I spend a lot of time reading the Game of Thrones and A Song and Ice and Fire subreddits. So when massive leaks happen, they usually post a megathread to contain all the spoilers.

For this leak, the megathread is here. Obviously, massive spoilers probably.

https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/4kh923/spoilers_everything_season_6_episode_5_leak/

Since we're only under seven hours away, I haven't read it. I can wait. Brats on the grill, beer, and mojitos are a better method of finding out what happens anyway =)

had a busy Sunday today.

Dany gets back to Mereen. But I wish she'd just get moving back to Westeros.

All the major women have been through hell and back, and have lost everything, been mistreated and humiliated terribly and now they're gotten pissed off. Sansa, Arya, Cercei, Daeneris, and Margaeri There will be hell to pay. Vengeance will be very ugly.

it will be interesting to see how it all plays out over the last 6 episodes (including tonight)

"Yeah, I executed him. And?"

I wonder if there will be some sort of reckoning for her down the road.

should be a good one

"previously on Game of Thrones..."

in the previously on...

he's crafty, though.

He'll sell anyone out if he thinks it'll help his end game.

and Sansa is still silly enough to believe him.

that would be interested.

Even if he was was right about Blackfish.

I kid. I kid.

Say hello!

about the anti-Stark play that makes Joff look good.

Theon gives up his claim.

in support of his sister

I hope she and Theon survive and keep their domain.

I can't wait to see where they go with the fleet. Do they return home eventually to retake the throne? More Yara story line please!

by the Greyjoys. Euron offers himself up to Daenerys with a huge fleet

The ironborn are not fit to rule....fit as lackeys, yes....but never rule.

to Westeros?

She can use them - and keep them in check...but an alliance? No.

Help himself and others.

in his vision - now Bran has to flee

How did Sansa get the info?

Either she trust Jon as she claims, or she doesn't. But lying to Jon means he should never trust her.

She doesn't want to distract Jon from a higher mission?

They cut away before she answered Brienne. Brienne is honest to a fault.

If only because laughter helps.

...and when we are happy about those two, George R.R. Martin will kill one of them off.

Very little about the wildlings in the show match the books.

Tormund is in the books and he is now at the wall but he's not as he appears in the show.

The show's Tormund is a combination of wildlings - in the show Tormund does things other wildlings actually did from the books.

Mance is alive in the books and at Winterfell as the captive of Ramsay Bolton.

Brienne and Tormund may yet die in the books, but it won't be because they like each other. As of now, they don't know the other exist. One is at the wall and the other is nowhere near the wall.

GRRM may kill them off in the books and the show's writers kill them off in their own way.

Lots of dead people

that was an intense ending. Poor Hodor, may he rest in peace.

But then I wanted Summer to survive too.

Which, I know doesn't mean it's going to play out this way in future books. Still, this was a total twist.

Spoliers --->>>[font color=white] In the Inside the Episode, the producers said that they got the lowdown on Hodor's origin and death from Martin in a meeting. So while some of the details may be different in the books, it should play out in a pretty similar fasion. [/font]

What an intense ending! He held that door like a boss.

but never as Bran the cause. Only "hold the door".

This must be a real thrill ride for you now.

to us bookreaders.

But, they already went beyond the books in places last season - the burning of Shireen Baratheon, the suicide of her mother, Selyse, the death of Jojen Reed and Barristan Selmy, and elsewhere.

I much prefer the plot line in the books.

I'm more frustrated because we don't get to read about it before we see it happen on the show.

that it makes so many of the story lines in the books seem pointless. Also frustrating.

Victarian/Euron/Dragon Horn

Brienne at the Wall. (Brienne/Jaime/Lady Stoneheart)


I worry that GRRM will be lazy and adapt the remaining books to match the show. If he bothers finishing the books at all. I'm losing faith.

from the books and not in the show will play important roles in books 6 and 7 - I think Garlan Tyrell was one he mentioned.

It makes sense, and I'm betting it's what GRRM had intended. Hodor lived his entire life to be a hero in that one moment.

Let me ask, what did you think of when Meera threw that spear into the White Walker and and it exploded? I think that could potentially be a thing down the road. After all, one of the children of the forest had just tried the same thing and the White Walker took the spear out of its chest like it was nothing.

The exploding ice trick only seems to work for a select few.

and that particular CotF didn't.


Dragon glass and valyrian steel kill them, so maybe Meera's spear point is made of valyrian steel?

What was odd, to me, was how he blew up like he did. When Sam stabbed the one in the back with the dragonglass knife it slowly froze from the point of the wound, then blew apart.

Maybe it was Valyrian steel like Jon's sword? I'm skeptical due to how rare the metal is, though. Is there another documented incident of killing a White Walker with Valyrian steel that I don't recall? Maybe it's the subtle difference between how the two substances destroys White Walkers?

