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Godhumor

(6,437 posts)
Mon Feb 22, 2016, 04:33 PM Feb 2016

Let's be clear. Hillary didn't "win" the nomination after NV...that happened after IA (HRC Group)

Last edited Mon Feb 22, 2016, 05:42 PM - Edit history (2)

To any people who may stumble on this from the outside, this is being posted in the Hillary Group and not GDP. Thank you for your awareness and respect for the mission of this group.

So some of you who frequent GDP are probably aware that I write primers on polling, statistics, etc when there is incorrect or misunderstood information out there. I haven't done a real one of these in some time because a) we're actually voting now and b) they're not being met favorably or as non-partisan in GDP as the campaign heats up.

Considering this entire post is going to be how, numerically, Hillary is pretty much a foregone conclusion...well, I'm not going to even pretend there is a reason to post this in GDP other than for being an asshole. This seems like the much more appropriate place to post.

My standard disclaimer, in real life I am a statistical analyst...blah, blah, blah.

There are two kinds of analyses that are regularly talked about on boards like these; those attempting to show the numbers and those that attempt to explain what the numbers mean. This second type, if done without directly citing from a singular numerical analysis, is called a narrative analysis. A narrative analysis is one where readers are invited to look up the numbers for themselves while explaining the story that those numbers show. This will be a narrative analysis because it is dependent on a wide assortment of collected data and not just one or two polls.

One of the things many people have issues with is being made into a number. I get it; we don't want to see all that makes us us boiled down to a few metrics. It is dismissive of the human condition, and it is really infuriating when those metrics turn out to be accurate.

In 2008, statistical analysts knew Clinton was going to lose after SC. There was still a lot of votes to be cast, chances for small upsets etc, but people who look at numbers could tell by the demographics breakouts that Clinton was going to come up short. I was a Clinton supporter in 2008, and I still voted for her in the NY Primary, but I knew it was a lost cause. Obama's strengths as evident in the states he won (and lost) early on pointed to the end outcome with an amazing degree of confidence.

It took three states for analysts to reach that conclusion in 2008. This year it took one.

Everyone knows the logic behind this. Bernie hasn't broken through with minorities, with older voters, with registered Democrats, with women, etc, but Iowa was seen as the best indicator if Bernie's base of support would be enough to overcome those significant disadvantages. And, to be honest, Bernie significantly outperformed expectations in Iowa...but he underperformed versus what was needed to win it all. And not just by a little.

See, despite what some people here would say, caucuses heavily favor what is perceived as Bernie's base. Caucusers tend to have a much higher percentage of self identified activists than primaries. And Iowa is overwhelmingly white and allows independents to caucus. So the caucus make up included the three strongest legs of Bernie's base (activists, white, Democratic leaning independents). This was the litmus test to see if the Bernie coalition could overpower the amazingly broad base that Clinton has built.

Now, even a win by Bernie in Iowa wouldn't have been enough for analysts. From sites like Cook's and 538 as well as others, it was estimated that Bernie needed to win 60 to 70% of the delegates in Iowa to overcome the Hillary train via demographics and the more intangible "momentum" shift. We all know that this didn't happen.

People who do work like me (or better than me) saw this as the beginning of the end for Bernie. Now some couched these beliefs by saying he could make up ground elsewhere, anything could still happen, etc. For me, considering this is a message board and that I do have a dog in the fight, I'll say nope. He is done, barring Hillary having to drop out.

And weirdly enough the aftermath of the giddy Bernie supporters celebrating NH confirmed the numbers were going to work against him. As Super Tuesday polls began rolling in, it was clear that the demographics in those states rejected the momentum notion of the Bernie campaign. His victory in NH did not resonate in the more diverse states where Hillary had built up quite the base. Again, for analysts this was predictable based on the supporter make up of each candidate, but numbers are very cold and unfeeling about such things. The problem for people accepting this is that passion will almost always outweigh analysis.

