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OKIsItJustMe

(19,938 posts)
Thu Jul 28, 2016, 07:25 PM Jul 2016

Carbon dioxide can be stored underground for ten times the length needed to avoid climatic impact

https://www.cam.ac.uk/research/news/carbon-dioxide-can-be-stored-underground-for-ten-times-the-length-needed-to-avoid-climatic-impact
[font face=Serif][font size=5]Carbon dioxide can be stored underground for ten times the length needed to avoid climatic impact[/font]

[font size=4]Study of natural-occurring 100,000 year-old CO2 reservoirs shows no significant corroding of ‘cap rock’, suggesting the greenhouse gas hasn’t leaked back out - one of the main concerns with greenhouse gas reduction proposal of carbon capture and storage.[/font]

28 Jul 2016

[font size=3]New research shows that natural accumulations of carbon dioxide (CO₂ ) that have been trapped underground for around 100,000 years have not significantly corroded the rocks above, suggesting that storing CO₂ in reservoirs deep underground is much safer and more predictable over long periods of time than previously thought.

These findings, published today in the journal Nature Communications, demonstrate the viability of a process called carbon capture and storage (CCS) as a solution to reducing carbon emissions from coal and gas-fired power stations, say researchers.



By studying a natural reservoir in Utah, USA, where CO₂ released from deeper formations has been trapped for around 100,000 years, a Cambridge-led research team has now shown that CO₂ can be securely stored underground for far longer than the 10,000 years needed to avoid climatic impacts.

Their new study shows that the critical component in geological carbon storage, the relatively impermeable layer of “cap rock” that retains the CO₂, can resist corrosion from CO₂-saturated water for at least 100,000 years.

…[/font][/font]
http://dx.doi.org/10.1038/ncomms12268
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Carbon dioxide can be stored underground for ten times the length needed to avoid climatic impact (Original Post) OKIsItJustMe Jul 2016 OP
saw a vid online that showed the himalayas as some sort of co2 storage bank and less snow up there msongs Jul 2016 #1
Good news. 6chars Jul 2016 #2
There’s a lot of work being done in that arena OKIsItJustMe Jul 2016 #3
capture and sequestration is good for what it is 6chars Jul 2016 #4
The thing is… OKIsItJustMe Jul 2016 #6
got any ideas for that? 6chars Jul 2016 #8
See below… OKIsItJustMe Jul 2016 #9
Very interesting 6chars Jul 2016 #10
Note this late addition to the above post OKIsItJustMe Jul 2016 #11
Being one of said "rather loud voices" ... Nihil Aug 2016 #12
Do all oil and gas wells fail catastrophically? Or is it a minority? OKIsItJustMe Aug 2016 #13
Now to figure out how to get a few billion tons a year INTO the rock NickB79 Jul 2016 #5
That depends on your criteria OKIsItJustMe Jul 2016 #7
My problem with carbon sequestration... Finishline42 Aug 2016 #14
“… adds cost to every unit of energy created by burning coal and natural gas …” OKIsItJustMe Aug 2016 #15
will not lower atmospheric levels of CO₂. Finishline42 Aug 2016 #16
No, carbon sequestration can deal with ambient CO₂ as well OKIsItJustMe Aug 2016 #17

msongs

(67,420 posts)
1. saw a vid online that showed the himalayas as some sort of co2 storage bank and less snow up there
Thu Jul 28, 2016, 07:30 PM
Jul 2016

would release more co2 because less snow means more rain to dissolve rock. or something like that. don't recall the vid tho

OKIsItJustMe

(19,938 posts)
3. There’s a lot of work being done in that arena
Fri Jul 29, 2016, 10:49 AM
Jul 2016

To quote one of my favorite headlines from the newspapers in SimCity 2000, [font face="serif"][font size=5]“Naysayers Say Nay.”[/font][/font]

A number of rather loud voices have suggested that if CO₂ were sequestered underground as a gas, it would not stay there.

6chars

(3,967 posts)
4. capture and sequestration is good for what it is
Fri Jul 29, 2016, 11:50 AM
Jul 2016

it means it is possible to burn coal and natural gas without contributing to greenhouse gases. but it is not realistic to deal with all the co2 that is released into the atmosphere to hope to then recapture it with giant screens and put it in the ground - there's too much air. For that co2, the best option is not to reduce the amount that is ever released into the atmosphere.

OKIsItJustMe

(19,938 posts)
6. The thing is…
Fri Jul 29, 2016, 09:52 PM
Jul 2016

There’s already too much CO₂ in the air.

