To do so would be a felony. Venezuela, as far as I know, has no reason to lie about this.

-Laelth

The President can deny with honesty that a person isn't a spy, however.

Venezuela isn't lying about it, they're making up preposterous nonsense, when you look at the ridiculous "evidence" that they have against him.

... but, for the sake of argument, if I worked for the CIA and wanted to plant a spy in Venezuela with the cover that he's just an amateur filmmaker (that nobody has ever heard of before), I'd be sure that he did not speak fluent Spanish.

Again, if he is a spy, and if the President knows he's a spy, the President must lie about it. That's the law in the United States.

I would be curious to know what facts support your conclusion that Venezuela's suspicions are ridiculous. I would also be curious to hear your theory explaining Venezuela's motives in detaining this filmmaker.

-Laelth

Venezuela's evidence are two videos, one where an ex-general is being interviewed, with no context whatsoever, and with no evidence that the filmmaker agrees with the ramblings. The second video are visibly drunk (or high) idiots talking shit talking about how they'll cause problems for money. They laughably, in their drunken stupor, say that they'll provide condoms and a battery to support the cause. And of course the fact that the idiot filmmaker had to get his daddy's air miles to fly out of there is "proof" the "aided the rebellion."

This shit is absolutely laughable.

The saddest part about this is that a filmmaker has had his videos confiscated and the world will never know what he filmed. The entertainment value alone would've been worth checking out. Who knows how many wacked up people he came across.

during the discussion about how much money is needed to cause a real ruckus in four states, one of the students or whatever they are empties his pockets, holds up what he finds and jokes "I got a phone card, some condoms and a battery, if that's any help".

These individuals appear to be involved in the attempted uprising (however delusional), and they appear to be running low on funds. In the second part of the clip, money is still on their minds. This time they more or less jokingly demand it from the man behind the camera.

I think this clip was shown to demonstrate what these types are all about. Cheap little thugs looking for a handout to pay their way through fighting the "revolution". The video also establishes that they appear to be trusting the American, and suggests that some money may indeed have changed hands between them.


The other clip is not at all without context, and it's not an interview. Antonio Rivera is directly addressing one of the young pro-Capriles protesters, explaining what they can and should do: "You can throw stones, you can throw bottles" (he doesn't go into such details as to whether these bottles should be filled with incendiary liquids first etc.), but "you must stay together and not let them disperse you" and "it is important that everything you do stays within the directions given by Capriles". The man behind the camera is apparently a person of trust who can hear and record this.

“Es importante mantener todo lo que hagan bajo la direccionalidad que tiene Capriles”

There's no evidence that he's actually advocating for that crap. None.

When he's interviewing the ex-general there's no indication he's saying what he wants, he's just asking what h thinks needs to be done, he doesn't even know what the general is saying at that moment.

Speaking of thugs, how about this chavista saying that they are necessary for the revolution:

I suppose they are, since they can be used as an Emmanuel Goldstein whenever they mouth off.

for correcting the false information you provided, once again.

Nobody has claimed that the man behind the camera is "advocating for that crap". If he is involved in financing violent clashes, he may indeed consider them just a necessary evil.

And again, the video with the ex-general Antonio Rivera is not an interview, he is being filmed while providing instructions to violent protesters, that they can "throw stones" and "throw bottles" and must not stray from the directions given by Capriles.

So you believe he'd do this while being filmed by some guy he doesn't know and trust? Very unlikely, given the government might be keen to get their hands on such material so they can show it on TV and arrest him for instigating a riot, LOL.

You gave your own little spin on it. Just as you are doing now.

The man is arrested for espionage and attempting to foment a civil war.

Funding opposition sources would be evidence of that as would video of him conspiring to do as such.

The video with Rivera is almost certainly an interview. It makes no sense for him to come up to a guy with a camera and start giving out instructions. Rivera has yet to be arrested, so the full video very likely shows an interview format (indeed, the other Spanish speaker is clearly talking to him in an interview format and writing down what is being said). The condom guys have been arrested because talking shit about causing violence is a big no no (you can get arrested for that in the US; indeed some Occupiers were infiltrated with psyop agents and convinced to actually go through with their smack talk, once the Molotovs are made you're sitting on a felony). So that video isn't really evidence to prove the filmmaker committed espionage and attempted to foment a civil war. Indeed, that's the very kind of footage a documentarian is supposed to get.

The video of the idiot thugs, likewise, doesn't prove a conspiracy to do anything. He's filming idiots mouthing off.

All they really have is the fact that he used his dad's air miles to get back. Basically he came into the country with money and left needing someone to fly him home. It's possible he paid off some people, it's possible he was robbed (probably likely, really, given the rampant crime in Venezuela). But that's not evidence of anything whatsoever.

I suspect Tim, unlike many other Venezuelan prisoners, will be released shortly. His family will likely bribe the requisite individuals and he'll be on a plane to the US in a few weeks.

The American was obviously following the protesters around, so it most definitely makes sense that he would catch someone on camera giving them instructions. Except if those he was filming didn't trust him, but they apparently did.

Who knows what evidence the government has against the American. The accusations are certainly not based on these two video clips. They were shown on TV because they provided insights into who the rioters are and who was directing them.

Which is all the more reason to believe he was simply making a documentary.

Hell, for all the paranoid chavistas know his final product would've put the opposition in a bad light (certainly the two clips shown could make the opposition look bad with a certain narrative). We don't have his film though, particularly uncut film without very neatly done editing. (Reminds me of the parliament bashings where we have yet to have access to the raw, uncut, film of the incident.)

