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procon

(15,805 posts)
Mon Aug 6, 2018, 01:34 PM Aug 2018

"Nearly everything we understand about global warming was understood in 1979."

The New York Times’ Big Story on Climate Change will make you angry. They all knew what was happening and they all chose to do nothing. It is worth reading to understand how shortsighted, greedy people squandered away our planet's future and likely will kill millions of human beings in the process of getting richer.



Losing Earth: The Decade We Almost Stopped Climate Change

AUG. 1, 2018

Because in the decade that ran from 1979 to 1989, we had an excellent opportunity to solve the climate crisis. The world’s major powers came within several signatures of endorsing a binding, global framework to reduce carbon emissions — far closer than we’ve come since. During those years, the conditions for success could not have been more favorable. The obstacles we blame for our current inaction had yet to emerge. Almost nothing stood in our way — nothing except ourselves.

Nearly everything we understand about global warming was understood in 1979. By that year, data collected since 1957 confirmed what had been known since before the turn of the 20th century: Human beings have altered Earth’s atmosphere through the indiscriminate burning of fossil fuels. The main scientific questions were settled beyond debate, and as the 1980s began, attention turned from diagnosis of the problem to refinement of the predicted consequences.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/08/01/magazine/climate-change-losing-earth.html#main




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kimbutgar

(21,172 posts)
1. Remember the word Ecology?
Mon Aug 6, 2018, 01:39 PM
Aug 2018

It’s as if it disappeared when Reagan became President. Most people understood we needed to them are care of our planet. I remember the tv commercial where the lady said, “ it’s not nice to fool with Mother Nature”. People understood about ecology and then they stopped saying the word. I guess the oil and gas industries didn’t like that word.

kimbutgar

(21,172 posts)
7. Yes I couldn't remember the product
Mon Aug 6, 2018, 02:07 PM
Aug 2018

But whenever I hear of natural disasters I think about that phrase.

Crutchez_CuiBono

(7,725 posts)
3. They roasted Jimmy Carter for thinking this was the coming trend. He was Al Gore before Al Gore.
Mon Aug 6, 2018, 01:44 PM
Aug 2018

Those darn hostages though..big pre-occupation of our time seemed like. It's always our policy to never negotiate w terrorists, until a repub needs to do (Reagan, trum)it bc it's the fast answer and American Morays(?) are just platitudes to them. Budget hawks when not in power as well, so the dems pay off the debts they ring up w free wheeling spending, for donors and private gain.

NNadir

(33,534 posts)
9. Jimmy Carter worked to make oil from coal.
Tue Aug 7, 2018, 08:42 PM
Aug 2018

I voted for Jimmy Carter twice, but frankly, like most Americans at the time including him, I didn't know very much about energy. I would have voted for him anyway, even if I knew what I know now, but it would have been a negative choice; he wasn't Ford and he wasn't (gasp) Reagan, both of whom were worse than him.

His energy policy was a disaster. From his 1976 campaign interview.

Q: There seems to be a difference between you and the President on the use of nuclear power plants, which you would use as a last priority.
CARTER: We're gonna run out of oil. We now import about 44% of our oil. We need to shift from oil to coal. We need to concentrate our on coal burning and extraction, with safer mines, but also clean burning. We need to shift very strongly toward solar energy and have strict conservation measures. And then as a last resort only, use atomic power.


On the issues, Jimmy Carter on oil

This is possibly the most destructive and climate gas intensive program there is.

"Shift from oil to coal..."

From the Jimmy Carter Library: ENERGY SECUR·ITY CORPORATION ( ESC )

Some of the President's previous proposals have been enacted into law by the
Congress and others are still being considered. On July 15, additional
initiatives were announced in which the President proposed that:
o An Energy Security Corporation be established to help private
industry finance the development of 1.75 million barrels per day of
oil substitutes from coal, oil shale, biomass, and �nconventional
gas by 1990. Appendix 1 at Tab I summarizes the total expected oil
reductions from the President's July 15 proposals.
>
·. � o New initiatives be undertaken for the development of heavy oil resources,
unconventional gas, and oil shale whic� will save an additional
1.25 million barrels of oil per day. Tax credits will be offered to
producers of oil shale and unconventional gas and heavy oil will be
permitted to be sold at world oil prices and will not be subject to
the Windfall Profits Tax.


Now, Jimmy Carter is a fine man in many ways, but his energy policy is basically the one we have, minus the coal to oil. The reason we have that is that we didn't run out of oil although we have run out of places to put the oil (gas and coal) waste, carbon dioxide.

It was a program for the complete destruction of the planetary atmosphere, including the misplaced faith in solar energy, which didn't work, isn't working and won't work. Fourty years later, despite all the cheering, and the trillion dollar sums sunk into it, the entire solar industry and wind industry combined don't produce 10 of the 576 exajoules humanity was consuming as of 2016.

If we want to be serious about climate change - and there's very little hope that we will be - we need to reverse Carterian policy.

Crutchez_CuiBono

(7,725 posts)
10. He wasnt Ford...and he wasnt Reagan....
Tue Aug 7, 2018, 09:06 PM
Aug 2018

Jimmy was crucified every time he even uttered curtailing oil. The Gas Shortage happened under him as i recall and it was a wake up for everyone. Instead of swerving off the gasoline path then...he was shut down every time he even suggested reducing car emissions and increasing MPG. The repubs already knew they had to completely bombard the climate folks (we were nt really 'climate folks' back then, but, I sure remember being tied to middle east oil and that was bad in itself and a reason to cut back on driving etc.) They laughed and rode Pres Carter for everything resembling a turn to conservation. That's how I remember it. He was brow beaten by the gop as weak. The mans worked building houses for the poor his entire life. Sounds like a D who concerns himself w other peoples happiness. The enviornment was certainly an issue.