We all know what happened in NV. Clinton won the moderates, the older more reliable voters, the women, the African Americans and, yes, the Latinos (Best estimate I have seen so far is that she won the Latino vote by a 16 point spread). Hillary's base is so strong that a challenger can't syphon off enough to break all the way through. The Bernie coalition was never big enough to do it, not even in Iowa. The numbers rarely lie, the demographic support is simply not there to lead an insurgency campaign to the candidacy itself.

Bernie is still going to win some states, we all know that, and Hillary is still going to have to work her tail off for awhile longer, and all of us, regardless of who we support, need to get out there and exercise our right to vote. But math says it is time to start bringing this home. I'm not saying Bernie should drop out of anything silly like that. But Hillary is about to rack up a lot of delegates, and she is more than likely going to start pivoting some of her rhetoric to the Republicans after Super Tuesday. And why shouldn't she? The odds are well and truly in her favor.

24 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Let's be clear. Hillary didn't "win" the nomination after NV...that happened after IA (HRC Group) (Original Post) Godhumor Feb 2016 OP
Great post! Thank you for this. livetohike Feb 2016 #1
Thanks for the info workinclasszero Feb 2016 #2
K & R SunSeeker Feb 2016 #3
From one statistician to another... wysi Feb 2016 #4
Would be very surprised if Trump can overcome the establishment pick of Rubio Godhumor Feb 2016 #5
Rubio worries me especially... wysi Feb 2016 #7
I want Trump, too. But Rubio is not nearly as scary as Jeb! would have been Godhumor Feb 2016 #12
Good points... wysi Feb 2016 #13
Yep. The Republicans "base" is inherently racist. Trump's message to them is, "I hate them, too!" BlueCaliDem Feb 2016 #24
Will be waiting for Trump to moon live, national television. kjones Feb 2016 #15
When I grow up, I want to be like you. Chichiri Feb 2016 #6
Heh, I only got you by 3 years (39 here) Godhumor Feb 2016 #17
Excellent post! Stats that I can understand. leftofcool Feb 2016 #8
rec riversedge Feb 2016 #9
K & R Surya Gayatri Feb 2016 #10
Very good analysis. Agnosticsherbet Feb 2016 #11
Thank you ismnotwasm Feb 2016 #14
k&r Starry Messenger Feb 2016 #16
Another statistician here Stuckinthebush Feb 2016 #18
I'm always hesitant Treant Feb 2016 #19
The race for delegates had reached critical mass Godhumor Feb 2016 #21
Hillary's working like she 20% points behind GH and I love it! I say this as someone Cha Feb 2016 #20
I always go back to one unfortunate truth Godhumor Feb 2016 #23
Excellent Post! eom Kang Colby Feb 2016 #22

wysi

(1,512 posts)
4. From one statistician to another...
Mon Feb 22, 2016, 04:43 PM
Feb 2016

... thank you. Now please handicap the race on the other side of the aisle.

Godhumor

(6,437 posts)
5. Would be very surprised if Trump can overcome the establishment pick of Rubio
Mon Feb 22, 2016, 04:46 PM
Feb 2016

But Rubio has repeatedly shot himself in the foot, and Trump could actually moon his supporters and go up 5 percentage points... so who knows.

wysi

(1,512 posts)
7. Rubio worries me especially...
Mon Feb 22, 2016, 04:48 PM
Feb 2016

... because we will see a repeat of the shenanigans in Florida from 16 years ago. I'm hoping Trump takes their nomination, but his support looks flat at about 30%.

Godhumor

(6,437 posts)
12. I want Trump, too. But Rubio is not nearly as scary as Jeb! would have been
Mon Feb 22, 2016, 05:13 PM
Feb 2016

He has some massive weaknesses in campaigning and especially in debating. He also doesn't excite the fringes of the Republican party which means he won't be pulling an Obama.

Frankly, Clinton should be able to run circles around Rubio; especially when he has to court Latinos without angering the more racist elements that make up their party currently.

wysi

(1,512 posts)
13. Good points...
Mon Feb 22, 2016, 05:15 PM
Feb 2016

I really think you could be right, it's hard to see how Rubio could really get the electorate excited. But they do love an empty suit over on that side of the aisle.

