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Zorro

(15,740 posts)
Sat Mar 30, 2013, 07:35 PM Mar 2013

What Fidel Taught Hugo

Hugo Chávez died today in Venezuela at the age of 58, but his battle with a never-specified form of cancer was waged largely in a Cuban hospital—a telling detail, as Cuba loomed just as large in his political imagination as his native country.

It's a point that my gringo friends up north always struggle with. The Cuban Revolution's immense influence on the region has been constantly underestimated and misunderstood from day one. It's only a slight exaggeration to suggest that everything of note that's happened south of the Rio Grande since 1959 has been an attempt either to emulate, prevent, or transcend the Cuban experience. Chávez will be remembered as the most successful of Fidel Castro's emulators, the man who breathed new life into the old revolutionary dream.

Starting in the 1960s, guerrilla movements throughout the hemisphere tried to replicate the Sierra Maestra rebels' road to power, to no avail. In the '70s, Chile's Salvador Allende tried the electoral route, but he didn't have a clear majority. In the '80s, Nicaragua's Sandinistas had the majority and rode it to power, but took over a state too bankrupt to implement the social reforms they'd always championed.

Chávez had all three—power, votes, and money—plus charisma to boot. His was the last, best shot at reinventing Caribbean Communism for the 21st century.

http://www.newrepublic.com/article/112596/hugo-chavez-dead-cuba-defined-him-much-venezuela-did#

47 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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What Fidel Taught Hugo (Original Post) Zorro Mar 2013 OP
Your author had to quit his job at the NY Times because he was outed Judi Lynn Mar 2013 #1
I noticed you failed to dismiss his assessment of the Fidel-Hugo relationship Zorro Mar 2013 #2
What? Forgot to dismiss it? I dismiss EVERYTHING the sack of shit says. n/t Judi Lynn Mar 2013 #3
Another confirmation you read opposing viewpoints with your eyes closed Zorro Mar 2013 #4
I'm guessing your domestic policy information is gotten from polly7 Mar 2013 #5
Nope Zorro Mar 2013 #6
The Republican intelligencia! n/t Judi Lynn Mar 2013 #7
Thank you for pointing out the veracity of that 'journalist'! polly7 Mar 2013 #8
We know because we were reading everything we could on Venezuela here at D.U.! Judi Lynn Mar 2013 #9
Thank you again ....... I'm going to do some reading on all of them. polly7 Mar 2013 #10
Pardon me Zorro Mar 2013 #20
It's every day! That's just how us Chavistas roll! nt. polly7 Mar 2013 #21
Just remembered something about Francisco Toro: Judi Lynn Mar 2013 #11
He sounds like a real loser in all ways. polly7 Mar 2013 #12
Just remembered what a nasty kick they have taken at Maduro, making fun of him Judi Lynn Mar 2013 #13
Since the author told the truth, it's my conviction the fascist spinners will not attack the articl naaman fletcher Mar 2013 #14
Fracisco Toro, whom even the New York Times couldn't employ, finally? That one? Yeah. n/t Judi Lynn Mar 2013 #15
Paraphasing you: naaman fletcher Mar 2013 #16
I am saying I do not believe him, he doesn't tell the truth. Period. n/t Judi Lynn Mar 2013 #17
You don't get a free pass to drag out KNOWN PROPAGANDISTS. n/t Judi Lynn Mar 2013 #18
I'll remembe that naaman fletcher Mar 2013 #19
Thank you, Judi Lynn, for the facts and truth that you have posted in this thread! Peace Patriot Mar 2013 #22
Reading your remark about the big surprise the Cuban "exiles" got at Bay of Pigs, Judi Lynn Apr 2013 #24
Great job! ocpagu Apr 2013 #25
This deserves K&R. Thank you. idwiyo Apr 2013 #28
Fidel taught Hugo to play dead n/t Bacchus4.0 Apr 2013 #23
Didn't work, did it? ocpagu Apr 2013 #26
far as I know he's still dead n/t Bacchus4.0 Apr 2013 #27
Yes. As dead as Vargas, Allende... ocpagu Apr 2013 #29
Great comment. The right only wishes people would forget their need for hope. n/t Judi Lynn Apr 2013 #30
Thankfully, wishful thinking can not change history. ocpagu Apr 2013 #32
Huge crowds. Amazing. Doesn't take much for people to show their support Judi Lynn Apr 2013 #35
ok, I am looking forward to watching Maduro in action n/t Bacchus4.0 Apr 2013 #31
I fully expect to learn that he hit COLGATE4 Apr 2013 #33
My dear... ocpagu Apr 2013 #34
What on earth does your post have to do COLGATE4 Apr 2013 #39
Thought it was clear. ocpagu Apr 2013 #46
Chavez died at the right time naaman fletcher Apr 2013 #36
yep, the best thing to happen to Capriles is a loss, not so much for Venezuela though Bacchus4.0 Apr 2013 #37
If all else fails... ocpagu Apr 2013 #38
Yes naaman fletcher Apr 2013 #40
I value fletcher's opinion over Ricardo Setti. joshcryer Apr 2013 #42
"I value fletcher's opinion over Ricardo Setti" ocpagu Apr 2013 #45
Yeah, but it was just a prediction he made. joshcryer Apr 2013 #47
Ironically the right wing approves of Maduro's currency crap. joshcryer Apr 2013 #41
Well naaman fletcher Apr 2013 #43
It only makes sense if wages are raised appropriately. joshcryer Apr 2013 #44

