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WhiteTara

(29,722 posts)
Wed Mar 15, 2017, 09:15 PM Mar 2017

Nuclear Engineer: Fukushima is worst industrial cataclysm in history of world

http://enenews.com/nuclear-engineer-fukushima-is-worst-industrial-cataclysm-in-the-history-of-the-world-its-about-as-close-to-hell-as-i-could-imagine-the-nuclear-cores-have-disappeared-contami

Fukushima is “worst industrial cataclysm in history of world… As close to hell as I can imagine” — Melted fuel ‘disappeared’ — Contamination will go on for hundreds of thousands of years… “No one knows when it’ll end” — Gov’t perpetrating ongoing cover-up

Arnie Gundersen, former nuclear engineer, Mar 11, 2017 (emphasis added): The scientific impact of the triple meltdown at Fukushima Daiichi is an ongoing disaster that was never envisioned by the engineers who created and designed these atomic reactors and countries who built them… no country in the world with nuclear power reactors was prepared for the explosive radioactive contamination of Fukushima Daiichi. Over and over, people ask me about what happened inside the plants and what is still happening inside with robots fried by radiation, corium that can’t be found, and massive amounts of radioactivity migrating to sensitive estuaries, aquifers, contaminating all the ground water, and polluting the Pacific Ocean… No one has discovered where the nuclear cores have disappeared to. The $400,000,000 “ice wall” continues to leak… Moreover, the cover-up continues, with the health effects from radiation being camouflaged as stress related illnesses… I decided to share the photographs I took last year in Japan… these photos cannot adequately convey the scientific and human impact of the worst industrial cataclysm in the history of the world… [R]adioactive isotopes will be extreme hazards for 250,000 years, of course no one knows when it will end.

BBC Newsday interview with nuclear engineer Arnie Gundersen, Feb 28, 2017: “As they get in [the containment vessel at Fukushima Daiichi Unit 2], they’re finding that combination of hot steam — these are not just radioactive chemicals, but it’s a toxic mix of chemicals that are going to react with the steel. So there’s rust and hunks of nuclear fuel lying around, and steam, and it’s raining all the time because of the condensation. I think it’s about as close to hell as I could imagine.”

Arjun Makhijani, nuclear engineer, Feb 17, 2017: Yes, so the bottom of the reactor under the reactor there is a grating and then under the grating there’s the concrete floor, and what this robot discovered… the grating was deformed and broken. So, now it appears that some of the molten fuel may have gone through the grating… [H]igh radiation turns into heat, so the whole environment around the molten fuel is thermally very hot, and so whether it is going through the concrete, whether it is under the concrete, I don’t know that we have a good grip on that issue… Fukushima is possibly the longest running, continuous industrial disaster in history. It has not stopped because the risks are still there.
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Nuclear Engineer: Fukushima is worst industrial cataclysm in history of world (Original Post) WhiteTara Mar 2017 OP
oh no, you can't be correct sir heaven05 Mar 2017 #1
It scares me too. WhiteTara Mar 2017 #2
Many many years ago I read "On The Beach" dixiegrrrrl Mar 2017 #3
It's a surreal way to live WhiteTara Mar 2017 #4
yeah..very zen like..."be here now". dixiegrrrrl Mar 2017 #5
It is all we have. nt. WhiteTara Mar 2017 #7
I amost agree... defacto7 Mar 2017 #6
It's so frustrating to me that the world sits by and allows this... PoiBoy Mar 2017 #8
Arnie Gunderson. Enough said. nt NickB79 Mar 2017 #9
Right sue4e3 Mar 2017 #10
I thought he had credibility. WhiteTara Mar 2017 #11
Those of us who have been on DU long enough remember Arnie's claims very well NickB79 Mar 2017 #13
It might be better to ask why you assumed he had credibility. According to the bureau... NNadir Mar 2017 #17
Easier to say "Enenews. Enough said" FBaggins Mar 2017 #14
again, right sue4e3 Mar 2017 #16
Yeah, the worst. It outstrips the destruction of the planetary atmosphere, and the 70 million... NNadir Mar 2017 #12
Thousands of feral pigs beg to differ... hunter Mar 2017 #15
 

heaven05

(18,124 posts)
1. oh no, you can't be correct sir
Wed Mar 15, 2017, 09:23 PM
Mar 2017

many here and other places said it would be just fine....I said when it happened it would be here tomorrow, tomorrow is here and it will be here tomorrow and tomorrow and tomorrow.....this one scares me...still poisoning the ocean for sure, atmosphere? People are affected in large numbers, yet nothing in our media. Really very quiet on this worldwide. Makes a person wonder just what the fuck is the real deal with this poison pill affecting many....