The older the more explosive the death?

I don't know. Could be the substance used. I just don't know.

Truth be told, I'm probably picking an imaginary nit.

I've had a somewhat difficult time adapting from the books to the TV series. Different styles all together, and I need to learn to not be so literal, more than likely.

in the relation to the books but the show drives me nuts at times.

The thing is, almost any little difference is all too often significant and needs examining - because GRRM wrote it that way. So those of us who have read the books put the same energy into the show even though the show isn't flowing along those same lines.

I find it frustrating and I've become annoyed with the show lately.

I'm going to miss Hodor.

I will miss him too.

He's still alive in the books, so far.

Dany moving back to Meereen, the Ironborn making a fleet, Yara & Theon escaping, Jon leaving Castle Black, etc.

I think it might look that way when she aligns herself with the GreyJoys, but that will change when the cold ones become the enemy.

that GRRM has set us all up, portraying his penultimate villain as sympathetic to this point and getting us all to root for her. There's just one problem that is becoming apparent...she's her father's daughter and not in a good way. She seems to have inherited his capriciousness and his habit of burning people that she perceives as enemies alive, whether warranted or not.

I'm convinced that Bran will ride one. How can he do that if they are loyal to Dany?

the characters are not quite as black and white as they are on the show -

Other than his drinking, show Tyrion is smart, crafty and a good person. Book Tyrion drinks, but also continued his liking of prostitutes and had Bronn kill a minstrel that he thought was spending too much time around Shae.

A lot of people on westeros.org think Dany is going down the "Mad Queen" path in regards to some of her decision making.

Capricious yes, but nowhere near the level of extreme paranoia that Aerys had. And all of her violence is directed towards furthering her political agenda, or striking back at declared enemies - She's not torturing and murdering people for kicks the way her father was said to have.

I see Dany (especially her story in Mereen) as more of a case of failing to follow Machiavelli's advice. He said that if you can be loved and feared so much the better, but fear is more reliable if you can't manage both. Above all, don't let yourself become hated. Dany's foreign contempt for Mereenese culture and her idealistic uprooting of slavery have the hatred covered, while her many compromises and half-measures to placate the elite have left her weak.

Also, I think her role in the endgame will be more on the high fantasy side (fighting the ice army with her dragons) than the political. An outright heel turn seems unlikely.

That might have been the best episode yet.

No wasted space, and they managed to push forward the plot and the character development at the same time.

This was so much more painful than the red wedding.

Stop killing the direwolves you damned show!

Also:

https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--Ns5MqkMv--/c_fit,fl_progressive,q_80,w_636/xsknhcios6ofmxhbwusl.gif

Perhaps, gives the reader the idea that there are no more direwolf allies, unless...

And I still hold out hope that the thing with Shaggydog was a fakeout.

I mean, it's not like the Stark kids have had the greatest luck but having their direwolves near, I think, keeps them centered. Look how much shit Sansa had to suffer before she finally found her power. Some folks think she was weak and shallow but I think her tribulations were because monster Joffrey had Lady killed.

And then she became my favorite.

She's naive and trusting and sometimes impatient with others.

She doesn't think people around her mean her harm until it's too late.

That seems very real to me.

Hodor's life and goodness touches all of us.

It bothers me that Ned led Catelyn think
Jon was his bastard. Why couldn't he tell his wife the truth?

Or did he?

Did Catelyn dislike Jon because she knew his real parentage and knew he had a better claim to the throne than her children?

I hadn't really thought about Cat disliking Jon for that reason - my guess is that Lyanna made Ned promise that he would tell nobody about Jon, and Ned took that seriously, so did not even tell Catelyn.

The most accepted theory of Jon's parentage is that he's the child of Lyanna Stark and Rhaegar Targaryen, which would have made him the rightful heir to the iron throne. The books clearly explain (as does the TV show, to a lesser extent) that the Targaryen's weren't simply defeated, they were EXTERMINATED. Robert Baratheon and his followers wanted to ensure that no Targaryen's could pop up later to try and claim the throne back, so they hunted down and killed every Targaryen child, bastard and cousin that could conceivably make a play at some later point. They even hired assassins to kill Dany and her brother overseas, because simply allowing them to live was a problem.

If Jon Snow is indeed Rhaegar's kid, then he's the highborn heir to the Iron Throne and the rightful ruler of Westeros, by their law. Robert Baratheon may have been Ned Starks friend, but there is no way that he could have allowed the child to live. And even if he had, through some unimaginable stretch of generosity, decided to allow a competing king to be raised within a noble house, it's hard to believe that the Lannisters would have been so generous. Do you believe that Cirsei would have allowed Jon Targaryen to live in Winterfell, knowing that he had the legal right to strip her children of their titles and throne?