Judi Lynn

(160,542 posts)
1. Your author had to quit his job at the NY Times because he was outed
Sat Mar 30, 2013, 08:55 PM
Mar 2013

as a reeking anti-Chavez propagandist even too smelly for the New York Times to try to pass off as a normal "journalist" any longer. U.S. readers have known about him for years.

The New York Times also have used the services of two OTHER anti-Chavist scrawlers, as well, Simon Romero, and Juan Forero, both truly smelly, on their own.

Amazing.

[center]~ ~ ~ ~ ~[/center]
NY Times Reporter Quits Over Conflict of Interest
Venezuela Misdeeds Adding Up on 43rd Street


By Al Giordano
Special to The Narco News Bulletin
January 14, 2003

The New York Times’ Venezuela problem continued to snowball yesterday as its Caracas correspondent Francisco Toro resigned.

Toro acknowledged, in a letter to Times editor Patrick J. Lyons, “conflicts of interest concerns” regarding his participation in protest marches and his “lifestyle bound up with opposition activism.”

Toro’s obsessive anti-Chavez position in Venezuela was publicly known after last April’s coup when he began sending emails to Narco News and other journalists who he placed on his own mailing list attacking Venezuelan President Hugo Chávez. That the Times hired him in the first place was a violation of the Times’ own claims to objective and disinterested reporting. But regarding Venezuela, it was not the first.

Toro’s resignation – the text of his letter sent to the Times management last night appears below – is the latest in a long series of missteps and misdeeds by the New York Times and its reporters regarding the New York newspaper’s one-sided and inaccurate Venezuela coverage....

http://www.narconews.com/Issue27/article584.html

[center]~ ~ ~ ~ ~[/center]
Financial Times Reporter "Can't Possibly Be Neutral"

6/6/03

In January, New York Times Venezuela correspondent Francisco Toro resigned his post after acknowledging that he "can't possibly be neutral" about the political situation in that country (Narco News Bulletin, 1/14/03). Now the same reporter is covering Venezuela for another prestigious paper, the Financial Times, contributing reports on May 29 and June 3.

The Financial Times is a London-based, business-oriented daily; most of its circulation is outside of Britain, with a quarter of its sales in the United States.

Toro is a fierce partisan in Venezuela's heated political environment, a participant in anti-government protests who posts name-calling attacks on President Hugo Chavez on his website. He describes himself as a "Venezuelan journalist opposed to Hugo Chavez" (Mother Jones, 3/1/03), and has written frankly about what he perceives as his own inability to impartially report the news from Venezuela.

