I'm feeling the barf.

And, we're in good company.

Hillary has so much experience, knowledge, and qualifications to be POTUS it's phenomenal! This whole "bern" thing has one advantage.. the insults and fabrications are a dress rehearsal for the GE.

sanders is going to be left with all the vacuous insults he hurled while Hillary takes the victory path to the White House.

Gracias for your OP, Cajun~

I don't agree with you. The stuff Bernie stands proudly for is very well supported by a majority of Americans. Yes, he will find a ton of resistance from Republicans but so too, has Barack Obama and he has accomplished HUGE things. A Sanders win would push the discussion in this nation greatly in the direction that most on this list support.
Now, having said all of that, I think Hillary Clinton is a stronger candidate. It worries me to see Karl Rove spending to get Bernie nominated. Though Rove has recently been terribly wrong in his predictions, he seems to be more afraid of Hillary than Bernie. Therefore, I'd rather he face her. Further, Hillary clearly has more experience than Bernie with her having spent 8 years in the White House, having been a Senator and having served as Secretary of State, perhaps her most important experience.

Yes, his platitudes sound wonderful in the ears of people who don't know how our government works. Unless and until Bernie can get more liberal candidates to win from moderate and conservative Dems and pick off a few Republican seats as well for Congress, there's NO WAY he'll get anything through for four years. And yes, he's admitted as much. And no, he's done nada for that important change. Not fundraising. Not recruiting. Not anything.

But if the low turnout in New Hampshire is any indication of his revolution (lower than Barack Obama's in 2008) then all we'll be getting is a lame-duck president for four years who'll get nothing done or who will be forced to compromise with Republicans and Democrats for incremental change - something that's not in his repertoire at the moment.

So Bernie is a bad bet for Democrats and the Democratic Party. I don't know about you, but I'd rather have a president who can get things done. A lame-duck president using the Democratic Party name will seriously damage the Democratic Party's brand.

Did you also know he's registered for re-election in Vermont as an Independent for 2018, not a Democrat? Thought you'd like to know that.

at the number of supposed Dems on DU who have no idea how party politics work.

It's just a nonsense campaign slogan.

Nothing he is putting up will get through the Republican House.

His Presidency would have to count on being two terms - and riding it out until the 2020 census.

Bernie has no plan. He is doing nothing to help win back the state houses and Congress.

I don't think he ever planned to get this far.

And the revolution - it's going to have to wait. One thing I am seeing among Sanders supporters at DU is that there are some that are okay with not getting a lot done during his administration - because it will send a message to the powers that be - that things are going to change. It's going to take awhile.

Eh? Then again - yesterday I read a Victor Hugo quote. From Les Mis?

The poster forgot that it wasn't the French 'Revolution' - it was the Paris Uprising of 1832 (not a national event).

Also forgot that 175 years later that same country elected Sarkozy.


Most important thing the poster forgot? The ending . . . Empty chairs at empty tables.

Ever read the lyrics?

No matter how much some want it, the US, like France in 1789, is not ready for a political revolution. It's been long said that if you attempt to kill the king, you'd best succeed. That saying has its parallels in American politics.

In six months when all the millennials realize his proposals are a scam.

I think they are looking for immediate relief from their onerous student loan debt - and it's not going to be done.

Their parents (Gen X and Boomers) could perhaps be hoping for a tuition free option in September 2017 - but that will rely on Governor's going along with it.

Mark my words - the NJ State and Community colleges would not be included in September 2017. Christie will fight that tooth and nail and will win.

The country will be stuck in the same political gridlock we've been in for years. The only change will be that words like "progressive" and "socialist" will be added to the national vocabulary of deragatory words like "liberal."

I remember that feeling of discoaragement when McGovern lost. At least McGovern was actually proposing things that could be accomplished.

This can't be said enough. The huge war chest the Bernie Bros brag about is going to Bernie only -- he is NOT raising anything for down ticket races. He's using the Dem infrastructure without helping the party as a whole, and yet his followers go on and on about how ethical he is. I don't think trying to win on the back of a party you don't belong to is ethical at all. Especially when you denigrate it as corrupt and idealogically impure as you're using it.

