Hillary Clinton
Related: About this forumPolls Say Bernie Is More Electable Than Hillary. Don’t Believe Them.
Cant believe this today.... she will win... time for you to go home maybe Trump and you Bernie can fly home on his big plane........one way.....
Nothing will take us down today because we are strong and together until the end...
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2016/04/polls_say_bernie_is_more_electable_than_hillary_don_t_believe_them.html
Cary
(11,746 posts)Of course it's moot at this point. Sanders is done. But it's a good summary of why emoprog discord and discontent is pure b.s.
Walk away
(9,494 posts)No one in the Democratic party ever mentions Sanders negatively. They want to keep the party together. If Trump decides to accuse Bernie on his Castro friendly and Moscow filled past and then pulls the curtain back on his non-record, Bernie would be toast!
Squinch
(50,955 posts)side. Their ratings required it.
Gothmog
(145,293 posts)Trump would have a very easy time with Sanders. Dana Milbank has some good comments on general election match up polls https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/democrats-would-be-insane-to-nominate-bernie-sanders/2016/01/26/0590e624-c472-11e5-a4aa-f25866ba0dc6_story.html?hpid=hp_opinions-for-wide-side_opinion-card-a%3Ahomepage%2Fstory
Watching Sanders at Monday nights Democratic presidential forum in Des Moines, I imagined how Trump or another Republican nominee would disembowel the relatively unknown Vermonter.
The first questioner from the audience asked Sanders to explain why he embraces the socialist label and requested that Sanders define it so that it doesnt concern the rest of us citizens.
Sanders, explaining that much of what he proposes is happening in Scandinavia and Germany (a concept that itself alarms Americans who dont want to be like socialized Europe), answered vaguely: Creating a government that works for all of us, not just a handful of people on the top thats my definition of democratic socialism.
But thats not how Republicans will define socialism and theyll have the dictionary on their side. Theyll portray Sanders as one who wants the government to own and control major industries and the means of production and distribution of goods. Theyll say he wants to take away private property. That wouldnt be fair, but it would be easy. Socialists dont win national elections in the United States .
Sanders on Monday night also admitted he would seek massive tax increases one of the biggest tax hikes in history, as moderator Chris Cuomo put it to expand Medicare to all. Sanders, this time making a comparison with Britain and France, allowed that hypothetically, youre going to pay $5,000 more in taxes, and declared, W e will raise taxes, yes we will. He said this would be offset by lower health-insurance premiums and protested that its demagogic to say, oh, youre paying more in taxes.
Well, yes and Trump is a demagogue.
Sanders also made clear he would be happy to identify Democrats as the party of big government and of wealth redistribution. When Cuomo said Sanders seemed to be saying he would grow government bigger than ever, Sanders didnt quarrel, saying, P eople want to criticize me, okay, and F ine, if thats the criticism, I accept it.
Sanders accepts it, but are Democrats ready to accept ownership of socialism, massive tax increases and a dramatic expansion of government? If so, they will lose.
Match up polls are worthless because these polls do not measure what would happen to Sanders in a general election where Sanders is very vulnerable to negative ads.
Gothmog
(145,293 posts)These match up polls are worthless but they are all that Sanders has to make the electablity argument. Here is a good thread talking about these polls See http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1107&pid=115859
LiberalFighter
(50,943 posts)Many of them have considerable experience with campaigns and know the difference between primary and general election campaigns.
BlueMTexpat
(15,369 posts)Sanders. As many of us have learned to our chagrin, to know Bernie is not necessarily to love him.
LiberalFighter
(50,943 posts)They are either at the top level of the party or have access. And thereby have knowledge of how others play. They also have a better understanding of why ideas can or won't work related to what the President and get done on their own or needed with cooperation from Congress.
BlueMTexpat
(15,369 posts)has taught me that SDs are working out exactly as they were designed to.
fleabiscuit
(4,542 posts)Her Sister
(6,444 posts)That's why they've seem to have done better in "polls"
People have gotten to know the Creepy-ness of Cruz but even he hasn't been vetted as much but we do know he is creepy. His own young daughter seems to not like him much. But no one knows he has had only one election in his life!
TRUMP has been given a lot of publicity and we know he is a racist and Bad news all around.