While all journalists have political opinions, Toro described himself as unable to put aside his strong feelings about Chavez and cover the Venezuelan controversy without prejudice. After a Times editor indicated that his anti-government weblog was unacceptable, Toro responded: "I've decided I can't continue reporting for the New York Times.... I realize it would take much more than just pulling down my blog to address your conflict-of-interests concerns. Too much of my lifestyle is bound up with opposition activism at the moment, from participating in several NGOs, to organizing events and attending protest marches. But even if I gave all of that up, I don't think I could muster the level of emotional detachment from the story that the New York Times demands.... My country's democracy is in peril now, and I can’t possibly be neutral about that."

More:
http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=1624

New York Times v. Hugo Chavez
By Stephen Lendman
OpEdNews Op Eds 3/12/2013 at 01:41:00

NYT is America's leading propaganda vehicle,

The Paper of Record's history is longstanding and unprincipled. It supports corporate and imperial interests. It deplores populist ones. It features managed news misinformation. It betrays its readers doing so.

When America goes to war or plans one, it marches in lockstep. It's comfortable with neoliberal harshness. It abhors progressive politics. It supports wrong over right.

It suppresses "All the News That's Fit to Print." It ignores America's march to tyranny. It endorses policies demanding condemnation. It's typical Times.

It vilified Chavez throughout his tenure. It did so unfairly. It shamed itself doing so. It matters what it says. It's America's leading voice. It prioritizes propaganda. It has global clout. It lies for power.

More:
http://www.opednews.com/articles/New-York-Times-v-Hugo-Cha-by-Stephen-Lendman-130312-398.html

[center]~ ~ ~ ~ ~[/center]
Anti-Hugo Chavez bias
Louis Proyect Tue, 29 Jan 2013 07:29:05 -0800

~snip~

I was shocked to discover that a certain Francisco Toro blogs at
http://latitude.blogs.nytimes.com/. He can best be described as having
the same relationship to Venezuela that someone like the Miami
expatriate community has to Cuba: frothing-at-the-mouth hostility. I
suppose that the paper might excuse itself for offering him a blog to
spout his propaganda if it didn’t have such a terrible record in its
Venezuela reportage.

In doing a bit of digging on Mr. Toro, who received an MSc from the
London School of Economics, I discovered that he resigned his from his
reporting job in January 2003. Frankly, he should have never been hired
in the first place. This is the letter he sent to his editor Patrick J.
Lyons:

“After much careful consideration, I’ve decided I can’t continue
reporting for the New York Times. As I examine the problem, I realize it
would take much more than just pulling down my blog to address your
conflict of interests concerns. Too much of my lifestyle is bound up
with opposition activism at the moment, from participating in several
NGOs, to organizing events and attending protest marches. But even if I
gave all of that up, I don’t think I could muster the level of emotional
detachment from the story that the New York Times demands. For better or
for worse, my country’s democracy is in peril now, and I can’t possibly
be neutral about that.”

I don’t know. It seems to me that any newspaper trying to persuade the
world that it is impartial would have questioned Mr. Toro’s credentials
from the get-go. But then again, hiring him was not the first instance
of assigning someone to cover Venezuela with a clear animus toward Hugo
Chavez.

http://www.mail-archive.com/pen-l@lists.csuchico.edu/msg30662.html

[center]~ ~ ~ ~ ~[/center]
Weekend Edition July 3-5, 2004

Venezuela's Media Tycoons

The Anti-Chavez Echo Chamber

by JUSTIN DELACOUR

More than a year ago, I received an angry message from an opponent of Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez regarding an article that I wrote for Narco News criticizing the political partiality and methodological problems of Venezuela’s two most cited pollsters ("Can You Believe Venezuela’s Pollsters?", January 22, 2003). A number of anti-Chavez critiques of my article, including one by Francisco Toro, were pasted below the message.

For those who are not familiar with Toro, he is a well-known anti-Chavez activist based in Caracas whom the New York Times once hired as a reporter, in violation of the Times’ own claims to objective and disinterested reporting. Toro runs an anti-Chavez weblog called the Caracas Chronicles.

