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bemildred

(90,061 posts)
Tue Jul 23, 2013, 12:25 PM Jul 2013

L’Affaire Snowden Shows US Weakness

It took the Spanish government an inexplicably long time, but it finally apologized last week to Bolivia for an extremely rare diplomatic faux-pas, denying access to its air space for the presidential plane carrying Bolivian President Evo Morales from an official trip to Russia on July 3.

Spain was acting on information from an undisclosed source that whistleblower Edward Snowden, who revealed global eavesdropping by the United States, was hidden inside the plane. France, Portugal and Italy also denied their air space, but quickly moved to correct the situation. Madrid’s denial was more serious, not only because Spain was slow to recant its position but because Bolivia’s presidential plane had to refuel in Spain’s Canary Islands on its way to South America.

Further adding to the offense, the Spanish ambassador in Austria, where Morales was forced to land, tried to invite himself onboard “for coffee” to inspect the plane. Spain finally apologized and acknowledged that it acted inappropriately, but only after multiple international bodies had condemned the affair.

As we know now, Snowden wasn’t on board, and it’s hard to explain why anyone would think Bolivia’s head of state would risk stowing away Snowden, and even harder to figure out why European governments would deny use of their airspace, treating Morales as if he were a criminal.

http://consortiumnews.com/2013/07/22/laffaire-snowden-shows-us-weakness/

22 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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L’Affaire Snowden Shows US Weakness (Original Post) bemildred Jul 2013 OP
Maybe it was thought a criminal was aboard the plane. Thinkingabout Jul 2013 #1
Speculation is fun, isn't it? And so much more agreeable than reality. nt bemildred Jul 2013 #2
Yep, just like speculation some might be heroes. Thinkingabout Jul 2013 #4
Snowden's not a hero. There. Does that help? Can we move on now? bemildred Jul 2013 #6
And what would you do with the data? Thinkingabout Jul 2013 #8
Nothing. It's like dirt or air. It has no legitimate value except to its owners. bemildred Jul 2013 #12
What authority do you have in controlling the communication companies? You don't, it is their data Thinkingabout Jul 2013 #14
I hope they enjoy their newfound freedom from concerns about their advertising revenue. nt bemildred Jul 2013 #16
Maybe it was just another stupid screw up by Europe's puppet 'leaders'. No, not maybe, it WAS sabrina 1 Jul 2013 #22
The Euromess has made all of Europe totally dysfunctional Demeter Jul 2013 #3
Europe might make their own decisions, might argree with the US. Thinkingabout Jul 2013 #5
They need to question their premises, that takes a long time. nt bemildred Jul 2013 #7
Freedom of thought or controlled by others. Thinkingabout Jul 2013 #9
Perhaps if you rephrased the question I could see what you are asking? bemildred Jul 2013 #10
Life is difficult for you, eh? Thinkingabout Jul 2013 #11
No. I'm retired. Is speculation about my affairs all you have? nt bemildred Jul 2013 #13
Sure isn't, but sometimes folks has problems and makes life difficult for them. Thinkingabout Jul 2013 #15
So you just don't want to offer anything here? Are we done? nt bemildred Jul 2013 #17
Hope you can work out your problems, I am doing fine here. Thinkingabout Jul 2013 #18
I'll be fine, thanks. Have a nice day. nt bemildred Jul 2013 #19
It does! (unless the wolf is at the door and there's no time to waffle) Demeter Jul 2013 #20
Yep. A game of chicken, with us on the hood of the car. bemildred Jul 2013 #21

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
6. Snowden's not a hero. There. Does that help? Can we move on now?
Tue Jul 23, 2013, 12:51 PM
Jul 2013

Even he doesn't think he is a hero, I don't know why his enemies keep pushing that. I think it's funny. Look at him, he's a nerd, like me. He's an introvert. Rambo would not even notice him.

What he has shown however, is that nobody really cares about all that crap they are collecting, but they are greatly offended by having these silly creeps collecting all their data all the time, and using it for their own purposes, like they had some sort of right to it.

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
12. Nothing. It's like dirt or air. It has no legitimate value except to its owners.
Tue Jul 23, 2013, 01:09 PM
Jul 2013

They ought not be collecting it, they ought not be saving it, it is none of their business unless a judge agrees in public view they have a legitimate interest under the law in your affairs, and even then you better have your right to respond and or sue their asses if they transgress. They have no right to meddle in your business at all without probably cause. That is what a "right to privacy" mean, a right to be left alone, to be unwatched, unsupervised, and unevaluated, unmeasured, and so on, unless you first consent, or they first supply a good reason. The burden is on the government to prove its need to know, not on you to prove your right to be left alone.

Thinkingabout

(30,058 posts)
14. What authority do you have in controlling the communication companies? You don't, it is their data
Tue Jul 23, 2013, 01:13 PM
Jul 2013

and they can make their own decisions.

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
22. Maybe it was just another stupid screw up by Europe's puppet 'leaders'. No, not maybe, it WAS
Wed Jul 24, 2013, 01:38 AM
Jul 2013

another screw up for which they will pay as they underestimated the power the Latin American nations have accumulated over the past decade while they and the US, their actual boss, were raiding the resources of ME countries.

Same as the other screw up in Britain, when another puppet 'leader' made the incredible suggestion that they should raid the sovereign territory of the Ecuadoran Embassy to 'get' Julian Assange. Fortunately wiser heads prevailed, but not before they had made idiots of themselves before the entire world.

Someone needs to give some lessons on International Law and Treaties and Agreements on the Immunity of heads of state, and some separate deprogramming sessions to try to remove the notion from their collective minds, that every country in the world that is not run by white people, isn't a colony of their former Empires. Their Empires no longer exist, thankfully.

 

Demeter

(85,373 posts)
3. The Euromess has made all of Europe totally dysfunctional
Tue Jul 23, 2013, 12:41 PM
Jul 2013

not surprising that it bleeds over into this....they are probably trying to hedge bets that Uncle Stupid will provide a backstop/bailout/miracle/defensive troops....

The apology is perhaps mending fences in case BOLIVIA can bail out the "mother country".

It's a bad time to be a leader (when you really DON'T want to lead or take responsibility).

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
10. Perhaps if you rephrased the question I could see what you are asking?
Tue Jul 23, 2013, 01:02 PM
Jul 2013

Who is doing what to whom in your view? Tell me about it, if you are civil, I will be too.

 

Demeter

(85,373 posts)
20. It does! (unless the wolf is at the door and there's no time to waffle)
Tue Jul 23, 2013, 05:48 PM
Jul 2013

So it's a race between catastrophe, the (in)ability to cope and/or admit one's mistakes.


There's another comment to my reply from someone I have on Ignore. If it's worth un-Ignoring, please let me know!

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
21. Yep. A game of chicken, with us on the hood of the car.
Tue Jul 23, 2013, 05:56 PM
Jul 2013

I could not make sense of what the other guy was going on about.
Or he could not make sense of what I was going on about.
Either way he seemed disgruntled.
So no nothing you need to see.
It did not go on long and nothing meaningful was said.

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