cats Jun 2015 #109
It does take its toll. Solly Mack Jun 2015 #114
I am really pissed off! MuseRider Jun 2015 #89
I just can't believe Jon Snow's story is done yet. TDale313 Jun 2015 #97
If Jon Snow is really dead, then there really is no good ending Yavin4 Jun 2015 #151
not sure what will happen NewJeffCT Jun 2015 #152
Guess I'll add a thought for Selyse Baratheon. Solly Mack Jun 2015 #93
Jon Snow! spoilers. CaliforniaPeggy Jun 2015 #101
Absolutely! TDale313 Jun 2015 #103
Very sad death. Solly Mack Jun 2015 #107
I hope so much that he didn't die. CaliforniaPeggy Jun 2015 #110
I think (hope) maybe he didn't really die. Solly Mack Jun 2015 #112
Some of the other posts here (yours?) seemed to think he didn't. CaliforniaPeggy Jun 2015 #115
Jamie and Cersei Lannister's daughter. TDale313 Jun 2015 #119
Oh boy. Thanks! CaliforniaPeggy Jun 2015 #127
The kiss she got on the dock? Recall that? Solly Mack Jun 2015 #122
I do remember that. Revenge? CaliforniaPeggy Jun 2015 #128
The woman who kissed her was the partner of Oberyn Martell. Solly Mack Jun 2015 #130
Wow, my dear Solly! CaliforniaPeggy Jun 2015 #131
lol. I am a fan of the books. Solly Mack Jun 2015 #132
I probably would! Thanks, Solly! CaliforniaPeggy Jun 2015 #133
The books NewJeffCT Jun 2015 #136
Varys got in how? How? Solly Mack Jun 2015 #104
They don't explain it. herding cats Jun 2015 #117
I much prefer him to Littlefinger. Solly Mack Jun 2015 #124
I had to watch a late showing. My satellite went out right in the middle of Arya's scene. Liberal Veteran Jun 2015 #129
Aaaaaahhhhhh...... fuck CrawlingChaos Jun 2015 #134
LOK! Baitball Blogger Jun 2015 #143
The character (Jon) did seem more relaxed than ever. Solly Mack Jun 2015 #150
Arya is a favorite for so many CrawlingChaos Jun 2015 #168
Don't tell GRRM that. He'll kill off all the Starks just 'cause he can. Solly Mack Jun 2015 #170
TV viewers are now caught up with book readers Yavin4 Jun 2015 #140
There is not much else left to spoil NewJeffCT Jun 2015 #148
You should never leave white space below your posts. Baitball Blogger Jun 2015 #149
NewJeffCT, I need your help on this. There are some major holes in the TV show's narrative. Yavin4 Jun 2015 #153
Another question is Margaery still in the dungeons? nt riderinthestorm Jun 2015 #154
some thoughts jakeXT Jun 2015 #156
Jon Snow has to come back to life otherwise... Yavin4 Jun 2015 #157
Actually, Shireen's death is what brings Melissandre back to the Keep where Baitball Blogger Jun 2015 #159
In the books NewJeffCT Jun 2015 #161
Looks like she can see the future and the past jakeXT Jun 2015 #165
Wow. So George Martin really does know where these characters are going. Baitball Blogger Jun 2015 #167
In the books Arya isn't blind forever TorchTheWitch Jun 2015 #178
thank you for that summary. Baitball Blogger Jun 2015 #180
His writing style is 90% gardener and 10% architect jakeXT Jun 2015 #179
J.K. Rowling said something similar about the Harry Potter movies, Baitball Blogger Jun 2015 #181
Some guesses at answers NewJeffCT Jun 2015 #158
It ain't over yet seveneyes Jun 2015 #169
A bunch of recaps/roundups of the finale NewJeffCT Jun 2015 #171
I guess we're all "Unsullied" now NewJeffCT Jun 2015 #172

Cleita

(75,480 posts)
5. I read the books so my predictions are: (Spoilers, maybe.)
Sun Jun 14, 2015, 04:56 PM
Jun 2015

Cersei does the naked walk of shame through Kings Landing. Arya will kill someone. In the book it was the Night's Watch bard, but since he wasn't in the TV series, it could be Ser Trent. The Sand Snakes do kill a Westero knight guarding Myrcella, but it could be Jaime instead, although I doubt it as in the books he comes in contact with Brienne again. Jon gets stabbed by his Night Watch mates, but we don't know if he dies. However, when I got to the end of what is there in the series, it seems like the Starks are getting offed one by one. Maybe it's the way their House ends. Perhaps the Targaryans rise again. Frankly, I'm getting tired of it and probably won't read on. I just don't care anymore.

NewJeffCT

(56,828 posts)
7. There was a "Winds of Winter" Arya chapter released
Sun Jun 14, 2015, 05:30 PM
Jun 2015

called "Mercy" - in that chapter, Arya encounters Raff the Sweetling in a brothel in Braavos and slashes his femoral artery, killing him.

Cleita

(75,480 posts)
8. Yeah, I know about that. But it seems she is supposed to kill him.
Sun Jun 14, 2015, 05:35 PM
Jun 2015

In killing the bard she encounters the punishment of the kindly man by being forced to go blind. She still kills under orders but is not allowed to choose her own victims.

NewJeffCT

(56,828 posts)
6. A few spoilers floating around the tubes of the internets
Sun Jun 14, 2015, 05:27 PM
Jun 2015

1) The "previously on Game of Thrones" leaked out from Australia for the final episode. Benjen Stark is featured prominently, so I guess the often unreliable IMDB listing of him appearing in episode 10 is true. He last appeared in Season 1, Episode 8. (Benjen is Ned Stark's younger brother...)