At the time that I received this angry message, I was preoccupied with other issues, so, if I recall correctly, I did not read the critique by Toro that followed the message. However, the recent agreement in Venezuela to move ahead with a recall referendum on Chavez’s government, as well as the Venezuelan President’s recent citations of my article on Radio Nacional de Venezuela, have re-sparked interest in the topic of the pollsters. Thus, I have decided to revisit one of Toro’s criticisms in order to show just how vacuous the Venezuelan opposition’s defense of their pollsters is. I will address Toro’s other "main" criticisms in future entries.

Toro writes:


The main reply to the writer… is that he’s arguing by innuendo. These guys [the pollsters] are personally anti-Chavez (indubitable) therefore they’re cheating on their polls (highly questionable). He never argues the link between the two, other than to suggest that anyone who is anti-Chavez is by definition such a nasty rat that he can’t possibly be honest in reporting poll results.

Actually, I never once put forth an argument that, since Venezuelan pollsters Alfredo Keller and Jose Antonio Gil Yepes were "personally anti-Chavez," they must have therefore been "cheating on their polls." First of all, Keller and Gil Yepes are not just "personally anti-Chavez"; they are publicly anti-Chavez, and virulently so, to the point that one was even quoted by the L.A. Times as calling for Chavez’s assassination, while the other sanctified the April 11 coup –on Peruvian radio– as a "de facto referendum." I made it abundantly clear in my original report that the pollsters had increasingly become identified publicly with the opposition and that they had made little effort to avoid this public perception. If it were only a matter of the pollsters’ "personal" beliefs –not one of public declarations– it would not be an issue. However, once the public comes to associate a pollster with a political side, the pollster’s public associations become problematic in and of themselves because they are likely to bias the responses of the population sample being polled.

More:
http://www.counterpunch.org/2004/07/03/the-anti-chavez-echo-chamber/

[center]~ ~ ~ ~ ~[/center]

[center]

Francisco Toro
The "journalist" [/center]

Zorro

(15,740 posts)
4. Another confirmation you read opposing viewpoints with your eyes closed
Sat Mar 30, 2013, 09:50 PM
Mar 2013

Attack the messenger, not the message.

polly7

(20,582 posts)
5. I'm guessing your domestic policy information is gotten from
Sat Mar 30, 2013, 10:10 PM
Mar 2013

the trustworthy sources, Beck, Palin, Limbaugh and Coulter. Amirite? Bet I am!!!!

Zorro

(15,740 posts)
6. Nope
Sat Mar 30, 2013, 11:02 PM
Mar 2013

Are you attempting to declare the OP is inaccurate?

If so, point out the inaccuracies, please.

polly7

(20,582 posts)
8. Thank you for pointing out the veracity of that 'journalist'!
Sat Mar 30, 2013, 11:27 PM
Mar 2013

I wouldn't have had a clue about him. Cripes, some people will rely on anything!.

I'm so glad for the brilliant people in this group.

Judi Lynn

(160,542 posts)
9. We know because we were reading everything we could on Venezuela here at D.U.!
Sat Mar 30, 2013, 11:32 PM
Mar 2013

Some of us just got here before you did, I'll bet.

If you had the chance to have seen some of his writing before he had to leave you would have known instantly, yourself, this guy is a little bent.

Simon Romero still works for the New York Times, and Juan Forero now works at the Washington Post. As soon as you see either of their names, you must read their crap very closely, in case there's something actually truthful in it you might want to know. Chances are, it's going to be ((((((( spun ))))))) almost beyond recognition!

We're glad you're at D.U. every time we see your name. Thank you!

polly7

(20,582 posts)
10. Thank you again ....... I'm going to do some reading on all of them.
Sat Mar 30, 2013, 11:42 PM
Mar 2013

And you're not only brilliant, you're also very kind.

Judi Lynn

(160,542 posts)
11. Just remembered something about Francisco Toro:
Sat Mar 30, 2013, 11:44 PM
Mar 2013

He has acknowledged that he is a member of an N.G.O. in Venezuela which actually receives money from a U.S. Government group, like USAID or NED. His group takes our tax dollars to conspire against the left. Cool, huh?

He comnpletely identifies himself with the Venezuelan oligarchy. He is unable to write legitimate "news" stories.