dixiegrrrrl

(60,010 posts)
3. Many many years ago I read "On The Beach"
Wed Mar 15, 2017, 09:35 PM
Mar 2017

Neville Shute's imagining of the end of the world by nuclear radiation.

As best as I remember the book, at the end of it, our hero and his wife/girlfriend/whatever are sitting on a beach in Australia,
facing sure certainty that destruction is racing towards them, they have just a little bit of time left,
and the reader cannot help but ask..
"what do you do, what do you feel, what goes thru your mind at a time like this?"

and now I know....you just go in with life, as best you can, because between climate change and Fukushima, there is nothing the average person can really do at the moment that will change the outcome in the near future.

WhiteTara

(29,722 posts)
4. It's a surreal way to live
Wed Mar 15, 2017, 09:38 PM
Mar 2017

isn't it?

The only thing we can do is to be kind to those around us and to keep our equilibrium.

defacto7

(13,485 posts)
6. I amost agree...
Wed Mar 15, 2017, 10:04 PM
Mar 2017

With Fukashima there's no technology that can stop it which means there is nothing anyone can do about it. With Climate change we have the possibility to seek the technology and a chance to turn it around on a long term basis. But it's not something common humankind can do on their own, it takes the power of all nations.

PoiBoy

(1,542 posts)
8. It's so frustrating to me that the world sits by and allows this...
Thu Mar 16, 2017, 12:56 AM
Mar 2017

...outrage to go unchecked...

As long as Japan cannot contain this mess and it looks like they're not even trying very hard, it is NOT a Japan only problem...

And I understand that some here say that the effects are minimal and there is nothing to be concerned with, but with all due respect, I have a zero tolerance towards anything that even remotely affects my environment...

I repeat... this is NOT a Japan only problem.. I hope the best minds in the world are considering solutions to this mess...




NickB79

(19,258 posts)
13. Those of us who have been on DU long enough remember Arnie's claims very well
Thu Mar 16, 2017, 02:54 PM
Mar 2017

If even a tenth of what he predicted in the months after Fukushima melted down had come true, Japan would be burying their dead with bulldozers by now.

NNadir

(33,542 posts)
17. It might be better to ask why you assumed he had credibility. According to the bureau...
Sat Mar 18, 2017, 12:32 AM
Mar 2017

...of labor statistics, there 16,680 nuclear engineers employed in the United States alone.

I spend a lot of time reading papers written by professors of nuclear engineering working at major national labs, major academic institutions with nuclear engineering departments like, um, MIT, UC Berkeley, Georgia Tech...etc...etc...people at the Ph.D. level.

The people who founded the nuclear engineering field were Nobel Laureates.

I can't recall a single case other than the one individual you cite who claims that the failure of the reactors at Fukushima is the worst industrial accident of all time.

Not one.

Zero.

I'm sure if we polled the 16,680 working nuclear engineers in this country that there would only be a few who bought this obviously insane representation, given that the Alpha Piper oil platform explosion incinerated 167 people nearly instantaneously and the Horizon Deepwater explosion incinerated 8 people immediately and contaminated the entire Gulf of Mexico with some very well known and clearly understood carcinogenic petroleum products.

I suspect that among the 16,680 working nuclear engineers we wouldn't find 10 who would agree with Mr. Gunderson's statement, and the ten - if we could find them - we would find would not actually have worked at a reactor site for many decades, but instead would represent malcontent marginal employees with an axe to grind and a healthy dollop of paranoia.