2) Looks like we'll be getting a cliffhanger ending as well - major spoiler at the link below. I've seen it enough times this past week that I believe it's legit.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/game-thrones-season-5-finale-leaked-image-jon-snow-reveals-shocking-ending-watch-mothers-1506043

NewJeffCT

(56,828 posts)
12. Episode titles usually have more than 1 meaning
Sun Jun 14, 2015, 07:19 PM
Jun 2015

we know one mother is Cersei for tonight, who will also be asking the Mother's Mercy for her sins (The Mother being one of the 7 gods)

We'll also likely see the fallout with Shireen's mother, Selyse Baratheon

Maybe we'll see the Mother of Dragons - Daenerys.

Doubt we'll see Lady Stoneheart, even though it's another internet rumor.

Solly Mack

(90,767 posts)
29. Snow. Lots and lots of snow. Well, in the books anyway.
Sun Jun 14, 2015, 09:35 PM
Jun 2015

Not sure what they jumped into on the show since the snow melted some.

herding cats

(19,564 posts)
120. No.
Mon Jun 15, 2015, 12:40 AM
Jun 2015

They're supposed to be trying to find freedom. Who knows what they'll find in the end, but they weren't trying to kill themselves.

Baitball Blogger

(46,711 posts)
23. Cliff hanger for Arya:Spoiler
Sun Jun 14, 2015, 09:30 PM
Jun 2015

She is blind. I imagine that's her cliff hanger, and she is now up to where the books have left her.

Solly Mack

(90,767 posts)
26. What a touching, yet incredibly icky moment between father/uncle and daughter.
Sun Jun 14, 2015, 09:33 PM
Jun 2015

Good thing it didn't last long. (I knew that was a bad kiss)

NewJeffCT

(56,828 posts)
60. I think Lena Headey was pregnant
Sun Jun 14, 2015, 10:11 PM
Jun 2015

during the filming, so I think they must have had a stand-in/body double. Great job by her, though. Proud to start, but barely hanging on at the end.

Solly Mack

(90,767 posts)
64. That's right! Thanks! I had forgotten that.
Sun Jun 14, 2015, 10:16 PM
Jun 2015

Yeah. I was glad she held on as long as she did. Can't stand her but I dislike those Sparrows just as much. Maybe more.

Solly Mack

(90,767 posts)
40. Time for the perv walk.
Sun Jun 14, 2015, 09:51 PM
Jun 2015

Because the only reason to make someone walk naked through town is to get your own perverse rocks off.

As an aside, Cersei is walking rather proudly right now.

That might change with the crowd yelling at her.

Baitball Blogger

(46,711 posts)
45. Does her character get a sharp arc growth after that experience?
Sun Jun 14, 2015, 09:56 PM
Jun 2015

Where does someone like Cersei go after that?

Baitball Blogger

(46,711 posts)
54. She's with the Mountain now, so I'm guessing there is going to be a major
Sun Jun 14, 2015, 10:04 PM
Jun 2015

clean-up of the religious fanatics.

herding cats

(19,564 posts)
61. What you could see of his skin looked blueish? ***Book references below!
Sun Jun 14, 2015, 10:12 PM
Jun 2015

Ugh...he's going to be an interesting turn of events!

At least I can speculate on John snow's death this Summer now. I so didn't want him to wag into his wolf. Now I still have hope they can both exist independent of each other.

I one of the ones who believes JS is one of the three heads of the dragon spoke of in the prophesy.

Baitball Blogger

(46,711 posts)
49. We have the red witch and Jon Snow in the same place.
Sun Jun 14, 2015, 09:58 PM
Jun 2015

The Red Witch is in need of a new project and something wicked this way comes for Jon.

Match made in heaven.

Solly Mack

(90,767 posts)
59. I know! I read the books and it was still painful to watch.
Sun Jun 14, 2015, 10:09 PM
Jun 2015

Just like watching Ned die even when you know it is coming.

DebJ

(7,699 posts)
116. We had really conjectured that JS
Mon Jun 15, 2015, 12:35 AM
Jun 2015

survived, but not with the treatment in the tv show..impossible. Right through the heart by Olly.

Baitball Blogger

(46,711 posts)
141. Rumor on the internet is that he signed a contract for next year.
Mon Jun 15, 2015, 10:02 AM
Jun 2015

That would be the cushiest job ever if he got paid for playing the role of a corpse.

Solly Mack

(90,767 posts)
145. I don't think he'll be a corpse unless people think him one while he
Mon Jun 15, 2015, 10:46 AM
Jun 2015

does whatever he does to become whatever it is he becomes.

TDale313

(7,820 posts)
125. Maybe brought back from the dead, though...
Mon Jun 15, 2015, 12:48 AM
Jun 2015

Yes, the show seems much more... Definitive... Than the books did, but I find it hard to believe Jon Snow's story is finished, especially since we were told his parentage would play a big role.

TorchTheWitch

(11,065 posts)
174. It wasn't through the heart
Tue Jun 16, 2015, 10:55 PM
Jun 2015

When he's lying in the snow you can see all the stabs are to his stomach. That's the only place where there is any blood.

Besides, the Red Woman is more powerful than Thoros of Myr, and I doubt it matters whether or not he's really really really dead or not. He isn't going to stay dead or he's not dead yet at the end of the show. The whole story line of the Wall, the Night's Watch, the White Walkers, etc. collapses without Jon Snow... there isn't any other character that is in any position to deal with that.

Him being really really really dead also kills Bran's whole story line... there's no one else Bran can "fly" to in order to help them save the realm.

