INSKEEP: One more question along those lines, and this is my question now — you told Chuck Todd of NBC the other day that if Secretary Clinton does clinch the nomination quote "the responsibility will be on Secretary Clinton, to convince all people," not just your supporters, "that she is the kind of president this country needs." Are you convinced, Senator?

SANDERS: Well I thought my point was, that it's true of Secretary Clinton, it's true of Bernie Sanders, it is true of Donald Trump — you want to go out and win elections, you've got to convince the people of this country that you are the candidate that works best for their interests. And I think there's a lot of work that has to be done on the part of all of the candidates.

INSKEEP: The reason I ask is because you did say earlier in the campaign she was not qualified. Can you convince yourself, or have you convinced yourself, that she is qualified?


SANDERS: Right now — as I have said many times, Steve — I think that a Donald Trump presidency would be a disaster for this country. And I intend to do everything that I can to see that that does not happen.

INSKEEP: Does that mean to say that you would be out this fall if you don't win the nomination, campaigning?

SANDERS: You know, as I just said Steve, I think that a Donald Trump presidency would be a disaster for this country.

I am the most progressive member of the Unites States Senate, I think. I have fought as hard as I can for working people, and I'm not going to see a president come into office like a Donald Trump, who is busy dividing us up in terms of picking on Mexicans, and Latinos, and Muslims, and women, and veterans, and African-Americans. That is not the type of president that we need, and that is not the type of president that I — I will do everything in my power to make sure that he does not become our president,

So, Steve, so — thank you so much...

INSKEEP: Senator? Do you mind if I ask one more question?

SANDERS: One last question. Sure, we got time for one more.

INSKEEP: Yeah just, talk me through — because you said you have tough path, but one that you can walk — I'm just interested about a little bit of the mechanics here.

You'd have to win a lot of delegates — a great majority of delegates along the way to get a majority of pledged delegates. There are some big states ahead — it's certainly true — but just the way delegates are awarded, even if you win California, even if you win West Virginia, you don't get all of the delegates. They're not winner-take-all. Doesn't that make this extraordinarily difficult for you to...

SANDERS: Yes, it's an uphill battle. But you know what? Steve, when I started this campaign, it was an extraordinarily uphill battle — we were 60 points behind Secretary Clinton. Polls out there in the last few weeks, a few had us ahead actually in national polls, or a few points behind. The path to victory is to do extremely well in the remaining states — and as you indicate, California, of course, is the largest state. And we hope to do well there, and win that state.

INSKEEP: Could — and is...

SANDERS: But here is the other path, Steve — you asked me a question, let me give you an answer here — is that we have won a number of states, in Washington and New Hampshire, by landslide victories, and I'm talking about 65, 70, 75 percent of the vote. I think it is incumbent on the superdelegates—

The problem, one of the main problems that we have, is that the establishment Democrats, of course, supporting all of — virtually all of them are supporting Hillary Clinton. I think that in those states where we have won landslide victories, those delegates should reflect the wishes of the people of their state and give us their votes.

And then I think we have got to make the case to the superdelegates, who in many cases, were on board for Hillary Clinton even before I got into the race, that they should take a hard look at which candidate is stronger against Donald Trump. And I think we can make that case.

INSKEEP: Let me follow up on that...

SANDERS: Steve I apologize — one more question, because I've gotta run here.

INSKEEP: Is there a real danger that Donald Trump — now that he's the presumptive Republican nominee — that he's the kind of different candidate who might seriously appeal to the very kinds of voters that you've been appealing to all this time, that you want to bring back to the Democratic Party?

SANDERS: Is that a serious — you mean...

INSKEEP: A real danger of that, yeah, in the fall?

SANDERS: You say a risk? Well, you know as I said a moment ago — what campaigns are about is going out and making a case to the American people. Does Donald Trump have support in this country? Of course he has support — he has won the Republican nomination, so of course he has a lot of support. He has won it overwhelmingly in state after state after state.

INSKEEP: Can he drag Democrats over to the Republican side?

SANDERS: Well the question, I think that's the wrong question, Steve. The question is, why is somebody with Donald Trump's perspective appealing to Democrats?

That gets back to the question we talked about at the beginning of this conversation. Has the Democratic Party, has the leadership made the case that they are standing there, fighting for the poor people of McDowell County, or the working people of Indiana, or of New Mexico, or of California? Have they stood up and said that "maybe we gotta take on the billionaire class, maybe it's wrong that the top one-tenth of 1 percent now owns almost as much wealth as the bottom 90 percent, maybe we should not be getting significant sums of money from Wall Street or from the pharmaceutical industry that charge us the highest prices in the world for prescription drugs," you know, "maybe we've gotta stand with the people who for the last 20 or 30 years have seen a decline in their standard of living"?

You know, those are the issues that the Democratic Party has got to ask itself. And I think when it does, and it makes it clear that they are prepared to take on the big-money interests, I think the Democratic Party will do just fine — and that's kind of what this campaign is about.