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Cleita

(75,480 posts)
Fri Mar 13, 2015, 01:06 PM Mar 2015

Anybody know why this is happening on the Central Coast?

I'm a member of the Black Gold Cooperative System, which is our local public library. In order to get materials from them, I frequent their website which I access by a personal number and password. Today, when I went to access information on a couple of audiobooks I requested, I got this message after entering my account information:

The feature you have selected is associated with personal data in your patron account. Such data may be accessed by law enforcement personnel without your consent. Do you wish to continue?"


Then I have the choice to answer yes or no. I answered yes because I wanted access to my information, but started thinking about it and feeling very uneasy about why the police would want to access this. Any thoughts anybody? Or, do you know why and when this became policy or God forbid, law?
22 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Anybody know why this is happening on the Central Coast? (Original Post) Cleita Mar 2015 OP
I would call the library, and ask them. leveymg Mar 2015 #1
The FBI has been able to access library records for a long time leftofcool Mar 2015 #2
Didn't this come about from the Patriot Act? arcane1 Mar 2015 #3
I'm pretty sure it did. Mr.Bill Mar 2015 #8
Yes, and my library responded by scrubbing/dumping all history older then 24 hrs Brother Buzz Mar 2015 #9
Ban books or watch the people who read them? yallerdawg Mar 2015 #4
Really, it simply states the reality of the situation. Jackpine Radical Mar 2015 #5
Some of the librarys don't keep patrons back reading list but delete them from time to time. shraby Mar 2015 #7
Agree with the comments above, re: it's likely an FYI, full disclosure of existing law. pinto Mar 2015 #6
So I've been a member for about fifteen years and access the website Cleita Mar 2015 #12
I'd ask the library management first. They may have some explanation. pinto Mar 2015 #13
I do believe this is fascist. Cleita Mar 2015 #14
A library that values individual freedoms will delete the information Android3.14 Mar 2015 #10
I think you may be overstating the "fascist state" point of view. pinto Mar 2015 #11
Then you haven't been paying attention Android3.14 Mar 2015 #15
The DOJ's report was clear in lining out the systemic problems in Ferguson. Actions are on going. pinto Mar 2015 #18
I would second the suggestion to give them a call or send them an email, petronius Mar 2015 #16
All I've done is reserve audiobooks that are already out, getting on the cue so to Cleita Mar 2015 #17
Please do let us know what you find out - I'd like to be confident that our local petronius Mar 2015 #20
Going to the library now. Will get back to you when I get some answers. Cleita Mar 2015 #21
So I talked to the librarian on duty, who was able to tell Cleita Mar 2015 #22
Probably a gag order bananas Mar 2015 #19

leveymg

(36,418 posts)
1. I would call the library, and ask them.
Fri Mar 13, 2015, 01:11 PM
Mar 2015

It may be a good thing that your local librarians are trying to warn you that you're subject to being snooped on by gov't agencies with secret administrative warrants. But, I thought everyone knew this since about 2006.

leftofcool

(19,460 posts)
2. The FBI has been able to access library records for a long time
Fri Mar 13, 2015, 01:12 PM
Mar 2015

At least since the late 1960's although not electronically of course. It is probably just a required notice so you know that they can be accessed.

Brother Buzz

(36,444 posts)
9. Yes, and my library responded by scrubbing/dumping all history older then 24 hrs
Fri Mar 13, 2015, 02:06 PM
Mar 2015

Sad, when they switched from old school card checkout system to electronic, I was to be able to search my history and view the books I've read, but forgot about.

Jackpine Radical

(45,274 posts)
5. Really, it simply states the reality of the situation.
Fri Mar 13, 2015, 01:17 PM
Mar 2015

The Feds got access to library information early in the WOT. They can access your records & the library is forbidden to inform you of the inquiry. Librarians were incensed about this, and found ways to fight back.

This warning is probably just there as a caution intended to remind you of the law, and that your actions are theoretically open to police surveillance.

shraby

(21,946 posts)
7. Some of the librarys don't keep patrons back reading list but delete them from time to time.
Fri Mar 13, 2015, 01:34 PM
Mar 2015

I couldn't get the name of a book I had read sometime earlier because of it. I couldn't remember the name of the book and thought they might be able to help me. Nope, not a chance...they didn't have a record of it.

Cleita

(75,480 posts)
12. So I've been a member for about fifteen years and access the website
Fri Mar 13, 2015, 04:52 PM
Mar 2015

several times a week including yesterday. Why today did they decide to inform me? Sure I will have to start asking questions, but thought maybe someone, who has been following the County Board of Supervisors and other law makers might know something. We do have a newly elected Tea Party member of the Board.

pinto

(106,886 posts)
13. I'd ask the library management first. They may have some explanation.
Fri Mar 13, 2015, 04:58 PM
Mar 2015

It's a simple, legit query, imo. ("What's this notice mean?&quot

Cleita

(75,480 posts)
14. I do believe this is fascist.
Fri Mar 13, 2015, 05:31 PM
Mar 2015

The police have no right to access my personal information without a search warrant anymore than they should rummage through my makeup bag or purse for that matter without a search warrant. Also, I believe I have a right to know if they have been given some permission to do so without my consent. If they don't need permissions, then something really reeks of police state and I have lived in a police state and know what it smells like.