Four things will have to happen for Bernie to have a shot at accomplishing anything:
Step 1: this is the year where most Senators standing for election are Republicans. The current balance of power in the Senate is 54 Republicans, 44 Democrats and 2 independents, one of whom is Bernie Sanders. There are 24 Republican senators standing for election this year; because we are Democrats and Democrats are incapable of agreeing on ANYTHING, we need all 24 seats. Since there are several well-loved (by their constituents anyway) Republican senators running this year, this one won't happen.

Step 2: twelve to fifteen states whose legislatures are either completely controlled by the GOP or are split between the parties would have to flip their statehouses to the Democratic Party by 2020. If you read this chart...

http://www.ncsl.org/Portals/1/Documents/Elections/Legis_Control_2015_Feb4_11am.pdf

...you will see that 30 states belong to the GOP, 11 are ours and nine are divided. We need a majority of the states to shut down the GOP.

Step 3: The Democratic Party would then have to degerrymander all of those states.

Step 4: We would then need a slate of exceptional Democratic candidates in 2022, with a LOT of money behind them, to run against these entrenched Republicans and get them out of there.

Can you say I'm not real impressed with Bernie's chances?

Us winning the house on 2022 and keeping the Senate. That's way far down the road.

Will his supporters stick with him through the first four years of not being able to accomplish much? I'd like to think so - they are pretty passionate.

But many were Obama supporters who are now enraged with him.

He has a list of solid accomplishments during his tenure to date - yet still? RAGE!

The MOST important thing it requires is a shitload of Members of Congress who don't care about their seats. If Sanders manages to drop one tax increase on the American people, even if it doesn't affect the general public, hundreds of EXTREMELY hard-core right-wingers will all run under the same campaign promise: "elect me and I'll impeach the commie in the White House and cut your taxes."

And if Sanders wins the nomination (not likely) we would see a new tactic in the GE. The GOP are trying to help Sanders to beat Clinton right now and it seems to be lulling his supporters who actually think the rest of the election would go as it has so far--only a few media criticisms and Clinton called him "a single issue candidate."
If Sanders were to win the nomination, the GOP will bring out their big guns of scare tactics. They will let loose a flurry: unqualified, wants to add huge government give-away programs--the likes of which we have never seen before, not a Christian, a flip-flopper on gun control, a communist (visited Ortega, Russia, and tried to see Castro in the '80's) who wants to "change America", and wants to heavily raise taxes. They will also add that he has no idea how to keep us safe at home or abroad. Just imagine all the ways they will make these charges: endless memes, ads, talking points--all in bombardment. They have a huge war chest of money and they control the media.
The GOP base and many independents who now support him will freak out and not vote for him. It might actually help their GOTV efforts.
I'm not feeling the Bern either.

We've seen the huge upswell of racism since Obama was elected.
We know what Hillary's put up with since the early '90's.
Don''t think the anti-Semites would sleep through this one. It would be amazing how the republican rat fuckers would incite it.
A 50% nation of Trump zealots would resurrect every Nazi-era Jew-devil image they could find.

I agree. I did mention the fact that it would be an issue that he is not a Christian, but anti-Semitism does tend to swell up from whispers to "Nazi-era Jew-devil" at times within many pockets of people, and the GE probably would be one of those times it would begin--and likely with the help (instigation) of the likes of Beck, Jones, Limbaugh, Fox News, et al.

ignore the media hype. This race is not close, and Sec. Clinton will easily win the nomination.

All this primary has done is show how naive and still-have-much-to-learn the younger generation is. I was the same way 30 years ago, so I'm not judging. It's part of becoming an adult, and whether they like it or not, the clock doesn't stop and the younger voting generation will get older, have kids, experience death, ..., they'll grow up.

there are 48 to go. And guess whose numbers look unassailable for the next month, starting Saturday? Not BS.

Bernie supporters remind me of baseball fans who jump up and down, name call and taunt the other team's fans when their team scores in the early innings. They don't seem to realize that the game runs 9 innings, and that anything can happen. They often end up looking like fools by the 6th inning.

all they've got!

... it's not motivating or persuasive. It reminds me of jeering that one typically hears from the fans of the opposing (underdog) sports team. It says more about the candidate's supporters than the candidate himself, so in that regard, it misses the mark.

It serves only as "self-inspiration" ... but does nothing meaningful to describe what the candidate is for, what he hopes to achieve, and how he plans to get there. In my estimation, it's little more than blowing raspberries, sticking out one's tongue and making nyah-nyah sounds.