The idiots arrested over the bridge bomb plot in the Occupy protests don't represent Occupy nor do those guys who were arrested for throwing Molotovs. Likewise, it's specious at best to accuse thugs who want to make money of representing the opposition and since Rivera's comments are in direct contradiction to Capriles' public statements against violence, it makes little sense to connect him to the opposition as well. A case could be made if it was systemic but I suspect if it were we'd have a shitload more videos being shown. It'd fill state TV and cadenas daily. Seems in the end that's all they found.

A video was posted here of protesters running on roofs and throwing ... water bottles at the national guard. They were called violent protesters wanting to overthrow the government. That's how absurd discussion about Venezuela has become. People throwing water bottles. I suppose they were filled with hydric acid, too...

edit: I will concede one thing, after watching and rewatching the Rivera video it seems as if the guy who's assisting him (Tims Spanish is poor) was a Capriles supporter. It's possible, even probable, that he was getting assistance from opposition youth groups to film which is why it's being pegged the April Connection and all that foldera. Young kids seeing an American with a camera and equipment and who has paid some guy to take him around, that'd be interesting to be involved with. We saw this in Libya (uh oh, am I about to get derailed?) where western film makers would get embedded in rebel groups and they saw them as their own. So with that in mind certainly I can concede that Tims actions could look insurrectionist.

If you took the camera away.

It appears many people will be familiar with some of his films.

"Tracy, a graduate of Georgetown University, reportedly arrived in Venezuela almost two years ago to make a film about the political situation. According to the Associated Press, he had been a story consultant on the 2009 documentary American Harmony, about competitive barbershop quartet singing, and produced the recent Discovery Channel program Under Siege, about terrorism and smuggling across the US-Canada border, as well the History Channel series Madhouse, on modified race-car drivers in North Carolina."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/apr/26/us-filmmaker-timothy-tracy-arrested-venezuela

The guy may or may not have been working for an American intelligence agency, but we have every right to be suspicious of American foreign policy in Latin America. Our reputation is not exactly sterling in this area.

-Laelth

Does the CIA really think some lone guy with a camera is able to foment civil disorder in another country?

If you believe that is true, then, yes, you can believe almost anything.

If you rationally laugh at such an idea, then, well, that's where I stand.

The CIA wouldn't use a guy like Tim, they'd use much more odious examples, like legislature or as some here have claimed, Capriles himself.

i'm skeptical about his arrest because of Maduro's comments, including calling him a "gringo". But I haven't found much else to give me any idea about it.

http://blog.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2013/04/30/meet_timothy_tracy_the_american_detained_by_the_venezuelan_government

Yuppie gone rouge doing stupid shit in shit hole countries.

We've heard the story dozens of times.

He has the same kind of rich background as Brad Will but he has the tenacity of Matthew van Dyke, imo.

http://www.matthewvandyke.com/

And an independently rich dude cruising around the world making films that nobody watches? And nobody knows where his money comes from? LOL. Sounds like a spy to me.

-Laelth

That popup thing can be X'd out (I think when I loaded the page it said "continue without signing up" in gray underneath).

Independently rich? Where do you get that? He comes from a very rich background.

He seems able to do a lot of film-making without any kind of regular income. Presumably he has been in Venezuela for over two years. How's he feeding himself and making a movie without a regular income? These facts lead me to believe he may have a separate revenue stream ... like a regular government check ... to keep himself afloat.

Just a suspicion.

-Laelth

Someone who has a rich background, but "goes against the mainstream" and tries to "set out on their own." There are so many examples of this it's kind of a joke. You take daddies credit card and set out on some absurd adventure that gets you killed or jailed (I can think of two instances of at least one person I knew indirectly, where this has happened). Some of them disavow money completely and go on to be essentially hobos, traveling the world, getting by with what they can. I don't know why but that's something you can see with people with affluent backgrounds. It's a sort of rebellion that they undertake.

I do not see Tim as someone who is working for an intelligence agency. I don't doubt the CIA knew he was there and was even monitoring him themselves, but I highly doubt they would use that kind of cover to get someone in the country. Usually they turn someone who already lives in a country, they don't send in outsiders, that's the worst way to go about it. You can see in Libya and in Pakistan where CIA workers were murdered or arrested for working in said countries (in Pakistan the CIA got away with cold blooded murder because he had diplomatic immunity, why didn't this guy have diplomatic immunity?).

His crime is being a gringo with a camera.

But as long as the Obama admin insists on this stupid position where they place themselves as the sole arbiter of who decides if an election in another country is fair when the rest of the world thinks everything went off fine, sh*t is going to happen. This person, whether innocent or not, is going to wind up as the football in this idiocy. Maduro, in this instance, has very good reason to be cautious, and that means putting him in jail until he's sure he's not causing any trouble. Obama has deliberately put himself in a position where he has almost no influence over what this individual's fate will be.
If you're American, don't go to Venezuela.

Without it he could be an imposter.

Tims were not any more than Michael Moore and he will be released.

You do realize that means nothing, right? Or were you really expecting Obama to say "hey, that's our spy. Give him back."?

Hey, you can't get them to shut up!

As Nixon said to Kissinger, recorded on the White House tapes:

Other quotes concern making sure our fingerprints aren't on this, etc., etc.

I'll never know why they call them covert ops, when we all know everything the government is doing at every moment, anyway. Jeez, it's all on another C-Span channel, and we all watch black operations, "wet work," etc., etc. in the evening after dinner. What a world! Oh, wait. No, we don't. We just pay for it with our tax dollars while they blow up men, women, children, babies, grandparents, whole towns, incinerate villages, torture and murder helpless citizens, etc.

You can be sure if a President says, "that man is not a spy", he's telling the truth, just like George Washington did, because of his natural purity.

You can clearly believe anything a right-winger says at a Democratic message board, as well, bless their hearts. Democrats are so lucky when they infest their conversations.

"seem" being the qualitive term..