Mr. Gunderson's Wikipedia page indicates that he hasn't held a nuclear engineering job since the 1990's other than promoting dangerous and fallacious paranoia that um, kills people since nuclear energy saves lives that would otherwise be among the 7 million people who die each year from air pollution.

Prevented Mortality and Greenhouse Gas Emissions from Historical and Projected Nuclear Power (Environ. Sci. Technol., 2013, 47 (9), pp 4889–4895)

In any case, a degree in nuclear engineering does not qualify one as an epidemiologist, and probably the most qualified people to adjudge what the "worst industrial accident" of all time is would be the kind of people who wrote this paper on risk factors and mortality, an international consortium of epidemiologists, medical professionals and statisticians.

A comparative risk assessment of burden of disease and injury attributable to 67 risk factors and risk factor clusters in 21 regions, 1990–2010: a systematic analysis for the Global Burden of Disease Study 2010 (Lancet 2012, 380, 2224–60: For air pollution mortality figures see Table 3, page 2238 and the text on page 2240.)

It's very clear from even a cursory reading of this important and widely cited paper, that one of the worst industrial disasters of all time is the normal operations of coal, gas, oil and biomass energy plants and residential use.

I suspect the reason that you "thought" Mr. Gunderson had credibility is because he is the only one among a tiny subset of the 16,680 nuclear engineers in this country who validated your own anti-nuclear paranoia.

If you were actually interested in knowing something about nuclear energy, you could find many tens of thousands of references written at a very high level on the subject. I happen to know this since I've done it myself, stirring myself out of my very, very, very, very stupid anti-nuclear bias after Chernobyl blew up.

For more than 30 years I've been reading technical and non-technical papers on nuclear energy at a very detailed level, tens of thousands of them probably.

The reason I was inspired to do this was because I thought, having bought into rote anti-nuclear stupidity that when the reactor exploded at Chernobyl that hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of people would die.

That didn't happen.

It led me to question the "experts" who I thought had credibility - the blockheads at the Union of Concerned "Scientists" for instance - who I believed before the reactor exploded. Once I set out on this course, I recognized that nuclear energy is the last best hope of the human race, and I, um, changed my mind and realized that to expiate for my sins I needed to promote nuclear energy.

Contemplating the Terrorist Who Strikes the Indian Point Nuclear Station.

What is depressing here is the number of people who jumped right on this nonsense statement here. They're clueless.

Anyone, and I do mean any one who thinks that Mr. Gunderson has credibility has clearly zero knowledge of nuclear technology and is simply promoting his grotesque ignorance, and again, it is grotesque inasmuch as accepting it kills people.

Anyone who spreads this kind of crap is doing a disservice to humanity.





NNadir

(33,542 posts)
12. Yeah, the worst. It outstrips the destruction of the planetary atmosphere, and the 70 million...
Thu Mar 16, 2017, 11:55 AM
Mar 2017

...deaths from air pollution in the last ten years by several orders of magnitude.

Why, it's completely depopulated all of Asia!!!!!

The existence of Japan is actually a fraud perpetuated by the grand nuclear conspiracy that is trying to kill everyone by the end of the week.

Now let's get serious.

The fact that tens of millions of people will die because people circulate garbage may not be the greatest industrial disaster of all time, but it is the greatest moral disaster of all time.

Nuclear energy saves lives, and the lives that are lost because nuclear energy is not used are all lost because of stupidity, gullibility, ignorance, fear and superstition.

hunter

(38,326 posts)
15. Thousands of feral pigs beg to differ...
Fri Mar 17, 2017, 10:06 PM
Mar 2017
Nuclear catastrophe is always an unmitigated disaster. The only beneficiaries, albeit in a perverse fashion, are animals, which tend to flourish in areas humans evacuate. This has certainly been the case for wild boars around Fukushima, which have multiplied so rapidly, they’ve become a problem for neighboring towns.

--more--

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2016/04/11/thousands-of-radioactive-boars-are-overrunning-farmland-in-fukushima/


Fish too.

It's a sad reality, but ordinary humans are worse for the natural environment than nuclear accidents.
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