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MrWendel

(1,881 posts)
Sat Mar 12, 2016, 05:35 PM Mar 2016

I'm Sick of the "Clintons are Homophobes Because of Don't Ask Don't Tell" Trope

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/03/12/1500148/-Im-Sick-of-the-Clintons-are-Homophobes-Because-of-Dont-Ask-Dont-Tell-Trope

By MargaretPOA


One of my old homes away from home with a "dirty" deck.



(Full disclosure: I am a Sanders supporter who voted for him in the Texas primary and a transwoman. This diary does not advocate for either candidate, it is just a response to some ignorance on display here)

In the past few weeks, I have seen no end of diaries and comments telling me that the Clintons, Hillary and Bill are homophobes because of the Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell policy that was adopted by the services when the Department of Defense Directive 1304.26 that was issued on December 21, 1993 took effect on February 28, 1994. This policy RELAXED the rules about serving while gay or lesbian.

The policy prohibited military personnel from discriminating against or harassing closeted homosexual or bisexual service members or applicants, while barring openly gay, lesbian, or bisexual persons from military service
(my bolding)


As abominable as that policy was, it was forced upon President Clinton, who actually campaigned on the promise to allow open service regardless of orientation, by the Republicans and by certain conservadems in Congress. Even Barney Frank ultimately, (though reluctantly) voted for the language that included the ban on open service by gays and lesbians, (we trans folks were excluded). But for some context, let me give you an example of what came before DADT:

Before DADT, the services pretty much left punishment for being openly LGB or T up to the unit commanders so the consequences of admitting to being LGBT ranged from none to sanctions like losing rank, pay, privileges, earned benefits and in some cases, even brig, (jail) time. It largely depended on whether your C.O. was a raging homophobe or not.

I was outed by my room mate who was attempting to distract from his own second DUI in two years and my world changed. I went from being a 4.0 sailor to a pariah instantly but not immediately. You see, my C.O. at the time knew me and knew my work and most pilots like to make it back to the ground and he knew that my work and I helped them do that. I was told that nothing was going to happen over that. Things seemed to have worked out.

(More in link)
14 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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I'm Sick of the "Clintons are Homophobes Because of Don't Ask Don't Tell" Trope (Original Post) MrWendel Mar 2016 OP
Great OP leftofcool Mar 2016 #1
Thanks for posting SharonClark Mar 2016 #2
The authors... MrWendel Mar 2016 #3
When I was in the Navy (stop singing)... yallerdawg Mar 2016 #4
Too late... MrWendel Mar 2016 #5
I have a friend who was in the Navy during Vietnam dlwickham Mar 2016 #12
wow I said this here too! Her Sister Mar 2016 #6
"Don't Ask, Don't Tell" was one of those incremental changes... yallerdawg Mar 2016 #8
Bill Maher smoked a joint on his show!! Her Sister Mar 2016 #9
Yes, it may be frustrating but history shows it works for the USA ... LannyDeVaney Mar 2016 #10
One of the worst things about being my age right now radical noodle Mar 2016 #7
Full time, alright! yallerdawg Mar 2016 #11
Hillary supporters are more open to truth and history radical noodle Mar 2016 #13
K&R UtahLib Mar 2016 #14

yallerdawg

(16,104 posts)
4. When I was in the Navy (stop singing)...
Sat Mar 12, 2016, 05:56 PM
Mar 2016

under Ford/Carter, it was really weird.

I was in San Diego - California - and the military was still in transition from a shooting war.

Things were weird.

Gays had to do everything they could to avoid being outed, or they would be kicked out. The real glitch in the system was determining when you turned gay, because when you enlisted, you signed papers you were not gay. So the military must have turned you gay, or you enlisted fraudulently!

On the other hand, a lot of hippy-dippies were enlisting, and discovered military service was not a good fit at all. How do you get out? Tell 'em your gay!

Here we had gays pretending to be straight, and straights pretending to be gay!

Those were the days!

MrWendel

(1,881 posts)
5. Too late...
Sat Mar 12, 2016, 05:58 PM
Mar 2016

I already have a tab up at Youtube for the "Village People", my resolve is weak. Thanks ALLOT!

dlwickham

(3,316 posts)
12. I have a friend who was in the Navy during Vietnam
Sat Mar 12, 2016, 07:23 PM
Mar 2016

and he was stationed in San Diego after he came back

I can't remember what department he said that he headed but a LOT of the sailors under him were gay

he felt right at home LOL

 

Her Sister

(6,444 posts)
6. wow I said this here too!
Sat Mar 12, 2016, 06:18 PM
Mar 2016

I was in the military during desert storm and saw many get ACTIVELY investigated, punished and chaptered-out for being gay! So yes I knew that DADT was an immediate improvement b/c the higher ups had to desist the gay-hunting they were doing til that point.

yallerdawg

(16,104 posts)
8. "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" was one of those incremental changes...
Sat Mar 12, 2016, 06:38 PM
Mar 2016

that seem to work in America.

I remember how Clinton was demonized for trying to destroy the very fabric of the military esprit de corps and cohesiveness of the military unit, just with DADT - all he could get!

People today don't really understand how American life has so profoundly changed. We still have resistance and issues, but the primary progressive liberal value of expanding individual rights to full and unrestricted equal application under the law and now almost total cultural acceptance - it is astounding!

One Democratic president later, and we have legalized same-sex marriage across the country!

A good argument for having another Democratic president!

 

Her Sister

(6,444 posts)
9. Bill Maher smoked a joint on his show!!
Sat Mar 12, 2016, 06:42 PM
Mar 2016

Medical MJ!!! On the air and passed it around his guests! A week or so ago!

This would've been unthinkable not that long ago.

 

LannyDeVaney

(1,033 posts)
10. Yes, it may be frustrating but history shows it works for the USA ...
Sat Mar 12, 2016, 06:46 PM
Mar 2016

slow, incremental changes towards progress. The wheels turn slowly or some such.

However, we got same-sex marriage and some legalized marijuana really quick (relatively speaking) because Obama rocks!

radical noodle

(8,013 posts)
7. One of the worst things about being my age right now
Sat Mar 12, 2016, 06:25 PM
Mar 2016

is that I remember all these things and the context in which they happened. When people talk about some of the things that happened years ago, they take them out of their time period in which they made sense and put them in today's world which really corrupts what actually happened.

I remember very well the flack Bill Clinton took when he tried to allow gays in the military. Even some Dems were furious.

It's difficult for me to not jump in on some of these debates saying "Wait a minute, that's not how it was" but I'm not that confrontational and I really don't have that kind of time. It would be a full time job here at DU.

Links to additional background on Bill Clinton, gays in the military and DADT:

https://library.cqpress.com/cqalmanac/document.php?id=cqal93-1106232

http://millercenter.org/president/clinton/speeches/speech-4561




yallerdawg

(16,104 posts)
11. Full time, alright!
Sat Mar 12, 2016, 06:46 PM
Mar 2016

Every hour of everyday you'd have to repeat the argument with every repetitive post!

I figure if they actually believe what they are posting, they were never going to vote for H anyway - so who needs 'em?

Doesn't hurt reminding us, though! (and our truth-seeking lurkers)

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