 

Android3.14

(5,402 posts)
10. A library that values individual freedoms will delete the information
Fri Mar 13, 2015, 02:40 PM
Mar 2015

Mrs. 'Droid is a librarian, and when the Patriot Act came along with this little fascist nugget, her library joined most ethical libraries in removing the checkout data from the book record. This means that your patron record has a list of the books you checked out, but the book entry no longer has a record of the patrons who checked out the book. The book entry only lists the last person to checkout the book.

It's not a complete solution to a fascist state looking at our reading habits, but at least they can't go to the Anarchist's Cook Book record and pull a list of everyone who checked it out.

pinto

(106,886 posts)
11. I think you may be overstating the "fascist state" point of view.
Fri Mar 13, 2015, 04:41 PM
Mar 2015

I get your gist, but hyperbole in this instance serves no one. I think it's a stretch.

 

Android3.14

(5,402 posts)
15. Then you haven't been paying attention
Fri Mar 13, 2015, 08:21 PM
Mar 2015

I'm sure the people of Ferguson think it's all hyperbole as well. </sarcasm>

I toyed briefly with the idea that your post was convoluted sarcasm, but it sounds like you are serious.

<07>

pinto

(106,886 posts)
18. The DOJ's report was clear in lining out the systemic problems in Ferguson. Actions are on going.
Fri Mar 13, 2015, 11:06 PM
Mar 2015

The local PD is out of the picture as far as 1st Amendment free speech demonstrations go. Last night's gatherings were on the whole peaceful and unfettered by law enforcement. All has been widely documented by the media. I don't think we've seen the end of this by any means. The incident and the communities response clearly call for change. I think it will start with Ferguson and go on from there.

Find me a Mussolini in this scenario and I'll consider your claim of fascism. Otherwise I feel you're adopting the situations to fit some pre-conceived agenda.

Let it play out - in the communities, the various agencies and the public at large. You just might be surprised at the results of it all.

petronius

(26,602 posts)
16. I would second the suggestion to give them a call or send them an email,
Fri Mar 13, 2015, 09:17 PM
Mar 2015

but perusing the privacy policy it seems like the two areas in which they may save info are

In order to improve the usefulness of our site for visitors, we automatically collect and maintain statistical information about your visit to our web site and our library catalog, www.blackgold.org. This information includes the IP address of the visitor, the computer and web browser type, the pages used, the time and date, and any errors that occurred. We collect this information in our internal web site logs and in the Google Analytics external logging service. This information is used for internal reporting purposes. No attempt is made to identify individual users unless illegal behavior is suspected. We monitor network traffic to identify unauthorized attempts to upload or change information or otherwise cause damage to our web service. These security measures ensure that the web site remains available to use for your library needs.

and

Your account in the system contains information about current hold requests, items checked out, items overdue, and fines. Once items are returned and fines are paid, this information is removed from your account. By default, the library does not keep a history of previous books checked out on your account. Optional services allow you to save book lists, save searches, and maintain a permanent reading list. This information is confidential and will not be shared with anyone unless required by court order. This information will not be used for any commercial purposes. You can delete optional features at anytime by changing your account options.

https://www.blackgold.org/polaris/custom/privacy2.html

The second one seems more relevant - did you access or activate any of those optional services recently - saving a search or a book list or something?

(I'd log in myself to check it out, but I seem to have misplaced my library card and ID number... )

Cleita

(75,480 posts)
17. All I've done is reserve audiobooks that are already out, getting on the cue so to
Fri Mar 13, 2015, 09:25 PM
Mar 2015

speak. I don't save searches or maintain a permanent reading list. Now the court order mandate seems logical, but wouldn't it mean that they have to notify me? I guess I'm going to have to ask questions. I know I'm not being singled out and that it should be the same for everyone. It just seems not so kosher to me that law enforcement doesn't have to tell you they are searching your records.

petronius

(26,602 posts)
20. Please do let us know what you find out - I'd like to be confident that our local
Sun Mar 15, 2015, 01:26 AM
Mar 2015

libraries are living up to best practices in privacy and civil liberties protection...

Cleita

(75,480 posts)
21. Going to the library now. Will get back to you when I get some answers.
Tue Mar 17, 2015, 06:08 PM
Mar 2015

Also, the notice has disappeared since I posted this.

Cleita

(75,480 posts)
22. So I talked to the librarian on duty, who was able to tell
Sat Mar 21, 2015, 08:29 PM
Mar 2015

me that it was because of the Patriot Act. Well, that's not a mystery, but he said it was only if I made a list or kept track of my borrows. So since I do neither why was I given a warning? He couldn't answer that.

On another note I watched Citizenfour today about the Edward Snowden story and it's pretty scary just how wide a net our government is throwing into snooping into the daily lives of common people. It's all allowed because of this legislation, the Patriot Act, which I think should be repealed because it's unconstitutional and frankly not patriotic.

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