BlueCaliDem

(15,438 posts)
24. Yep. The Republicans "base" is inherently racist. Trump's message to them is, "I hate them, too!"
Tue Feb 23, 2016, 12:04 PM
Feb 2016

although he might not, really. But that's what they hear when he talks about walls along the southern border and have the Mexican gov't pay for it.

When Republicans chant, "America for Americans", they leave out one important adjective: "White". Either they do this by accident or they've calculated to not mention it so as not to come out of the racist's closet. In their heads they're shouting: "America for WHITE Americans".

The GOP "establishment" is terrified of Trump because they know they need, at minimum, 40% of the Latino vote (G.W. Bush got 44%). If Trump keeps winning those States with notorious racist histories, the Republican Party will never get the 40% they need. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if he underperforms Romney's paltry 23% (McCain got 28%, and he didn't win, either), we can happily say, "Welcome, Madame President Clinton!"

kjones

(1,053 posts)
15. Will be waiting for Trump to moon live, national television.
Mon Feb 22, 2016, 05:23 PM
Feb 2016

He can't just jump one shark, he has to jump them all....at once.

Trump - The Evel Knievel of jumping sharks

Chichiri

(4,667 posts)
6. When I grow up, I want to be like you.
Mon Feb 22, 2016, 04:47 PM
Feb 2016

...said the 36 year old to the random stranger. Great information, thanks.

Godhumor

(6,437 posts)
17. Heh, I only got you by 3 years (39 here)
Mon Feb 22, 2016, 07:28 PM
Feb 2016

Still trying to figure out what I want to be when I grow up.

Agnosticsherbet

(11,619 posts)
11. Very good analysis.
Mon Feb 22, 2016, 04:57 PM
Feb 2016

Now, more people would accept it. I hate dipping my toe in the cesspool that GD-P has become.

As for the Republicans. As long as they keep this huge field of contenders, Trump can carry the ball to victory. With all their Winner Take All States, it is a different animal over there.

ismnotwasm

(41,989 posts)
14. Thank you
Mon Feb 22, 2016, 05:18 PM
Feb 2016

I always appreciate your posts--even when they make me nervous about my candidate. This information is gratifying of course. I do appreciate good information, whether it supports my wants or not.

Stuckinthebush

(10,845 posts)
18. Another statistician here
Mon Feb 22, 2016, 07:33 PM
Feb 2016

Great post. You are so correct...we called this thing after Iowa. Hell, I called it prior to Iowa based on polling but we needed real voter data to REALLY call it.

It's over. The math ain't working for Sanders.

Treant

(1,968 posts)
19. I'm always hesitant
Mon Feb 22, 2016, 07:46 PM
Feb 2016

to prognosticate. At least without adding, "at the present moment" and "barring serious changes."

A sudden Black Friday event could shift more attention to Sanders' economic ideas, while a foreign policy crisis could highlight Clinton's expertise. Neither is likely, but either could happen.

But yeah, I've been hesitantly (I'm not a statistician but even I can see the handwriting on the wall) saying that, barring serious changes, this game is already over and just needs to play out over time.

Godhumor

(6,437 posts)
21. The race for delegates had reached critical mass
Mon Feb 22, 2016, 08:23 PM
Feb 2016

By which I mean it is too late for a change in economic circumstances to make that much of a difference. SC and Super Tuesday are just coming up too quickly to register a massive shift of opinion to Bernie over economic policy.

The only way left for Bernie to win, in my not very humble opinion, is if Hillary has to drop out. The numbers just aren't there for him.

Cha

(297,298 posts)
20. Hillary's working like she 20% points behind GH and I love it! I say this as someone
Mon Feb 22, 2016, 08:21 PM
Feb 2016

who strongly supported Obama in 2008 and now I love Hillary!

Thank you for your very interesting analysis.

Godhumor

(6,437 posts)
23. I always go back to one unfortunate truth
Tue Feb 23, 2016, 11:47 AM
Feb 2016

First BS supporters complained that their candidate want taken seriously. When he gained the attention of HRC they complain that she has the audacity to, you know, actually campaign for the nomination.

Already be careful with what you wish for.

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