It also kills the Red Woman's story line, and there's no other reason for her to have returned to the Wall other than to save Jon. She was so devastated when she got back because it finally dawned on her that Stannis is not AA returned, and she's responsible for all the deaths her mistake of believing it was Stannis who was AA returned and would save the realm from the Night's King and his White Walkers with their army of the dead. There was also the stare-down between the Night's King and Jon Snow that makes it apparent they meet again.

Kit Harington cut his hair the same length as he's done after every season before as well, and by the time he starts filming again it's grown back. Besides, his hair length doesn't really matter either.... Cercei just had all of hers cut off, and she's not going anywhere. He also got no send off party or gift after the season wrapped, and even the actors portraying minor characters always do.

Also, at the very end when you think he's dead his eyes lighten... when anyone dies their eyes don't do that, so something was happening there, and he was probably warging into Ghost perhaps with Bran's help.

Martin also goofed a long time ago and said that Jon Snow finds out about his parentage. That's another reason he's not really really really dead... that whole parentage story line means nothing with him being really really really dead.

Besides, the series is about "Ice and Fire". We already know Dany is fire, and it's obvious that it's Jon Snow who is ice. They're the two most important characters in the whole series for the books and the show.

Kit Harington as Jon Snow will be back and alive again next season.

 

Goblinmonger

(22,340 posts)
182. Absolutely
Wed Jun 17, 2015, 11:47 AM
Jun 2015

If Jon Snow is dead, then the White Walkers fucking decimate Westeros. There will be no one to lead the charge against them.

herding cats

(19,564 posts)
63. I didn't watch it, I just listened.
Sun Jun 14, 2015, 10:14 PM
Jun 2015

I haven't reread read that part of the books ever either. I just skip right over it, even if it was slightly different in the series the premise is the same. I hate it, too!

herding cats

(19,564 posts)
73. I gave up all hope when Melisandre rode back into camp.
Sun Jun 14, 2015, 10:46 PM
Jun 2015

I think we both can speculate why. I don't really want him to take over his wolf, though. I want them both to survive.

Which I know isn't the most popular of choices.

Solly Mack

(90,767 posts)
74. I want them both to survive. But if warging keeps him alive long enough for him to be healed
Sun Jun 14, 2015, 10:48 PM
Jun 2015

then I'm OK with that.

Remember Dondarrion - Thoros of Myr brought him back. The Red Woman practices the same faith.

herding cats

(19,564 posts)
78. Yes, Ma'am! I do remember!
Sun Jun 14, 2015, 11:00 PM
Jun 2015

When Melisandre rode back into camp I literally stood up and said, "Oh, hell yes! I see how this could play out now!" In a room of three other people who hadn't read the books. They were pretty sure I'd lost it then. Which I had, because I'm normally very quiet an reserved.

Solly Mack

(90,767 posts)
79. I wasn't all that happy to see her but I knew she had to be there.
Sun Jun 14, 2015, 11:05 PM
Jun 2015

I was like, "Oh, OK, but how did she escape?"

herding cats

(19,564 posts)
85. She's an evil zealot
Sun Jun 14, 2015, 11:10 PM
Jun 2015

They always escape in the series! I'm hoping that gets resolved in the ending. Please, let that be resolved in the ending!

Solly Mack

(90,767 posts)
87. I want Arya to survive as Arya and if certain meanies have to survive in exchange for that
Sun Jun 14, 2015, 11:13 PM
Jun 2015

I'll swallow hard.

I also want Jon to survive as Jon (whatever his last name will be or his new "title&quot

all these years and I'm still not over Ned's death....I can't take too many more Starks or half-Starks dying for good.

herding cats

(19,564 posts)
90. I'm 100% with you on both of them.
Sun Jun 14, 2015, 11:33 PM
Jun 2015

Arya is one of my personal favorites from the books, and by extension the HBO series. I want her to be strong, but not "no one" per the Faceless Men's religion. Which is interesting in that it seems to encompass most/all other religions. John Snow is one of the good ones and I suspect of a bloodline to be a leader once Winter comes. How can they kill him off? If only it were so easy in A Song of Ice and Fire, right?

I'm completely in camp Arya Stark and John *insert whatever last name he resolves to here* until there's no hope left for either one!

As to Ned...who is ever over his death completely? I almost stopped reading then, if not for the fact that I still felt so much emotional investment to several other characters. Again, damn you GRRM, this time for being so good at your craft!

herding cats

(19,564 posts)
95. See, that's why we had to break up. He and I.
Sun Jun 14, 2015, 11:47 PM
Jun 2015

It was a totally unhealthy, one sided relationship.

Still, I keep hoping for the best, and dreaming of something better than what I know in my heart is going to come to pass. Still, after all these years, and I've been with the books since the first publication, I still hope.

OMG, am I a literary masochist? No, no, no! I'm a dreamer! Right?


herding cats

(19,564 posts)
99. Please, if you're sad then I'm pitiful.
Sun Jun 14, 2015, 11:59 PM
Jun 2015

I'm already trying to figure out when I can schedule a marathon re-watch of the entire season!

Solly Mack

(90,767 posts)
102. I try to get the whole series in before the next season begins.
Mon Jun 15, 2015, 12:06 AM
Jun 2015

I'm also on another reading of the books. We're both hopeless.

You think Myrcella is dead? I think maybe, maybe not.




herding cats

(19,564 posts)
108. I always reread before a book
Mon Jun 15, 2015, 12:22 AM
Jun 2015

And rewatch before a new series launch. Yeah, I'm that bad.

