This is pretty old news as the Lidar survey was completed, I believe, in 2022.

I've never seen the Mayans, who built large structures and temples as well having advanced agriculture, writing and mathematics as described as a "nomadic, hunter-gather society." However it's thought that perhaps the precursors to the Mayans, over 3000 years ago, may have been such a society. This is a nonsense article compiled of spurious facts by a layperson who knows nothing about the Mayans or Central American archeology. It's been known for years that the Mayans were an advanced culture that built cities connected by roads and practiced agriculture. Certainly not "hunter/gatherers."

This author makes it sound as if the Mayans have only recently been discovered. Their culture has been thoroughly researched for years. The advent of Lidar has made it possible to discover many additional Mayan sites that have been overgrown by jungle.

And what's with the inclusion of the photo of Irwin Corey in the article? He was a comedian that called himself "The World's Foremost Authority" and died in 2017 at the age of 102. He had nothing to do with the Mayans, archeology, or even science in anything other than a comedic routine.

Last edited Fri Mar 29, 2024, 03:59 PM - Edit history (1)

https://www.democraticunderground.com/110883375

I always post LIDAR articles when I find them, believing readers who haven't read about them, yet, would appreciate finding out later rather than never. It has always worked that way for me. Posting only the very latest information would make much faster reading, of course, but people coming late to events would have to wait even longer to learn about them.

It has always been my practice in the many years I've posted here and elsewhere.

Apparently you didn't view my inclusion of the World's Foremost Authority worthy of any respect! Who the #### doesn't respect such a distinguished scholar? If he was good enough for stand up comedy fans, he's certainly good enough for me.

If you'd only taken a moment to read more carefully you would have realized the terrible writing doesn't really claim Mayans were actually hunters/gatherers themselves:

This discovery is making historians rethink what they know of ancient Mayan civilization. The discovery of a network of roads and cities, hydraulic systems, and agricultural infrastructure suggests that communities living in Central America were now more advanced than given credit for, the Post reports.

Per the paper, these findings reflect "socio-economic organization and political power."

The lost world dates as far as 1,000 B.C. to the pre-classic epoch of the Mayans, which had previously been considered a nomadic, hunter-gather society.

The imbecile who wrote the article was apparently trying to summarize an earlier Washington Post article for a much broader audience.

They could not have been advanced. At least, that is what all the white researchers over the decades have said. Just as they said about anything that didn't not advance their own agenda of superiority.

(After all, we can't admit that anyone is better than we ever were, now can we? )

They did their best to destroy all traces of organized life already in process, terrorized, tortured, mutilated, massacred as many citizens as possible, enslaved the leftovers, and made certain to degrade, despise, deprive all following generations far into our futures, treating them worse than they'd treat trash, and training their putrid, idiotic, pointless spawn to carry their own hate torches with them forever, as well.

They make certain no tones of respect are ever engaged in any of the history books whenever the native people are mentioned. They have never acknowledged the high suicide rates among the first people all these centuries, up to the present. They have reduced them to being seen as odd people who perform dances at tourists spots, drink a lot, bumble around foolishly, with no place in "our" society. Investigations of murders of the first people are often never seriously undertaken, even now.

For sure, the "New World" got lucky when the pasty, pompous, self-entitled Europeans stomped or waddled off their boats and demanded the people who were here already get the #### outta sight or drop dead.

It's a delight to have seen your post. Thank you!

Fascinating!

in the Americas, saw so many buildings, they were astonished, and they exclaimed they had never seen anything like it in Europe. This would have appeared in the writings of some of the Spanish priests who accompanied their "heroes" as they pranced off their ships on horses, ready to slaughter everyone in their way.

Imagine their surprise, after floating all the way to the "New World!"

It didn't take long to tear as much down as humanly possible!

I was astounded by the remains of gorgeous pottery that was destroyed and plowed under in Arkansas, putting the lie to the story I’d learned of indigenous lack of organized industry.

in Arkansas. Had never heard about it, and I felt sick, helpless, and disgusted learning it happened from your post. Deeply ignorant, hateful "people" did that.

