Environment & Energy

nitpicker

(7,153 posts) Mon Jan 29, 2018, 05:08 AM Jan 2018

German scientists involved in toxic diesel fume tests on humans

http://www.dw.com/en/german-scientists-involved-in-toxic-diesel-fume-tests-on-humans/a-42346854

German scientists involved in toxic diesel fume tests on humans

Reports by German newspapers Stuttgarter Zeitung and Süddeutsche Zeitung said humans had been exposed to a gas found in diesel fumes during an experiment "sometime between 2012 and 2015" requested by a group funded by German carmakers. Auto manufacturers said they had an interest in proving that the use of modern technology made diesel emissions more or less harmless.

The tests were requested by the European Research Group on Environment and Health in the Transport Sector (EUGT) — a now defunct organization founded by German carmakers Volkswagen, Daimler and BMW. The experiments focused on "short-term nitrogen dioxide inhalation by healthy people," according to the newspapers. An Aachen-based university hospital then examined 25 people after they inhaled varying amounts of the gas over several hours. The experiments were reported on after recent revelations of an experiment where — in equally inacceptable tests — monkeys were made to inhale the toxic gas.

Reacting to the accusations, Volkswagen said in a statement "we are convinced that the scientific methods chosen at the time were wrong."
(snip)

3 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

German scientists involved in toxic diesel fume tests on humans (Original Post) nitpicker Jan 2018 OP

Curious what the 'doses' were ... WATER is 'toxic' at too high a dose, so ... mr_lebowski Jan 2018 #1

Nevertheless, I have personally always found... dchill Jan 2018 #2

NO2 is not the only component of "diesel fumes." Nitram Jan 2018 #3

mr_lebowski

(33,643 posts)

1. Curious what the 'doses' were ... WATER is 'toxic' at too high a dose, so ...

Reply to nitpicker (Original post)

Mon Jan 29, 2018, 05:32 AM

Jan 2018

Outside of heavy metals and radioactive stuff, I tend to be a bit skeptical about claims of 'toxic' substances ... until I know what the dosages involved are.

It also seems a little misleading to refer to something as chemically simple as NO2 as 'toxic diesel fumes' ... it's a very simple gas, produced by 1000's of common reactions, not just burning diesel.

It's literally formed by combining the most common element of our atmosphere with 2nd most common element in our atmosphere. When mixed with water, it's fundamentally 'acidic' in nature but apart from that trait, it's not TOXIC unless concentrated. Every single one of us is breathing NO2 all the time. Just not a lot of it.

dchill

(38,505 posts)

2. Nevertheless, I have personally always found...

Reply to mr_lebowski (Reply #1)

Mon Jan 29, 2018, 05:42 AM

Jan 2018

nitrous oxide to be a little bit more toxic than water. Subjectively, of course.

Nitram

(22,822 posts)

3. NO2 is not the only component of "diesel fumes."

Reply to nitpicker (Original post)

Mon Jan 29, 2018, 10:43 AM

Jan 2018

A Google search provided a "partial list" that included Carbon dioxide, Carbon monoxide, Nitrogen dioxide, Nitric oxide, Sulfur dioxide and "particulates." So, either the headline is wrong (they weren't actually diesel fumes), or the article is wrong (the scientists didn't just expose the subjects to N02).

Reply to this discussion