As you saw before Chavez died, the corporate sources had the picture he was dying, and started attacking Maduro weeks before his death. They didn't allow one moment go by before they started trying to transfer some of the hatred from Chavez to Maduro without mssing a beat. You can be sure after Toro realizes he can't beat Chavez up any longer and keep anyone's atentin he will fire it ALL at Maduro. You can also be 100% sure, if Capriles blew his great nose on someone's clothes, Toro would leap to his feet and cheer. Should Capriles pass gas during a speech, Toro would throw his hat in the air.

polly7

(20,582 posts)
12. He sounds like a real loser in all ways.
Sat Mar 30, 2013, 11:52 PM
Mar 2013

I've noticed how brutal they've been to Maduro already and a lot of it just make me sick. Chavez made his choice clear and I'm positive he made sure to choose very wisely - he loved his people and country. I have so much confidence in the people there, they were always a huge part of the constitutional process, I don't believe they'll let dirty rw tricksters turn back their progress. Thanks for this info, too!

Judi Lynn

(160,542 posts)
13. Just remembered what a nasty kick they have taken at Maduro, making fun of him
Sun Mar 31, 2013, 12:27 AM
Mar 2013

after they learned when he was a younger man he drove a bus. Can you imagine? A country which adores a piece of #### like this, Carlos Andrés Pérez, who forced by presidential order, his military to murder over 3,000 people protesting in the streets.

[center]





He was IMPEACHED, for Chrissakes. Why is he wearing Venezuela's sash?
He was removed from office, put in prison, then was kept under house arrest.
IMPEACHED means he CEASED to be the President because he was a criminal.
He stole money from the taxpayers. That doesn't even address his massacre
of thousands of poor Veneuelans. He stole their lives. He stole their children's parents.[/center]

Back to Maduro, he doesn't care they mock his poorer state when he was younger. He drove a bus to go register to begin his Presidential campaign! Way to go, Maduro! Very cool.

I am adding a photo I just found, looking for these Pérez photos, of Hugo Chavez when he was a younger man in the military:

[center][/center]

 

naaman fletcher

(7,362 posts)
14. Since the author told the truth, it's my conviction the fascist spinners will not attack the articl
Sun Mar 31, 2013, 03:41 AM
Mar 2013

and move ahead to simply attack the author.

He told the truth, and DU posters recognize it. Good article.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1108&pid=11338

 

naaman fletcher

(7,362 posts)
16. Paraphasing you:
Sun Mar 31, 2013, 04:04 AM
Mar 2013

Since the article tells the truth, you will just attack the author and not the article.

Peace Patriot

(24,010 posts)
22. Thank you, Judi Lynn, for the facts and truth that you have posted in this thread!
Sun Mar 31, 2013, 02:58 PM
Mar 2013

What an uphill battle you have--and we all have--to overcome the reams of lies, distortion, disinformation and propaganda of the Corporate Media, to understand what is really going on in Latin America, what has gone on there in the past and especially what is happening today with the rise of the huge leftist democracy revolution in so many countries.

The disinformation is both blatant and subtle and takes a lot of effort, thought and research to penetrate. New Republic disinformation can be on the subtler end of the spectrum, in this case, associating Chavez with "communism"--because of his friendship with Castro--when, in fact, Chavez presided over a mixed socialist/capitalist economy much like many European and Scandinavian countries--and a very successful economy at that. What is more, that economy and its social benefits, has been the clear will of the Venezuelan people, repeatedly endorsed in an election system that Jimmy Carter recently called "the best in the world."

But the title of this propagandistic article is not subtle. It is a dead giveaway. "What Fidel Taught Hugo"--as if the contest between the poor majority and the 1% of this world was reducible to two first names, contemptuously used. BOTH revolutions--the Cuban revolution during the Cold War, and the current vast leftist democracy revolution all over South America and into Central America, were/are "of, by and for" the people. That's why, when the CIA invaded Cuba back in the Bay of Pigs incident, NOBODY "rose up" to support the invaders. The current huge leftist democracy movement in Latin America has taken a different path to social justice than Cuba (which has a history of domination by the Soviet Union in its early decades), and has discovered that, if you un-rig the election system, Leftists win (a good lesson for us to study). It is NOT a "communist" revolution. It is a New Deal revolution! THAT is what our Corporate Media and Corporate Rulers don't want us to know. This revolution is about the People of Latin America, not about "Hugo" or "Fidel." The People of Latin America are the missing persons in all the Corporate propaganda about the Latin American Left.