If we would like to maintain a climate like the one we are accustomed to, we need to get atmospheric CO₂ levels below 350 ppm in rather short order.

6chars

(3,967 posts)
8. got any ideas for that?
Fri Jul 29, 2016, 10:53 PM
Jul 2016

just because co2 will stay in the ground if we put it there, doesn't mean we can take ambient co2 out of the air and put it there.

if we want to decrease atmospheric co2 by 1/8 (from 400ppm to 350ppm) by capturing the co2, that would require, for example, passing either all of the air in the world through a filter that captures 1/8 of the co2 or else passing 1/8th of the air in the world through a filter that captures all the co2. that would be a very big filter.

6chars

(3,967 posts)
10. Very interesting
Fri Jul 29, 2016, 11:15 PM
Jul 2016

a lot of the articles are of the typical excited about a new tech variety, so their descriptions of the tech are fine but their discussion of its potential use we have to take with a grain of salt. however, the aps article here and the pnas article in your comment below especially give some sense of the practicality / challenges of making a dent in co2 levels this way. more possible than i realized to reach adequate volumes as air just circulates a lot so a good capturing system will be able to do a lot of work and industrial scale would then make a dent, with the question being whether the costs can ever get low enough. imo, this would be a good reason to have carbon credits / carbon tax to incentivize development attempts - maybe we can get there after all. more worth a try than i realized. thanks for all the good links!



 

Nihil

(13,508 posts)
12. Being one of said "rather loud voices" ...
Mon Aug 1, 2016, 06:35 AM
Aug 2016

> A number of rather loud voices have suggested that if CO₂ were
> sequestered underground as a gas, it would not stay there.

... I would like to point out that the OP article does not counter my argument.

> Study of natural-occurring 100,000 year-old CO2 reservoirs shows no significant
> corroding of ‘cap rock’, suggesting the greenhouse gas hasn’t leaked back out - one
> of the main concerns with greenhouse gas reduction proposal of carbon capture and storage.

Those naturally occurring CO2 reservoirs do not have any man-made pipes
breaking through the layers of cap rock through which the CO2 would be inserted.

One would have hoped that the myriad instances of leakage from oil & gas wells
(of which the biggest example was Deepwater Horizon but there are thousands of
other, smaller cases) would have led a sensible person to understand that the
guaranteed weak point in any such "sequestration" project is the path by which
the CO2 is forcibly pumped through all of the overlying strata into what was
previously a secure, sealed anticline.

I hold by my "naysaying" thank you.

OKIsItJustMe

(19,938 posts)
13. Do all oil and gas wells fail catastrophically? Or is it a minority?
Mon Aug 1, 2016, 07:53 AM
Aug 2016

While I may not care for deep water drilling, I don’t believe that every deep water well becomes a “Deepwater Horizon.”

By the same token, we might expect that while some CO₂ sequestration wells may fail catastrophically, not all would, and that (as a result) CO₂ would be successfully sequestered.

https://www.epa.gov/uic/class-vi-wells-used-geologic-sequestration-co2

NickB79

(19,253 posts)
5. Now to figure out how to get a few billion tons a year INTO the rock
Fri Jul 29, 2016, 03:30 PM
Jul 2016

Which no one has figured out yet.....

Finishline42

(1,091 posts)
14. My problem with carbon sequestration...
Mon Aug 1, 2016, 02:02 PM
Aug 2016

My problem with carbon sequestration is that it is something that adds cost to every unit of energy created by burning coal and natural gas. Plus there is the cost required for R&D to brings this technology on line.

Using those funds instead to buy solar, wind and energy storage reduces for decades the need to burn fossil fuels...

OKIsItJustMe

(19,938 posts)
15. “… adds cost to every unit of energy created by burning coal and natural gas …”
Mon Aug 1, 2016, 03:00 PM
Aug 2016

That, of course, provides an incentive to switch to other sources.

There also is this: We need to do something with CO₂ which is already in the atmosphere. We need to get CO₂ levels below 350 ppm in fairly short order (like decades) and even if we switched to 100% “solar, wind and energy storage” tomorrow (which we won’t) that will not lower atmospheric levels of CO₂.

Finishline42

(1,091 posts)
16. will not lower atmospheric levels of CO₂.
Mon Aug 1, 2016, 09:00 PM
Aug 2016

Neither will carbon sequestration. That only deals with new input of CO2 into the atmosphere. Current levels will take decades to dissipate.

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