Keeping his lineage a secret was the only way to keep him alive. But keeping his lineage a secret was ALSO treason, and carried the penalty of death. If Jon's lineage had ever been discovered, Ned would have been executed. By lying to Catelyn, Ned ensured that she wasn't privy to his crime, and that she wouldn't be executed alongside of him. If she knew the truth, it would have placed her life at risk. He loved Catelyn so much that he'd rather endure her disappointment over the bastard, than endanger her life by including her in his treason.

In the five books of A Song of Ice and Fire, Hodor has been a gentle giant of a man who can only say the word “Hodor.” Nobody could really explain why he did that, but that was all he could say. Think of Groot from Guardians of the Galaxy, who could only say, “I am Groot,” but Hodor was a 7 foot tall giant of a man instead of a walking tree. He was pretty much a simpleton – getting terrified by lightning, forgetting to put his pants on, forgetting he was carrying Bran on his back and so on and so forth. People claimed he could speak in the past, but nobody could ever explain why the stable boy Hodor lost the ability.

It has basically been the same on the TV show – he was a minor, but beloved, character who carried lordling Bran Stark around after Bran lost the use of his legs.

This season, Bran Stark learned that he could have visions of the past, the present and the future through his dreams.
One of these visions was a young Hodor playing outside of Winterfell. He could talk and his name was Willis. However, while Bran was dreaming of this young Hodor from 30 or so years ago, Bran, Hodor and several others were attacked by the white walkers and their wight allies (the WW are sentient, smart and powerful undead creatures, while the wights are essentially fast moving zombies)

In the process of escaping, Meera Reed was carrying Bran while he dreamed of young Hodor. While they were escaping, the huge Hodor was told to “Hold the Door” for the escaping Bran Stark and Meera Reed. They were screaming it so loudly that it carried into the dream and overwhelmed dream Hodor from the past, and the yelling to Hold the Door overwhelmed his brain and all he could say was “Hold the Door” which became “Hodor,” as he said it quickly.

As the show ended, the wights finally overwhelmed the door and tore him apart, but his being able to Hold the Door for long enough enabled Bran and Meera to escape. So, basically, Hodor’s entire adult life of 30 or so years was a time loop where what happened in the present affected his past and led him up to that hold the door moment.

Little story here is a brilliant bit of creativity.

Hodor lives!!!!

I love these time travel elements, and it reminds me of what is happening on Outlander. While I haven't read the Outlander books, I suspect that Claire and Jamie will end up affecting the future in exactly the opposite way they intend, but which correlates with the historical narrative: to wit, they discourage the financial investment in Bonnie Prince Charles and the Jacobites, hopefully preventing the rebellion that will ultimately kill Jamie, but instead, cause an under-investment in said war which, of course, results in the failure.

I read the first two books of the series, but gave up on it because the books made Jamie out to be almost an 18th century Superman, it seemed. Everything he did, he excelled at.

But, I think what they've done hasn't altered actual historical events (supposedly, they go to America and try to affect the revolution there in future books...)

with this description.

that Hodor heard cries from the future, how will the scene where Bran thought that Ned heard him play out?

Let's speculate about what Bran may do in the past to affect Ned. Will it affect his story about Jon's parentage? Does Bran visit the scene where Ned is handed baby Jon, and Bran says or does something that affects Ned's decision-making?

Oh, and maybe future/present Bran visits past-Bran climbing the wall and is responsible for Jamie detecting him! Wouldn't that be something.

that would be horrible.

But, while Hodor died valiantly and bought Bran and Meera time to escape, how far ahead could a teenage girl get carrying a teen boy who can't use his legs? Hodor was huge and strong. Meera - while a very good warrior - is not exactly 300 pounds and 7 feet tall. How far ahead could the two of them have gotten? Those wights can move awfully fast and probably don't tire out very easily.

Largely because, unless you structure your entire story around time travel/paradoxes, it can come off as a cheap deus ex machina-type device.

But I also think that Bran's ability to influence the past is extremely limited. Bloodraven pretty much tells him that the past is set, and any case where he seems to have affected it already happened that way., which pretty much fits the stable time loop nature of the Hodor incident. Also, I think that Bran's influence in the past is basically limited to being vaguely detectable to certain perceptive individuals. Hodor was just an unusual circumstance where his past self seems to have made a bridge (through Bran's presence) to his own future. So he had to cope with being in two times/places at once, while having an intruder in his head, while also witnessing his own violent and terrifying death.

in the scene with Ned walking up the stairs, Bran thought that somehow Ned knew he was there, didn't he?

the hit musical Hamilton.

http://hellogiggles.com/hamofthrones-got-hamilton-mashup/

http://nerdist.com/some-of-our-favorites-from-hamofthrones-the-game-of-throneshamilton-mash-up/

I am so far behind (season 2 actually) but that was because I've read the books. But now it looks like the show has passed the books.