Oh well. What can ya do? Let 'em have their fun ... it won't last much longer.

Go, Hillary! We love you!



Note to Jury: This post does not attack or smear any candidate or candidate's supporters. It describes my personal opinions and observations of an unofficial campaign "slogan". The fact that I'm critical of it and that I find it to be uninspiring are not against the rules.

We NEED good Senators.

She will need somebody who is younger so he/she can connect with the younger electorate, and maybe a latino like Joaquim Castro who would galvanize the latino vote in Texas. She does not need a foreign policy heavyweight since she is one, she does not need somebody who is polarizing like Bernie. Yeah, I think Castro or maybe Cory Booker who would be great as well.

The status quo will surely be maintained with her as President.

reality.

Yes, you've been blocked.

in the Hillary Group.

You're quite correct, he's not ready, and it does seem that the electorate is waking up to that fact a little bit. Caution is always required--the electorate can nap off at any moment--but I'm detecting just the faintest hint of the start of erosion in his support.

Several of the assertions made here seem to be inaccurate at best. If you were to poll the American people on the issues Sanders supports - such as single payer/medicare for all, I suspect you would find a majority share such a goal. Or perhaps the idea of paying for college tuition through our tax system - and actually taxing the rich.

I agree of course, that ideals and goals are not enough in and of themselves - that's why I'm glad I'm in the company of a whole lot of other people who want to see real progress - and believe we can accomplish it. Perhaps, for inspiration, we can look to the many other Countries that have accomplished similar things. Perhaps we might even consider our own history, ambitious projects like the moon landing, the building of the interstate system, the development of the world's most powerful economy and military...

"Political revolution" is indeed a catchy slogan, but that is largely because it works so much better than: "Nope, can't do it - so let's not bother trying."

That's some crystal ball the author of this article has... republicans are certain to maintain their domination of the house? They are "likely" (but not certain this time...?) to prevent votes on any legislation in the senate... regardless of which party controls that body. Hmm. Some interesting assumptions there, based no doubt, on an absolute knowledge of future events....

Crusty? Old? I'm sure some point is trying to be made here... but I don't think either of our candidates are particularly young. My advice? Come up with better material for insults. Maybe you could call him "that whacky socialist guy", or, "crazy white haired dude", or something, I don't know, that doesn't imply that one's age should determine their value as President - or anything else. Damn right Sanders is old - and for many years, he has been fighting for the right things, things we, for the most part, democrats in common, want. A lifetime of experience in fighting for the common good, for the common people. Shit, no wonder I support his campaign. .

The future of the democratic party? As long as super PACs and super delegates and super money and super bull shit plays such an immense role, I too, fear for the future of our party. Sanders is someone who could very likely be a game-changer, regarding campaign finance reform, actual democracy in action (no, super delegates are not democratic - no matter how you spin it - and this is regardless of who they support) and perhaps, on occasion, a little honesty.

Sorry, winning is not enough if, after our victory, we snatch defeat from it's jaws by failure to act in accordance with our principles, with our empathy and our courage. When we fail to stand up for what is right, for what we believe in, for our ideals, our passions and our compassion... we do ourselves - and the world at large, a poor service. We surrender our nobility of spirit in return for what is safe, complacent, common... not going to rock the boat. I will stand up and fight for what I want, for what I think all Americans should have - and it's about damn time there was a Presidential candidate who felt the same.

As far as your prediction of a Sanders failure or a Clinton victory... or a republican victory... this isn't over yet, not by any means. It's the votes that count - and the votes haven't been counted yet. Even if Sanders does lose, his campaign will have made history, in support of the common good, of sound social principles, of simple common sense, empathy and compassion... such as has not been done for many, many years.

You don't have to feel the Bern, I think I feel it enough for both of us.

"...Even if Sanders does lose, his campaign will have made history, in support of the common good, of sound social principles, of simple common sense, empathy and compassion... such as has not been done for many, many years...."

Slogans are not measured plans, and he's not unique.

If he wins the nomination, but loses the general election, no one will remember him 50 years from now. Loser are almost swept into the dustbin of history. He will be a footnote in the history books at best.

* the asterisk mentioning the primary opponent of the first woman president.