Found some information concerning disease as introduced to the Mayan citizens by European invaders:

Historical Background
Maya civilization—the Maya calendar, art, literature, religion, and spirituality—were nearly destroyed during the Spanish conquest and colonization from 1524 to 1821. This destruction occurred not only through the atrocities of war but also through the violent imposition of Christianity on the natives by early missionaries—this genocidal war of conquest, disease, and forced labor dismantled Indigenous Maya populations as they were forcibly separated from their ancient traditions. This is how the Maya hieroglyphic writing system stopped being used and disappeared from memory. Obviously, the native Maya suffered as they watched the destruction of knowledge documented in hieroglyphic books or codices burned by the missionaries. As stated by Bishop Diego de Landa, one of the friars responsible for burning a great number of hieroglyphic books in the Yucatán Peninsula region in 1565: “We found a great number of books in these letters, and since they contained nothing but superstitions and falsehoods of the devil, we burned them all, which they took most grievously, and which gave them great pain.”3

Those who wanted to maintain the traditional knowledge system were persecuted and tortured to death. By killing the elders who were the last repositories of ancient Maya hieroglyphic writing, the missionaries ensured the extinction of an ancient writing system. In response to these ethnocidal actions, Bishop Bartolomé de las Casas came out in defense of the Indigenous people in the court of Seville, Spain, in 1561, arguing that the war of conquest was inhumane and genocidal.4 It was during the early colonization of Maya territory that some of the most important hieroglyphic texts to survive destruction were taken to Europe, where they are now housed in museums and archives. Among these are the three major texts known as the Madrid Codex in Spain, the Paris Codex in France, and the Dresden Codex in Germany.

More:
https://www.getty.edu/publications/cultural-heritage-mass-atrocities/part-2/15-montejo/

~ ~ ~

Regarding disease, as spread by the invaders, here's some information from a Wikipedia report:

Epidemics incidentally introduced by the Spanish included smallpox, measles and influenza. These diseases, together with typhus and yellow fever, had a major impact on Maya populations.[77] The Old World diseases brought with the Spanish and against which the indigenous New World peoples had no resistance were a deciding factor in the conquest; they decimated populations before battles were even fought.[78] It is estimated that 90% of the indigenous population had been eliminated by disease within the first century of European contact.[79]

A single soldier arriving in Mexico in 1520 was carrying smallpox and initiated the devastating plagues that swept through the native populations of the Americas.[80] Modern estimates of native population decline vary from 75% to 90% mortality. Maya written histories suggest that smallpox was rapidly transmitted throughout the Maya area the same year that it arrived in central Mexico. Among the most deadly diseases were the aforementioned smallpox, influenza, measles and a number of pulmonary diseases, including tuberculosis.[81] Modern knowledge of the impact of these diseases on populations with no prior exposure suggests that 33–50% of the population of the Maya highlands perished.[82]

These diseases swept through Yucatán in the 1520s and 1530s, with periodic recurrences throughout the 16th century. By the late 16th century, malaria had arrived in the region, and yellow fever was first reported in the mid-17th century. Mortality was high, with approximately 50% of the population of some Yucatec Maya settlements being wiped out.[81] Those areas of the peninsula that experience damper conditions became rapidly depopulated after the conquest with the introduction of malaria and other waterborne parasites.[7] The native population of the northeastern portion of the peninsula was almost eliminated within fifty years of the conquest.[59] Soconusco also suffered catastrophic population collapse, with an estimated 90–95% drop.[83]

In the south, conditions conducive to the spread of malaria existed throughout Petén and Belize.[59] In Tabasco the population of approximately 30,000 was reduced by an estimated 90%, with measles, smallpox, catarrhs, dysentery and fevers being the main culprits.[59] At the time of the fall of Nojpetén in 1697, there are estimated to have been 60,000 Maya living around Lake Petén Itzá, including a large number of refugees from other areas. It is estimated that 88% of them died during the first ten years of colonial rule owing to a combination of disease and war.[84]eritage-mass-atrocities/part-2/15-montejo/

More:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_conquest_of_the_Maya#First_encounters:_1502_and_1511

I think “if only” and imagine a different world.

These structures were in place long before the European invaders sloshed ashore with their cannons, guns, swords, war dogs, and war horses, and all their armor to protect them from the people they planned to destroy in order to steal the land beneath their feet!

However, in my opinion, John Winthrop was a psycho. Most of the religious leadership in the Massachusetts Bay Colony were. It is always funny to myself when I see someone use that phrase and all I can think of is how much that person wants to be a dictator by quoting someone who was all but one.

Tulum was more than magical, and that white sand beach has to be seen to be believed. I just wish I could be there on the Summer Solstice to see the sun shining through that temple door.

may be more apropos.

and so very much has been hiding under dense jungles for centuries!

Several decades of accelerating technology will reveal so much more than we can presently see, but it's been said we've only scratched the surface, from North to South!