HRC has been attacked and smeared since the 1990's. and She has the most votes. Nothing thrown at HER will ever be believed b/c throwing stuff at her has been a sport. SO HER VOTERS KNOW THAT. At this point, anyone that tries to throw anything at her will have it thrown back! JUST BACKFIRES MAN! GIVE IT UP! MAKES YOU STINK!
WE KNOW HER! VOTING FOR HER!
HRC READY!
Freddie
(9,267 posts)The Repugs would throw everything they can find (and there's a lot to find) at Bernie and it will stick.
What else can they dig up on Hillary that hasn't been already examined ad nauseum, and she's still standing proudly.
Can't wait to vote after work today!
SharonClark
(10,014 posts)If they did he'd have a bigger struggle on his hands.
He must think automatic delegates are stupid.
savalez
(3,517 posts)The polls I've seen say HRC would win.
pandr32
(11,588 posts)Quoted from the "Republicans haven't yet trashed him" hyperlink to the linked Vox article.
Sanders must either think we are all very gullible, or he is delusional himself. Perhaps his ego will not permit him to acknowledge that he would be cut down to bleed out if he were to wander into the battlefield with Republicans.
On the other hand, Hillary has already survived multiple battles with Republicans and has emerged stronger. All they have to fight her with now is the ammunition Sanders has been supplying them with--the main reason that to date they have let Sanders alone.
savalez
(3,517 posts)THIS GUY
BS is his only chance for a Repug win.
Gothmog
(145,293 posts)These match up polls are worthless but they are all that Sanders has to make the electablity argument. Here is a good thread talking about these polls http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511038010
The reliance on these polls by Sanders supporters amuse me. http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/harrys-guide-to-2016-election-polls/
Sanders supporters have to rely on these worthless polls because it is clear that Sanders is not viable in a general election where the Kochs will be spending $887 million and the RNC candidate may spend an additional billion dollars.
No one should rely on hypo match up type polls in selecting a nominee at this stage of the race. Sanders would be a very weak general election candidate
Gothmog
(145,293 posts)Dana Milbank has some good comments on general election match up polls https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/democrats-would-be-insane-to-nominate-bernie-sanders/2016/01/26/0590e624-c472-11e5-a4aa-f25866ba0dc6_story.html?hpid=hp_opinions-for-wide-side_opinion-card-a%3Ahomepage%2Fstory
Watching Sanders at Monday nights Democratic presidential forum in Des Moines, I imagined how Trump or another Republican nominee would disembowel the relatively unknown Vermonter.
The first questioner from the audience asked Sanders to explain why he embraces the socialist label and requested that Sanders define it so that it doesnt concern the rest of us citizens.
Sanders, explaining that much of what he proposes is happening in Scandinavia and Germany (a concept that itself alarms Americans who dont want to be like socialized Europe), answered vaguely: Creating a government that works for all of us, not just a handful of people on the top thats my definition of democratic socialism.
But thats not how Republicans will define socialism and theyll have the dictionary on their side. Theyll portray Sanders as one who wants the government to own and control major industries and the means of production and distribution of goods. Theyll say he wants to take away private property. That wouldnt be fair, but it would be easy. Socialists dont win national elections in the United States .
Sanders on Monday night also admitted he would seek massive tax increases one of the biggest tax hikes in history, as moderator Chris Cuomo put it to expand Medicare to all. Sanders, this time making a comparison with Britain and France, allowed that hypothetically, youre going to pay $5,000 more in taxes, and declared, W e will raise taxes, yes we will. He said this would be offset by lower health-insurance premiums and protested that its demagogic to say, oh, youre paying more in taxes.
Well, yes and Trump is a demagogue.
Sanders also made clear he would be happy to identify Democrats as the party of big government and of wealth redistribution. When Cuomo said Sanders seemed to be saying he would grow government bigger than ever, Sanders didnt quarrel, saying, P eople want to criticize me, okay, and F ine, if thats the criticism, I accept it.
Sanders accepts it, but are Democrats ready to accept ownership of socialism, massive tax increases and a dramatic expansion of government? If so, they will lose.
Match up polls are worthless because these polls do not measure what would happen to Sanders in a general election where Sanders is very vulnerable to negative ads.