I never count a character as dead unless their head is being shown severed from their body in this series. Having said that, I don't know what long term purpose her living or dying might serve in the plot. So, we may have lost her. Which would only be sad because we only just started to like her...which is a recipe for death in GoT.

How about the Reek and Sansa arc tonight? It made me smile to think he'd found a semblance of himself again, and that she (Sansa) was was the one who helped lead him back to it. After all, they were children who basically grew up as siblings, if we pretend the whole 'he tried to steal her heritage from her' thing never took place. It's not as if that worked out well for him in the end or anything.

Much as I dislike Theon, I don't hate Reek. I'd like to see him earn back some of his self respect by helping Sansa.

Solly Mack

(90,767 posts)
121. I agree. I don't think Stannis is dead either. For the same reason. Never saw the body.
Mon Jun 15, 2015, 12:40 AM
Jun 2015

But if Reek regains his identity, you'll dislike his original self even as you celebrate Reek's victory. Best not to think on that too much. The head spins.

NewJeffCT

(56,828 posts)
135. I don't think he can ever become Theon again
Mon Jun 15, 2015, 06:18 AM
Jun 2015

He may regain some of his former self, but the reason Ramsay cut off his member was because that was such an important part of Theon.

Baitball Blogger

(46,711 posts)
142. Maybe Reek is going through his own disciplined training at becoming no one?
Mon Jun 15, 2015, 10:07 AM
Jun 2015

Whatever he turns into next will be better than Theon, and has to be an improvement over Reek.

He already took the first step by saving Sansa.

Solly Mack

(90,767 posts)
146. About Myrcella. I didn't forget. Just wanted to think on it.
Mon Jun 15, 2015, 10:53 AM
Jun 2015

I agree she doesn't advance the story. Unless the writers of the show need her for some plot twist they've created. We know what Varys does in the books and why. Maybe he'll use her to advance his cause and set Cersei off the deep end.

Maybe her dying now would do the same thing.

But unless Myrcella is somehow, through extreme contortions in the minds of the shows' writers, yet another secret Targaryen, she's worthless to the story.

So many innocent victims in the Game of Thrones.

Solly Mack

(90,767 posts)
163. What if Myrcella being dead is what causes Cersei to lash out at Jaime and he
Tue Jun 16, 2015, 11:57 AM
Jun 2015

leaves King's Landing, like in the books, to get away from her?

He goes off and does...who knows what? lol

NewJeffCT

(56,828 posts)
164. and then he encounters
Tue Jun 16, 2015, 01:26 PM
Jun 2015

Brienne and Lady Stoneheart?

No idea, though. He's in the Riverlands in the book as it ends, but was there for most of the book and never went to Dorne.

Solly Mack

(90,767 posts)
166. I don't know. Probably not LS in the show.
Tue Jun 16, 2015, 02:54 PM
Jun 2015

But I think something is going to facilitate his leaving KL and the child's death might be the thing.

herding cats

(19,564 posts)
173. That's a good speculation!
Tue Jun 16, 2015, 10:40 PM
Jun 2015

Maybe he'll take Trystane with him in an attempt to save him from Cersei's wrath? Not that that's likely in this series, we're more likely to see his head on a pike than see him be saved from Cersei.

Solly Mack

(90,767 posts)
177. lol That's more likely.
Tue Jun 16, 2015, 11:20 PM
Jun 2015

Could be he stays around while Cersei angers the people more and more.

He slit one throat to save the city...maybe another? This would play into what TorchtheWitch said above. Jaime as the valonqar instead of Tyrion. Jaime was born second to Cersei, making him her little brother by minutes.

TorchTheWitch

(11,065 posts)
175. in the books I always thought her "valonqar" would be Jamie
Tue Jun 16, 2015, 11:01 PM
Jun 2015

Cercei always believes that it's Tyrion since "valonqar" means "little brother," but Jamie is also her little brother since Cercei was born first and Jamie second holding onto her foot.



Solly Mack

(90,767 posts)
176. I wondered about that too. Because he is younger.
Tue Jun 16, 2015, 11:13 PM
Jun 2015

It could be anyone who is a younger sibling, because Maggy doesn't say your little brother - just that it will be a little brother.

Then some speculate that Maggy could have gotten the gender wrong or that the word valonqar is gender neutral...so it could be a little sister.

I don't know. But I do think the valonqar being Jaime is a possibility.

NewJeffCT

(56,828 posts)
62. Yes
Sun Jun 14, 2015, 10:13 PM
Jun 2015

I hated that end to the book as well. I'm still waiting for the damn cliffhanger to resolve and it's been almost 4 years now!!

herding cats

(19,564 posts)
76. I keep wanting to write a Dear John letter to GRRM. He really deserves it.
Sun Jun 14, 2015, 10:56 PM
Jun 2015

It would go something like:

GRRM, It pains me to write this to you but, I'm leaving you. Don't act surprised, we both know we've seen this coming for years now. Yes, it was HBO's Game of Thrones that lured me away. How could you not see this coming? I'm sorry, but you've just not been there for me, and they've promised me they will be back next season. They've earned my trust. You, in the meantime, have released chapters I know you wrote years ago, in an attempt to placate me. Did you think I wouldn't remember? You always underestimated how much attention I paid to your every little detail.

I feel abandoned. Unloved, and unimportant to you. I'm sorry it's come to this, I've really tried to stay loyal to you for all these years. And, I had, until this new series came along. All bright an shiny, rehashing all the things we used to be. It reminded me of the best of you and I, when we were younger and more carefree. Do you remember those days? Before egos and fame came between us? I'll never forget when we first met, it was so long ago now... the beginning of the 90's. What we had was special then. If you'd just have cared about me once, just once in these past four years...we could have made it work. Maybe I expected too much from you? I expected you to publish too soon. I know expecting someone to change only leads to disappointment, but I thought, what with the series and all, you'd at least try to be there for me this one time.

herding cats

(19,564 posts)
86. I, um, had to take a sabbatical from twitter...
Sun Jun 14, 2015, 11:13 PM
Jun 2015

A minor addiction issue, or so some said.

