just to "let them know who's boss".

That's insane.

Reminds me of the McMartin case. Every teacher in that school lost their state certification. Most never got it back.

From what I read they would remain on full pay into the summer as an investigation was held. It's reasonable to assume that others on staff may have known about the behavior and looked the other way.

However, no other teachers have been accused of any misconduct or are under investigation.

A third was added in the last couple days. A teachers' aide accused of sending love letters to a 4th grader.

On a positive note, the new staff is made up of teachers who were laid off due to budget cuts in recent years.

How dare you make such an accusation.

The teacher across the hall and I were discussing this story the other day. I go for more than a week without going in her room. Days go by and I don't even see her. I was sick one day last week and she had no idea I wasn't at school. And she is my closest neighbor in the building.

Working in a school is not like an office where the workers sit side by side and exchange pleasantries off and on all day long. I have co-workers I literally do not see for weeks at a time. If we don't share a lunch hour or recess time, we don't see each other at all and have no idea what is happening in each other's classrooms.

So no it is absolutely NOT reasonable to assume others on staff may have known about the behavior and looked the other way. Anyone making that assumption doesn't spend any time in an elementary school.

I think you're making it personal p2BlK. It can't get to the point that any time someone suspects a teacher of some poor behavior, you see it as an indictment of all teachers in general (and you in particular). Asking "how dare you" invites a response from parents that you obviously care less about the kids in potential danger. Would that be a fair statement to just throw out there? Of course not.

How dare I? It's actually quite simple. Perverts are not all that common, I would presume less so in elementary schools than schools where the students are at least post-pubescent. To find two (possibly three) in the same school at the same time is statistically very unlikely. It looks clear to me that the school system is worried about the case growing beyond what we know now (they may have more information than what is public). If it turned into an even wider crime and they left the kids in that environment while they were doing the investigation... you know they would be pilloried (and would deserve it). One of these kids was reportedly transfered from the class of one pervert to that of another. Hopefully it's another odd coincidence... but it has happened before that like minds have found each other and set up little fiefdoms to protect each other. You cannot begin the investigation by assuming that everything else in the school is safe. If it was one case, you could do that... but we're potentially up to three now in the same elementary school.

The teacher across the hall and I were discussing this story the other day.

I'm sorry. If you don't know what's going on across the hall, on what basis do you claim to know how it works across the country? Are all schools the same? More relevantly, there may be other teachers that you don't see for weeks at a time, but schools shouldn't be designed in such a way that nobody has contact with the classrooms for weeks on end. My elementary schools, where they had walls/doors at all, always had glass inserts in the door. A principal can't be bothered to walk the halls once or twice a day just to stay in touch with what's going on?

The principal should have known something odd was going on. But going after the entire staff, because you expect them to know what is going on, is just ridiculous. It's a witch hunt, just like the McMartin case.

And yes, that's how it works in every school. Teachers teach, principals administer. Good principals are all over the building and rarely in their office. Good teachers focus on their class and their instruction, not on what's going on across the hall or next door. Seriously, if I ever went to my principal to complain about something the teacher in the room across the hall was doing or not doing, my principal would want to know why my attention wasn't on MY class instead of hers.

The LA School District needs to remove the teachers who have been accused and leave it at that while they investigate. It's going to upset the children to have the entire staff replaced. And it's not fair to penalize the kids. They've already suffered enough.

Last edited Mon Feb 13, 2012, 04:14 PM - Edit history (1)

They're separating the children from everyone that was at the school until they know that they didn't know what was going on.

There's really a difference.

Good principals are all over the building and rarely in their office

Right. Which means (much as in the PSU case) that others may very well have known and kept their mouth shut. They didn't just remove the teachers... they removed everyone while they perform an investigation.

It's going to upset the children to have the entire staff replaced.

I'd imagine that the kids and their parents are already pretty upset... and with much better reason. The system designed to protect those kids failed on multiple occasions and at multiple levels. It is not unreasonable to assume that they might not know everything yet. The parents/kids can't know who to trust (read the stories... many trusted the perverts)... now they have to deal with mid-year changes in staffing, but they know that there's nothing left of the system that endangered their children.

Were I one of those parents, I could easily see myself pulling my kids from the school until I knew it was safe. People I trusted to protect my kids dropped the ball and kids were injured far more than just losing a good teacher for a few weeks/months. You can't tell me to just trust that system unless/until they know more.

On edit - Reportedly, over one in four students didn't show up last Monday before the decision was announced. Do you think those parents were comfortable that there was nothing left to worry about?

I'm in a school every day. Most summers too. Why am I attacked for explaining how the culture of a school works? Do you think I am making any of this up?

We see other professionals on this website giving their inside perspective all the time. We managed to have a long debate over health care and listened to what nurses here had to say without bashing them for being nurses. Why the hell why can't we discuss education without bashing teachers and treating us like we don't know what we're talking about? I'm over this shit. So yes, when you say an entire building of teachers is to blame for not speaking out against the monsters in their buildings, I WILL call you on it.

Whatever your profession, there's some creep somewhere in the country with the same label on his business card. When his perversion comes to light it does not mean that everyone with that job title shares the blame. And when the police want to talk to others in the office, the knee-jerk response should not be that they're all being treated as if they're part of the problem.

Why the hell why can't we discuss education without bashing teachers and treating us like we don't know what we're talking about?

And why can't we have a civil conversation about a criminal without claims that people are "bashing" his profession?

To recap as an example. I said that someone else on the staff may have known what was going on. You later said that at least one person on the staff should have known... but somehow heard the first statement as an indictment of teachers in particular and wran with it.

I tell you that it makes sense to separate endangered kids from an environment where many were endangered, until you know that it's safe... and you hear "all the teachers are to blame"? Sorry... that doesn't make sense.

The kids are staying there. The teachers are being removed.

You're not seriously suggesting that in order to separate them... the kids should be moved and let the staff stay in the building?


Regardless... I think we can close this pretty simply. Three familes have now implicated a third teacher. They say that the predator used to visit their room and whisper to their teacher... who then escorted them to his classroom where they were abused.

Now... police have not arrested her. They've interviewed her and don't think that she is knowingly involved. The student's attorney obviously feels otherwise. We don't have any way of knowing. What we do know is that you can't seriously stand by your #5 any longer. Right? There are now four staff members that stand accused. How high must the number get before we agree that, at two, it was reasonable to assume that there could be more?

Let's also review your outrage that I didn't just accept your own experience as necessarily instructive for all elementary schools. How does this story fit in? Does it happen all the time that a teacher who is not responsible for your students drops by and borrows a few of them for a party in his classroom and you just take them over? Assuming this newly accused teacher is not involved. How much should she have known?

Broad Academy Graduate and Former director of education for the Gates Foundation. That is all you need to know. If you want to know more, follow the money.

They are taught to tear schools and districts down and then rebuild them and take credit for the changes.