He will lose the general like George McGovern, and people will definitely remember that.

Bernie's message rings loud and clear.

Yes, you've been blocked.

having too much fun.. sorry!

Gracias flea Hammer of Justice and Freedom~ All of over this land All over this laaaaaaaand! yeah!

But they get boring after a while

Yep, you've been blocked.

I refer to the following narrative from your post:

Sorry, winning is not enough if, after our victory, we snatch defeat from it's jaws by failure to act in accordance with our principles, with our empathy and our courage. When we fail to stand up for what is right, for what we believe in, for our ideals, our passions and our compassion... we do ourselves - and the world at large, a poor service. We surrender our nobility of spirit in return for what is safe, complacent, common... not going to rock the boat.

Please not that I never said that winning is enough. I actually said that everything has to take a back seat to winning before the election because when a party doesn't win, nothing else matters.

But ignoring that and going back to your point, if by some miracle Sanders did the win the general election, he might "accordance with our principles, with our empathy and our courage", but he would still get absolutely nothing done. Then many of his supporters will be criticizing him because he over promised and under performed..

He's left of the DLC/NAFTA/deregulation Party.

Bernie Sanders is an FDR Democrat. Meaning left of Wall Street, left of predatory capitalism, left of low taxes on the wealthy so that the rest of the country has no voice and dwindling public services.

That you perceive him as far left is a symptom of what the Clinton type of Democrat did to the party post-Reagan, when they figured out that by throwing some bones to the people, you too could win elections by making the funders of big-money PACS your real constituency.

Bernie represents the Great Restoration.

And one that is badly needed.

He has not aided in building the party at all, ever, and now gleans from what he rails against.

Yep you've been blocked.

Democrat at all. He's a Democrat for CONVENIENCE only.

I know there will be those here who will be disappointed and certainly some will scream "foul". But I believe that Hillary will be the ultimate nominee, and I think that's the best strategy to win, which as the article indicates, IS the primary goal.

I've already voted in my state primary and I voted for Hillary. That said, I do believe that Sanders has brought some important points and dynamics to this election season, and I hope (and I believe) that Clinton will take away from her contest with Sanders some of his ideas and goals. Hillary is politically savvy, and she learns as she plays the game.

For me, it's the foreign policy experience. Hillary is miles and miles ahead in that category, and I simply believe that most Americans will feel that is important.

Wow, talking against the Bern.... seems a little over the top (sarcasm...yes my lawyer said I had to say this), but I really don't believe people are thinking ahead, knowing, well maybe not knowing, how about hoping all he his stating he will do passes muster through a right wing controlled congress. I know, it takes time, but the house is so far fucked up on the GOP side, it will take decades to turn the house back to the democrats. Yes Clinton is talking shit too, but so is Trump, Rubio, et.al.

I think the sheer numbers of Sanders supporters on-line was shocking at first, not to mention what they were saying and how they were saying it. I'm seeing more and more articles like this, some milder in tone, some more aggressive. I am seeing these articles everywhere. At first, they were hard to find.

More and more, there is questioning the Sanders campaign, the validity of his platform. Out of these, some are still in the honeymoon stage ie "he's a great guy with good ideas but..." Others are not so kind.

BTW, your OP was alerted on, voted to leave 6-1.

in itself.

I wish we had that little emogi that shakes its head or rolls his eye.

Say anything about Bernie and you get alerted on. Very sad.

I can not see Sanders being POTUS

The GOP relentlessly attacked both Clintons during the William Clinton Presidency. What would be different with an HRC Presidency?

As my article points out, I see no reason why Hillary cannot do the same.

Bernie Sanders - well, not so much.

not bothering to look at all his Progressive Accomplishments.

The repubs vowed to block everything Obama did on Election night so it didn't matter.. they couldn't let him have any successes.

But, he did in spite of them and in spite of the profiteering left making money off of ODS.

Yep you're blocked because you intruded.

Keep this up and one of these days you will have blocked them all.

... I need to have some ointment, stat. Agreed on all points with the article.

Dear Jury, no person was attacked in this post, it was mere criticism of a slogan.

I think it would be guaranteed that we get routed in 2020.

So we can have ten more years of gerrymandered misery.

And then the ideologically pure can truly have the lost cause they seek.

.... will ever elect a President far enough to satisfy many of Sander's supporters.