It's free for use, though. Help yourself!

herding cats

(19,564 posts)
126. He wont' be the first painfully slow author I've followed who passed before finishing.
Mon Jun 15, 2015, 12:53 AM
Jun 2015

I don't mind reading a book written off of an authors "notes" before they passed on. But, when you were in your 50's when you started and never managed to get out more than five books, well, that can irk a reader.

In this day and age of publishing, most people know you are expected to pump out a book a year, two years at the most if you're a diva, quality be damned, if you're working a series. If your not a diva, you'd better pump out a book a year, and make your quota on anthologies, etc.

His work is good, but there are other equally good authors out there who keep writing once they start a series. Be it for the love of their craft, inability to get the characters out of their head, or respect of their fans. You keep on writing. It's what you do and who you are, not to mention how you keep your characters alive to yourself and your fans.

myrna minx

(22,772 posts)
137. So everyone is in suspense.
Mon Jun 15, 2015, 08:39 AM
Jun 2015

What a horrible place to be.

On edit- do we know what happens to Arya's wolf, Nymeria? Did I miss it? Or will her wolf return and be her eyes?

NewJeffCT

(56,828 posts)
139. In the books
Mon Jun 15, 2015, 09:29 AM
Jun 2015

Somebody in passing mentions that they have heard a story about a huge pack of wolves led by a huge she-wolf. Most people think this is Nymeria and her huge pack will somehow aid the Starks.

herding cats

(19,564 posts)
75. Mmm hmm.
Sun Jun 14, 2015, 10:54 PM
Jun 2015

Now you can empathize with those of us who have been waiting, what, 4 years? for some resolution.

myrna minx

(22,772 posts)
138. I can only imagine what a long 4 y ears that has been.
Mon Jun 15, 2015, 08:46 AM
Jun 2015

I think Jon will survive. I remember in one of those after the episodes vignettes the producers said they got permission to do the series when they answered GRRM's question correctly:

Who Jon Snow's mother?

I think he plays a very important role. Or I could be wrong and he's as dead as
Ned.

Solly Mack

(90,767 posts)
71. Well, makes sense. We didn't see the sword fall.
Sun Jun 14, 2015, 10:35 PM
Jun 2015

And I think Sansa and Theon came upon them (maybe). Because you can never assume timeline in the show.

Also, it did kind of sound like sword met sword.

Solly Mack

(90,767 posts)
72. Well, Jon Snow might be dead but AA isn't.
Sun Jun 14, 2015, 10:41 PM
Jun 2015

And dammit...he better not be really dead on the show.

I'd pout. I am pouting now.

herding cats

(19,564 posts)
83. If this isn't BS then my theories are shot!
Sun Jun 14, 2015, 11:07 PM
Jun 2015

I don't think I'm going to take this well. Really, I'm not even kidding. I'll make it a point to remove all heavy objects from the room and only view the season premier on an old TV, JIK.

herding cats

(19,564 posts)
98. It was put right there in front of you.
Sun Jun 14, 2015, 11:56 PM
Jun 2015

If you didn't read it now, you know at some point you'd have read it later. We all do that, even when we pinkie swear ourselves we won't, we still do it. It's a product of being bored and strung along for too long.

Chin up fellow fan! The whole concept of it all ending in an "epic" battle is expected, but also too predictable. It seems there should be more in the final resolution of all this! We could well be being played with, yet again. Who knows?

Solly Mack

(90,767 posts)
100. It's the not knowing. All these years of not knowing.
Mon Jun 15, 2015, 12:01 AM
Jun 2015

Can we sue GRRM for mental anguish? Alienation of affection? Failure to perform his authorly duties?

herding cats

(19,564 posts)
105. I love the concept!
Mon Jun 15, 2015, 12:11 AM
Jun 2015

Goodness knows he deserves it. As if killing off our most dear protagonist isn't bad enough, then he fails to deliver the product in a timely fashion! There really should be some form of legal remedy to this sort or dereliction of duty, right?

The hours I've spent speculating the outcome of this series should count for something!

herding cats

(19,564 posts)
109. Sadly, you're most likely right.
Mon Jun 15, 2015, 12:25 AM
Jun 2015

He is a mean one. Not that I mind my emotionally invested characters being slaughtered off, so long as it feeds the end plot in a linear way. But, have the decency to do it in a timely fashion for the sake of all that's holy!

The waiting is just beyond cruel at this point!

TDale313

(7,820 posts)
97. I just can't believe Jon Snow's story is done yet.
Sun Jun 14, 2015, 11:53 PM
Jun 2015

All along we've been told his parentage is important. I think he'll be be back... But is it possible in a different body?

Yavin4

(35,438 posts)
151. If Jon Snow is really dead, then there really is no good ending
Mon Jun 15, 2015, 12:06 PM
Jun 2015

This really removes a huge piece of the story.

CaliforniaPeggy

(149,620 posts)
115. Some of the other posts here (yours?) seemed to think he didn't.
Mon Jun 15, 2015, 12:33 AM
Jun 2015

I haven't read the books, so there's a lot I don't know!

For instance, the young girl on the boat who collapsed with the bleeding nostrils. What was that all about? No clue.