Judi Lynn

(160,542 posts)
24. Reading your remark about the big surprise the Cuban "exiles" got at Bay of Pigs,
Mon Apr 1, 2013, 12:43 PM
Apr 2013

I had the image of their eager faces waiting for the Cuban nationals to come running across the sand begging for their old slave-like jobs back, and the big shock they must have felt when bullets came whistling by their heads, as they surrendered, arrested, and traded for baby food, medicine, etc. from the U.S. for the Cuban people.

That led to the memory of something Professor Alfredo Jones wrote, who was raised in the country in a community which worked for a wealthy Cuban family, with an open sewer running across the land, and malnourished children, whose mothers would take them, after the owners had eaten dinner to the back door to ask if there was leftover food they could have for their own dinner.

They also didn't have the right or ability to go to doctors when they fell ill, and had to go to the landowners and beg for their intervention by explaining their illness, and if the owner agreed, a note giving them permission to seek help from the doc.

That meant a lot of those people lived with internal parasites, and little prospects of anything getting better for the rest of their lives. These details of course have always been ignored by our own "public-serving" news media. which never even felt it necessary to cover the fact most Cubans depended upon seasonal work, and only had employment for part of every year, beyond which they had to go pound sand, the other jobs didn't exist for them to find.

Of course, it has already been calculated and pre-arranged by the U.S. Gov't how it intends to remove all the population-saving programs in place, their world-famous medical and educational systems, their researchers. etc., etc. and replace everything with privatized operations, putting them all right back in the conditions which brought on the revolution.

Latin America just doesn't want this. The people, not their exploiters, of course, who will always work against them. In the end, the oligarchs are most definitely going to lose, no matter what.

 

ocpagu

(1,954 posts)
29. Yes. As dead as Vargas, Allende...
Mon Apr 1, 2013, 03:00 PM
Apr 2013

It won't stop the Venezuelan people of supporting his ideas and sharing his vision, though.

 

ocpagu

(1,954 posts)
32. Thankfully, wishful thinking can not change history.
Mon Apr 1, 2013, 03:38 PM
Apr 2013

(and history has never been their cup of tea)

Funeral of Getúlio Vargas in 1954:





Any similarity to the "uneducated zombies" mourning Chávez is mere coincidence...

Judi Lynn

(160,542 posts)
35. Huge crowds. Amazing. Doesn't take much for people to show their support
Mon Apr 1, 2013, 03:57 PM
Apr 2013

for people they respect and care about.

Sad events in both countries for the great majority of people.

Your first photo reminds me of the image taken by Cuban Alberto Korda (who took the famous Che photo) when the people swarmed into the streets of Havana to celebrate the overturn of Batista's bloody regime.
This one is "El Quijote de la Farola."

[center][/center]
Thank you for the photos. They really add a lot to the information we're learning.

COLGATE4

(14,732 posts)
33. I fully expect to learn that he hit
Mon Apr 1, 2013, 03:52 PM
Apr 2013

18 holes in one the first time he played golf and was seen to walk on water as well by thousands of adoring admirers. I also read that when the Supreme Court appointed him acting President a huge rainbow was seen all over Venezuela. You just can't argue with facts like those.

 

ocpagu

(1,954 posts)
34. My dear...
Mon Apr 1, 2013, 03:57 PM
Apr 2013

You're the one who just said you don't believe CIA is involved in coups and destabilization in Latin America...

If there is someone relying in blind faith to deny what has been proved by documents and even admitted by US government itself... it's you.

COLGATE4

(14,732 posts)
39. What on earth does your post have to do
Mon Apr 1, 2013, 05:04 PM
Apr 2013

with my response regarding Maduro? And, BTW, I am many things but most certainly not "YOUR DEAR". Patronizing doesn't become you.

