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Chichiri

(4,667 posts)
Tue Mar 8, 2016, 10:34 PM Mar 2016

Okay, so Michigan is going to be closer than anyone thought, and we may lose.

We need to have words, not just with 538 but with all pollsters and numbers wonks about what this means, and how to adjust models in the coming weeks. ALL the polls had Hillary winning by double digits, some by more than 20 or 30. So there's a fundamental assumption or two that is being defied this cycle. Could be that young people are showing up, but a lot of Hillary races would be a lot narrower if that was the case. We'll have to see, but we need to figure out something.

Having said all that, Wayne County just flipped, is currently 53-46 for Hillary with about 19% reporting. Genesee County (Flint) is 64-34 Hillary with 6% reporting. Don't know if it'll be enough, but we'll see.

Recall that Bernie's target is higher than Hillary's, so even if Bernie narrowly wins it may not be enough.

28 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Okay, so Michigan is going to be closer than anyone thought, and we may lose. (Original Post) Chichiri Mar 2016 OP
It's not looking good... MelSC Mar 2016 #1
Wayne and Genesee are the big urban centers. There still are lots of votes to count there. George II Mar 2016 #2
that last debate hurt her. bernie DesertFlower Mar 2016 #3
It's not over yet... Skid Rogue Mar 2016 #4
Nah, have faith - the "good" precints have not reported yet. CajunBlazer Mar 2016 #5
As you say lots of votes still out of Detroit and Flint but so far Sanders book_worm Mar 2016 #6
Gotta tell ya ... salinsky Mar 2016 #7
Not really. eom BlueMTexpat Mar 2016 #9
Ha, hardly. LannyDeVaney Mar 2016 #12
Maybe a game changer, but not in the short term. Chichiri Mar 2016 #13
Uh, not "probably". He WILL be behind in delegates ... LannyDeVaney Mar 2016 #17
BS ... salinsky Mar 2016 #16
Excuse me? BS to you.. No game changer because Hillary will win the night no matter what and Cha Mar 2016 #23
No loss yet, although it is BlueMTexpat Mar 2016 #8
I just posted in another thread - 538 on Wayne Cty returns as of 8:33 central Lisa0825 Mar 2016 #10
Hey, Lisa Skid Rogue Mar 2016 #11
It was one of the live updates on 538 Lisa0825 Mar 2016 #14
Thanks so much... Skid Rogue Mar 2016 #18
Here, but I don't know how often it's updated Chichiri Mar 2016 #15
What was HRC's target in Michigan delegates? JohnnyLib2 Mar 2016 #19
HRC 63, Bernie 67. nt Chichiri Mar 2016 #20
Thanks once again. JohnnyLib2 Mar 2016 #21
There's next Tuesday with big states we will look to win FloridaBlues Mar 2016 #22
are those close primaries on the 15th?...n/t asuhornets Mar 2016 #25
If we lose we still win the delegates tonight but morale wise it is a big defeat. book_worm Mar 2016 #24
This is a big moral loss metroins Mar 2016 #26
yep this a bummer..n/t asuhornets Mar 2016 #27
Young voters and Indies were under-polled. It's an open primary where Indies can skew results. RBInMaine Mar 2016 #28

DesertFlower

(11,649 posts)
3. that last debate hurt her. bernie
Tue Mar 8, 2016, 10:39 PM
Mar 2016

kept bringing up trade agreements. michigan lost a lot of jobs because of them.

Skid Rogue

(711 posts)
4. It's not over yet...
Tue Mar 8, 2016, 10:41 PM
Mar 2016

Keep the faith until they call it. She'll still win more delegates tonight no matter what happens.

Hillary's going to win it in the long run. No one ever said this would be easy.

book_worm

(15,951 posts)
6. As you say lots of votes still out of Detroit and Flint but so far Sanders
Tue Mar 8, 2016, 10:42 PM
Mar 2016

is doing better than expected there. And while she will come out tonight with more delegates psychologically it will be a huge boost for Sanders to win this first Industrial State. It will make Ohio even more important if she loses Michigan tonight.

 

LannyDeVaney

(1,033 posts)
12. Ha, hardly.
Tue Mar 8, 2016, 10:49 PM
Mar 2016

He will end up with a bigger delegate deficit than when the evening started.

How is that a game changer?

Chichiri

(4,667 posts)
13. Maybe a game changer, but not in the short term.
Tue Mar 8, 2016, 10:51 PM
Mar 2016

Bernie will still probably end up behind in delegates for the night even if he does win Michigan.

 

LannyDeVaney

(1,033 posts)
17. Uh, not "probably". He WILL be behind in delegates ...
Tue Mar 8, 2016, 10:53 PM
Mar 2016

He could win Michigan by 10% and he would still get less delegates tonight than Clinton.

salinsky

(1,065 posts)
16. BS ...
Tue Mar 8, 2016, 10:53 PM
Mar 2016

... Michigan is a major Midwestern state.

It's a game changer in terms of perception.

It's huge.

Cha

(297,196 posts)
23. Excuse me? BS to you.. No game changer because Hillary will win the night no matter what and
Wed Mar 9, 2016, 12:04 AM
Mar 2016

she's going to win the nomination.

BlueMTexpat

(15,368 posts)
8. No loss yet, although it is
Tue Mar 8, 2016, 10:45 PM
Mar 2016

closer than is comfortable.

The same things that hurt Hillary badly in NH are working hard to defeat her in MI. They are a) open primary and b) independent voters. The fact that she is still so close show that her Dem base there is still very strong. That is encouraging.

Even if she "loses" - and we're still waiting to see how things will shake out - so long as she gets 63 MI delegates, which looks very possible, she will maintain her current lead over Bernie.

With her delegate count from MS, she will likely extend that lead.

This is what we need to focus on. http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/election-2016/delegate-targets/democrats/


Lisa0825

(14,487 posts)
10. I just posted in another thread - 538 on Wayne Cty returns as of 8:33 central
Tue Mar 8, 2016, 10:45 PM
Mar 2016

"I’m looking on the Wayne County clerk’s website to try to get an idea of where the vote is being reported from in Wayne County. It seems, at least as of earlier this hour, that Detroit was at 0 percent. The nearly uniformly white areas of Grosse Pointe Shores and Plymouth were at 100 percent. In other words, the percentages coming out of Wayne County right now don’t really reflect how black areas are voting."

book_worm

(15,951 posts)
24. If we lose we still win the delegates tonight but morale wise it is a big defeat.
Wed Mar 9, 2016, 12:05 AM
Mar 2016

To be honest I wish HRC had campaigned a little more there and not only in Detroit.

metroins

(2,550 posts)
26. This is a big moral loss
Wed Mar 9, 2016, 12:10 AM
Mar 2016

I'm not going to rehash what could've been done, but I feel like shit. My wife and her family are from MI.

Not trying to bring down the group.

The MS win was huge. I was really confident in MI.

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