Solly Mack

(90,767 posts)
122. The kiss she got on the dock? Recall that?
Mon Jun 15, 2015, 12:42 AM
Jun 2015

Poison. The girl is Cersei Lannister's daughter. It was revenge.

Yeah, I think Jon is reborn.

Solly Mack

(90,767 posts)
130. The woman who kissed her was the partner of Oberyn Martell.
Mon Jun 15, 2015, 01:15 AM
Jun 2015

The man who fought for Tyrion during his trial. The one who got his face all crushed in by the Mountain.

The Mountain is Gregor Clegane, brother to the Hound (the man Arya was traveling with), and a sword of the House Lannister.

Gregor raped and killed Elia Martell Targaryen, Oberyn's sister and Rhaegar Targaryen's wife. Oberyn believes Tywin Lannister gave the order for the deaths of Elia and her kids.

He fought the Mountain for revenge - and died.

So, Oberyn's partner, the woman (Ellaria Sand) who kissed Myrcella, who had been plotting with the Sandsnakes, kissed Myrcella with poison on her lips in hopes of killing her.

The Sandsnakes are the daughters of Prince Oberyn. Five of which belong to Ellaria Sand.

CaliforniaPeggy

(149,620 posts)
131. Wow, my dear Solly!
Mon Jun 15, 2015, 01:21 AM
Jun 2015

You've really absorbed this.

I remember the fight when Tyrion was accused. And I remember the Hound. It's so complicated.

Thank you.

NewJeffCT

(56,828 posts)
136. The books
Mon Jun 15, 2015, 07:05 AM
Jun 2015

have exponentially more characters in them. For example: Loras (Queen Margaery's brother) is the youngest Tyrell brother in the books - there is also Willas and Garlan Tyrell. On the show, there is only Loras.

herding cats

(19,564 posts)
117. They don't explain it.
Mon Jun 15, 2015, 12:38 AM
Jun 2015

It's important to note (I think) Varys has the best interest for the Kingdom at heart. Whatever that may be. He plays the Game of Thrones, but it doesn't seem to me he's doing it for personal gain as much as for a bigger goal. He wants some kind of security, or maybe stability is a better choice, for the Kingdom as a whole. He's one when faced with the reality of the White Walkers and Winter coming, I would think might want to do the right thing. But, time will tell.

Solly Mack

(90,767 posts)
124. I much prefer him to Littlefinger.
Mon Jun 15, 2015, 12:44 AM
Jun 2015

But I will never forgive him for not saving Ned.

But I do agree Varys seems to want the best for the 7 Kingdoms.

Liberal Veteran

(22,239 posts)
129. I had to watch a late showing. My satellite went out right in the middle of Arya's scene.
Mon Jun 15, 2015, 01:03 AM
Jun 2015

Walk of shame - check
Theon - Jeyne Sansa escape - check
Blind Arya - check
Jon Snow stabbed - check
Sam and Gilly road trip - check
End of Stannis? - most likely

Dorne - Meh, but I feel badly for Myrcella
Selyse - Didn't like her, but at least she ended up having a conscience
Ramsay - despicable as ever

Team Varys/Tyrion - oh, the fun they'll have
Team Jorah/Daario - hopefully will do something interesting

R'hllor - seems to be a bit capricious

Ghost - a no show

CrawlingChaos

(1,893 posts)
134. Aaaaaahhhhhh...... fuck
Mon Jun 15, 2015, 04:32 AM
Jun 2015

Well now, I underestimated how depressing that would be. I feel .... shitty.

This is going to sound like a strange thing to say but I thought Jon Snow never looked more beautiful than in tonight's episode. He (the actor) really is an angelic creature - like something Raphael would have painted.

Why, why, WHY????????? Oh, that's right...



The only substantial moment of satisfaction for me was Arya dispensing with Meryn Trant. That was as brutal as I'd hoped it would be.

I don't think I will watch the walk of shame again. I don't like scenes of extreme humiliation and that seemed to go on forever. Although being delivered into the hands of the new and improved Mountain was nice and ominous. I hope the Mountain's efforts will directed towards obliterating the religious freaks. I hope I can look forward to that.

Well shit, I have to digest all this. ::sigh::

Solly Mack

(90,767 posts)
150. The character (Jon) did seem more relaxed than ever.
Mon Jun 15, 2015, 11:23 AM
Jun 2015

I keep hoping Arya pulls back from the brink but tonight I had my doubts. Her sheer brutality in dispensing of Trant was unnerving. While at the same time, I was glad to see him die a horrible death. I felt conflicted about the walk of shame, as well. Even in the books, it was just so wrong in many ways. And I really dislike Cersei.

Maisie Williams was outstanding in her performance! Every look, every thrust, every movement. She should win an award for her performance tonight. Simply outstanding.


Then back at the House of Black and White, when she thought Jaqen H'ghar was dead, and she was crushed. Him, she cares for.

But I wonder if she just clings to him as a means of survivor. I don't know. Arya's arc is causing me slow agony.

She paired with the Hound for survival, after a less than amicable start, and Jaqen thinks she learned to care for the Hound.

I think maybe she did too. Bonded through the sheer act of survival in a war torn world.

Arya's first bond was to her father and then to Jon. Both warriors. The Hound and Jaqen are/were (maybe/maybe not) warriors.

Nymeria, the Queen, was a warrior. Nymeria, the direwolf, is a warrior.

Warriors die. (and maybe to be reborn)

I need Arya to live, as whole as possible. She's been my favorite for years and years. I can relate to a little girl she-wolf.






CrawlingChaos

(1,893 posts)
168. Arya is a favorite for so many
Tue Jun 16, 2015, 07:32 PM
Jun 2015

I know for me, as a female, she's kind of the gutsy, fearless little girl I wish I'd been - and stood up for others who were weaker (again, that wolf would have been so handy).