 

ocpagu

(1,954 posts)
46. Thought it was clear.
Tue Apr 2, 2013, 02:09 AM
Apr 2013

You're accusing Chávez supporters of sanctificating him... but you seem to have unrestricted faith that CIA does not meddle in Latin American affairs...

Got it?

 

naaman fletcher

(7,362 posts)
36. Chavez died at the right time
Mon Apr 1, 2013, 04:30 PM
Apr 2013

The bill is going to come due in the next two years:

Prediction: when the country goes to hell the chavezistas will blame Maduro for selling out the revolution. The first thing blamed will be the recent currency auction

Bacchus4.0

(6,837 posts)
37. yep, the best thing to happen to Capriles is a loss, not so much for Venezuela though
Mon Apr 1, 2013, 04:44 PM
Apr 2013

I agree that the next couple of years will be rough. Maybe real rough.

 

ocpagu

(1,954 posts)
38. If all else fails...
Mon Apr 1, 2013, 04:49 PM
Apr 2013

... say that the worst is yet to come.

"Another wicked legacy: the bill Dilma will have to pay".

"The huge bill that her predecessor and electoral/political mentor Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva left to be paid in her term will bring huge difficulties to manage with a minimum of rationality and planning the resources she will have in her first year of government and will drastically limit the execution of the Union's budget for 2011."

http://veja.abril.com.br/blog/ricardo-setti/politica-cia/uma-outra-heranca-maldita-a-conta-que-dilma-tera-que-pagar/

Two years later...

"Brazil’s Dilma seems unbeatable 18 months ahead of the presidential election"

http://en.mercopress.com/2013/03/27/brazil-s-dilma-seems-unbeatable-18-months-ahead-of-the-presidential-election

 

naaman fletcher

(7,362 posts)
40. Yes
Mon Apr 1, 2013, 07:09 PM
Apr 2013

I recognize that my statement is not really disprovable and therefore unscientific, but it is still a casual predixiton

joshcryer

(62,276 posts)
42. I value fletcher's opinion over Ricardo Setti.
Mon Apr 1, 2013, 09:15 PM
Apr 2013

fletcher sent me a PM telling me I was wrong about Capriles winning. I wish he'd sent it earlier and I wouldn't have made such a fool of myself. I was in the Capriles bubble. Like many of us were with Dean.

 

ocpagu

(1,954 posts)
45. "I value fletcher's opinion over Ricardo Setti"
Tue Apr 2, 2013, 01:55 AM
Apr 2013

Me too.

Ricardo Setti is right-wing moron who writes for a far right magazine. So, although I disagree with naaman a lot, I believe he's more progressive than Setti (any centrist or even a center-right would be more progressive)

My point (not sure if naaman got it) is that a lot of the arguments used to criticize Chávez and chavismo (sanctification, upcoming "bill", uneducated voters) were also used against Lula and the other Latin American progressist presidents. Like "canned arguments".

joshcryer

(62,276 posts)
47. Yeah, but it was just a prediction he made.
Tue Apr 2, 2013, 08:01 AM
Apr 2013

It'll be falsified soon enough. No need to box him in with right wingers for making it.

The best predictions are those which can be tested quickly.

joshcryer

(62,276 posts)
41. Ironically the right wing approves of Maduro's currency crap.
Mon Apr 1, 2013, 08:59 PM
Apr 2013

The devaluation and the auction. They think that's what Capriles should've done had he been elected.

 

naaman fletcher

(7,362 posts)
43. Well
Mon Apr 1, 2013, 09:16 PM
Apr 2013

The devaluation is the right thing. Of course they should just do it as opposed to this current thing where they are doing it but pretending they are not.

But anyway, it is being done in response to bad policy. However, the devaluation will get blamed

joshcryer

(62,276 posts)
44. It only makes sense if wages are raised appropriately.
Mon Apr 1, 2013, 11:23 PM
Apr 2013

As it stands now wages dropped nearly in half. Capriles has said that to avert the devaluation wages could be raised by 40%. We'll see if Maduro does it (which I don't think he will because the government needs that liquidity to run itself).

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