Absolutely agree, Maisie Williams did a wonderful job in the finale. She just gets better and better in that role.

Gee Solly Mack, I wish you could have mapped out the course of the series instead of GRRM. I liked your ideas so much better!

Solly Mack

(90,767 posts)
170. Don't tell GRRM that. He'll kill off all the Starks just 'cause he can.
Tue Jun 16, 2015, 08:12 PM
Jun 2015

I adore Arya. Even bloodthirsty Arya. I want her and Jon to be reunited - in a positive way.

Sometimes I worry she'll be sent to kill him (whatever he becomes), as one of the Faceless.





Yavin4

(35,438 posts)
140. TV viewers are now caught up with book readers
Mon Jun 15, 2015, 09:55 AM
Jun 2015

Now you will know why book readers are always crying for the next book.

NewJeffCT

(56,828 posts)
148. There is not much else left to spoil
Mon Jun 15, 2015, 10:59 AM
Jun 2015

We get a bit more in King's Landing with Cersei, Kevan Lannister and GM Pycelle, and another upcoming trial by combat, but there have been so many dropped storylines that it's hard to say if anything will be picked up...

In the books, there is a siege of Meereen going on with invaders from Yunkai & Astapor (two of the cities Dany freed), as well as from some other cities in Essos (Volantis, New Ghis, Old Ghis, etc)... no siege yet, or even an indication that Meereen will be attacked. My guess is that it might be too big for TV and they'll skip it. (Not to mention - no Iron Fleet arriving, either)





Baitball Blogger

(46,711 posts)
149. You should never leave white space below your posts.
Mon Jun 15, 2015, 11:20 AM
Jun 2015

It will save me the trouble of swiping below it to look for spoilers.

Yavin4

(35,438 posts)
153. NewJeffCT, I need your help on this. There are some major holes in the TV show's narrative.
Mon Jun 15, 2015, 12:26 PM
Jun 2015

Okay, there are at some major holes in the TV show's narrative going forward:

1.) When characters die, they take their knowledge with them. Correct? So, if Jon is really dead, how is the Watch or anyone else going to know that Valaryian steel can stop the White Walkers? Who is going to lead the fight against them? Without Jon's knowledge, it's going to be a total route. Yes, Sam knows, but he's gone.

2.) If Snow dies this early, then his parentage really does not matter. Who cares now? Does it really make a difference now?

3.) Where do Theon and Sansa go? Who do they go to? Yes, Sansa knows that Rickon is alive, but she does not know where. How does she find out where Rickon is?

4.) If Brienne is there for Sansa and Theon, where will Brienne take her? Can't take her to the Wall. Can't take her to the Vale. Can't take her to King's Landing? Where?

5.) Jaimie is going to know Myrcella was poisoned, and he's going to go to war with Dorne over it. That has to be his reaction. Right? Killing the princess is an act of war. Does he kill the Dornish ward in turn?

Yes. I have too much invested in this show.

jakeXT

(10,575 posts)
156. some thoughts
Mon Jun 15, 2015, 03:56 PM
Jun 2015

2)Martin on dead characters

Yet when we asked Martin about his A Song of Ice and Fire saga, the author gave a very different answer. “Oh, you think he’s dead, do you?” Martin teased us in an interview in 2011. “My readers should know better than to take anything as gospel.”

And then just a few months ago when we re-asked about the topic, Martin told us: “If there’s one thing we know in A Song of Ice and Fire is that death is not necessarily permanent.”

http://www.ew.com/article/2015/06/14/game-thrones-jon-snow-really-dead


I haven't read the books, but what if Arya and Jon are both from the same mother and father ?
Someone mentioned there is a 5 year age difference between them, so I don't know if it would work.

4) Gwendoline Christie thinks she could pick up the rest of Stannis's army

One, is that there’s all of Stannis’s army there without a leader now, and they’ve actually become disillusioned by him due to his action toward his daughter. It would be fantastic if perhaps Brienne decided she would be best served as a leader and led the army. Or let’s not forget that she has Valyrian steel.
http://watchersonthewall.com/gwendoline-christie-on-briennes-future-stannis-and-the-game-of-thrones-finale/#more-36125

Yavin4

(35,438 posts)
157. Jon Snow has to come back to life otherwise...
Mon Jun 15, 2015, 04:58 PM
Jun 2015

Melissandre has no other purpose. There's no king for her. There's nothing but a bunch of horny dudes at the wall. Shireen's death was for nothing. What about the White Walkers? Longclaw? Ghost?

The story can't move forward without him.

Baitball Blogger

(46,711 posts)
159. Actually, Shireen's death is what brings Melissandre back to the Keep where
Mon Jun 15, 2015, 05:48 PM
Jun 2015

she's in time to take GoT to the next level. Once Stannis' run was over she gave up on that quest entirely, freeing herself for the next big thing to happen on GoT.

NewJeffCT

(56,828 posts)
161. In the books
Tue Jun 16, 2015, 09:39 AM
Jun 2015

she stays behind at the Wall - I think she realized Jon was special somehow and had given up on Stannis earlier. (Shireen and Selyse also stayed behind at the Wall...)

Baitball Blogger

(46,711 posts)
167. Wow. So George Martin really does know where these characters are going.
Tue Jun 16, 2015, 07:32 PM
Jun 2015

Last edited Wed Jun 17, 2015, 11:13 AM - Edit history (1)

He knew Arya would be blind forever. And Jon is in limbo. And the little guy already knows how to warg. Why do I get the impression that special gifts or skills lay in wait for Jon and Arya?

TorchTheWitch

(11,065 posts)
178. In the books Arya isn't blind forever
Wed Jun 17, 2015, 12:36 AM
Jun 2015

And she won't be in the show either. The blindness was both a punishment and a lesson. She learns to use her other senses and various other tricks that blind people use to get around, and she passes a test in the book and gets her vision back. That elevates her to a higher level in her training, and this time she's given a beautiful face and is sent to a mummer's troup to learn from them (probably how to act like different people). In the chapter in The Winds of Winter that Martin released about her she kills Raff the Sweetling at a theater. I think she was also learning to hide her killing activities from her teachers (in the books it's not Jaqen but a guy called "the kindly man" and the other girl is called "the waif&quot . During this time with the mummer's troupe she's also supposed to learn more languages.

In the books all the Stark kids can warg, but they don't realize it except for Arya who figures that out in her training though even from the time that she was traveling with Yoren, Gendry, Hot Pie and the others to the Wall she was having wolf dreams where she becomes Nymeria and hunts with her pack. It's also Nymeria that pulls the dead Lady Catlyn out of the river which is how Thoros (or I think Dondarian?) bring her back to life as Lady Stoneheart. When Arya wakes up from that dream as she's traveling with the Hound she's certain that her mother is dead.

Jon is still wishy-washy about that ability though he knows that when Ghost is near him he gets the same sort of higher senses that wolves have and also a craving for bloody meat. I think he knows more than he wants to admit to himself, and there was one instance during the long time that Ghost and he were separated when he had to climb the Wall that he senses Ghost's return because he starts getting those pre-warging feelings, and jumps up and starts calling for Ghost.

Sansa only occasionally felt Lady was near her or had a few dreams about her, but she's clueless about warging, and probably because Lady is dead. I expect Sansa to die since she lost her wolf permanently through Lady's death.

Rob was also a bit oblivious, and I can't remember if anything was ever said about him having "wolf deams" or anything like that. Doesn't matter since both him and Grey Wind are dead.

Baitball Blogger

(46,711 posts)
180. thank you for that summary.
Wed Jun 17, 2015, 11:17 AM
Jun 2015

I am so glad that I will now wait for the books to be completed before I start to read them because I see now how infuriating it would be to be left on a cliffhanger for years on end.

jakeXT

(10,575 posts)
179. His writing style is 90% gardener and 10% architect
Wed Jun 17, 2015, 03:20 AM
Jun 2015

He talked about how people on the internet have figured out secrets from book one, that will be revealed in book six.
But if he decided long ago the Butler did it, he's not going to change it, because someone figured it out.

Baitball Blogger

(46,711 posts)
181. J.K. Rowling said something similar about the Harry Potter movies,
Wed Jun 17, 2015, 11:19 AM
Jun 2015

and she changed her mind. She said she knew exactly what the last line would be in the last chapter. And then, she changed it.

NewJeffCT

(56,828 posts)
158. Some guesses at answers
Mon Jun 15, 2015, 05:01 PM
Jun 2015

1.) When characters die, they take their knowledge with them. Correct? So, if Jon is really dead, how is the Watch or anyone else going to know that Valaryian steel can stop the White Walkers? Who is going to lead the fight against them? Without Jon's knowledge, it's going to be a total route. Yes, Sam knows, but he's gone.
That should be correct. I would think if The Others and the White Walkers make it over the Wall, then Castle Black is in deep doo-doo. Heck, even with Jon Snow and his sword, they would be in trouble against thousands of them. There are 50 Night’s Watch brothers left at Castle Black, and now the few thousand wildings that made it through won’t be fighting with them.

2.) If Snow dies this early, then his parentage really does not matter. Who cares now? Does it really make a difference now?
While Kit Harington is saying he is dead, that does not mean Jon Snow is done for and he was supposedly in northern Ireland recently. If you remember when The Hound fought Berric Dondarrion, a red priest (Thoros of Myr) was able to resurrect the dead Lord Berric. At the time, Melisandre said he should not be doing that. But, now that Melisandre is at the Wall, she may change her mind and bring him back, and possibly fulfill the prophecy about Azor Ahai. So, maybe he comes back as Azor Ahai and no longer needs to be bound by his oath to the Night’s Watch.

3.) Where do Theon and Sansa go? Who do they go to? Yes, Sansa knows that Rickon is alive, but she does not know where. How does she find out where Rickon is?
Right now, Theon and Sansa do not know that Jon has been killed. Since Sansa does know Jon was Lord Commander, my guess is that she is headed there. No idea on Rickon, but I suspect that Bran may be able to point her in the right direction now that Bran is becoming a powerful greenseer.

4.) If Brienne is there for Sansa and Theon, where will Brienne take her? Can't take her to the Wall. Can't take her to the Vale. Can't take her to King's Landing? Where?
No idea here. Gwendolyn Christie mentioned something about her gathering the remainder of Stannis’ forces and leading them? Maybe she gathers them and joins up with the wilding to retake Winterfell and avenge Jon Snow?

5.) Jaimie is going to know Myrcella was poisoned, and he's going to go to war with Dorne over it. That has to be his reaction. Right? Killing the princess is an act of war. Does he kill the Dornish ward in turn?
I was expecting the ship to start turning around, but Jamie would obviously be outnumbered if he got back to the docks. Plus, they also have Prince Trystane with them who is now their prisoner, and TV Doran Martell’s only heir.

NewJeffCT

(56,828 posts)
172. I guess we're all "Unsullied" now
Tue Jun 16, 2015, 10:27 PM
Jun 2015

meaning, even those of us who have read the books won't know what's going to happen.

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