NNadir

(33,534 posts)
11. The first "gas crisis" happened under Nixon. It was Nixon...
Wed Aug 8, 2018, 06:38 AM
Aug 2018

...who made a speech - I remember it well - asking Americans to drive at 55 mph, and then actually got a law passed requiring it.

Oil shocks continued right through the 1970's under all three Presidents at the time.

Despite calls for "human rights" - Carter made a personal friendship with the Shah of Iran - because the Shah controlled, criminally as it but nevertheless practically - huge oil reserves and wasn't participating in Arab boycotts.

I am not here to praise the Iranian Revolution, which was criminal in other ways, but Savak was a secret police force that was completely horrible. Carter had to have known. The hypocrisy of this claim to be concerned about "human rights" while smooth talking the Shah is not morally worth of esteem.

Carter learned, as part of his folk religion, about "moral example." I hold a jaundiced view of people who wish to announce themselves as moral exemplars who everyone else should follow, particularly when they hold deep personal relations with someone like the Shah.

His moral exemplar decision on reprocessing nuclear fuel was a joke, and it was a terrible, terrible, terrible decision in its own right. He brought anti-nuke nonsense to the mainstream in this party, thus rendering it totally incapable of actually addressing climate change and possibly eliminating the need for any energy mining for centuries to come.

As for climate change and the fetish about "conservation..."

The problem is that Americans in the 1970's thought that they were the only people in the world who mattered. They were disinterested in the unimaginable poverty of India and China, which contained the bulk of the world's population. The exemplar that the Indians and Chinese chose was the materialism of the US. They decided to improve their standard of living the same way the Americans did, by burning coal.

We are now, on this planet, consuming more that 576 exajoules of energy each year. In 1976, we were consuming less than 400. We have more than doubled coal consumption internationally since 1973. Sorry, but Indians and Chinese did not agree to remain unimaginably impoverished so Americans could all run around in Tesla cars powered by the sun.

Sun powered cars are still a joke, a very bad joke since we are now experiencing climate horrors all over the world.

Carter's work for human rights after leaving office has been wonderful. But that doesn't change who he was when he was in office.

He's a Democrat; I'm a Democrat, but frankly, he was by far, the worst Democratic President of my lifetime which includes JFK, another Democrat who is, in my opinion, not consistent with my views of what an effective Democratic President should be, and is vastly over rated by both historians and members of our party.

My ideal of what an American President should be - and what a Democrat should be - is Barack Obama. I wish we had nominated someone else in 1976, more Obama and far less Carter.

StevieM

(10,500 posts)
12. Had Carter not gotten the nomination in 1976 my guess is that it would have gone to Morris Udall.
Wed Aug 8, 2018, 01:17 PM
Aug 2018

I don't know if he would have won the election, since he would not have been able to incorporate the south, which Carter nearly swept, into his coalition.

It is true that Carter had a big lead at one point, but I think that margin was always destined to come down. People forget that Bill Clinton also had a big lead in 1992 and it did eventually come down from 20 points to 5.5. For the record, Perot had nothing to do with him winning. For most of the race Perot was taking more votes from Clinton than Bush, which is why Bush wanted him in the debates. It wasn't until election day that you could finally say he took equally from both candidates.

In 2016 HRC's lead would not have come down in the final couple weeks had it not been for Comey and Putin. And the polls that had her up were very accurate. People were not ashamed to admit they were voting for Donald Trump. Of course, a big part of why she was ahead, and why her lead was so solid, is because people were happy with the progress our country had made under Obama. The media portrayed 2016 as the ultimate change election, but that wasn't true. Trump won because the FBI set out to destroy the Democratic candidate.

JFK did two big things in his presidency. First, he got us through the Cuban Missile Crisis. Second, he put a man on the moon. Also, he began laying the foundation for Medicare.

NNadir

(33,534 posts)
13. I argue that the Cuban Missile Crisis...
Wed Aug 8, 2018, 02:02 PM
Aug 2018

...was an event that shouldn't have happened in the first place.

If Donnie succeeds - as is unlikely - at getting the Chinese to buy Soybeans from the US, he will merely be solving a crisis of his own creation. He will deserve no credit, although he might try to take it anyway.

JFK was an unconstructed Cold Warrior. His brother, RFK worked for Joe McCarthy and Roy Cohn for crying out loud. He appointed his brother to be AG anyway. Kennedy himself was the only Democrat to not vote for the Censure.

The Vienna summit and the Bay of Pigs convinced Khrushchev that Kennedy was a light weight and this incompetence led to the world almost stumbling into Nuclear war. That's not an accomplishment; it's a lucky break in avoiding the consequences of one's own recklessness.

The outcome was to lead to an expensive and unnecessary arms race that robbed both sides.

In context the Space Race was nothing more than more cold war crap. Now arguably the American people would not have supported the Space Race outside of military posturing, but Kennedy was nowhere near a competent as LBJ. I'm not sure that if elected in 1960 in lieu of Kennedy that LBJ would have Vietnam as a scar on his record.

I don't buy the argument that JFK would have pulled out of Vietnam. The people in his cabinet, notably CEO type Robert McNamara were precisely the Cold Warriors responsible for the myopic Cold Warrior stuff. Johnson erred in allowing these men to persist, but he was a greater man than Kennedy ever was.

tnlurker

(1,020 posts)
4. If we would have only listened to Jimmy Carter
Mon Aug 6, 2018, 01:47 PM
Aug 2018

To conserve our energy resources we might have made some headway during that decade, and possibly bought ourselves some more time.

Too late for that now.

 

YOHABLO

(7,358 posts)
5. Earth Day 1970 !!
Mon Aug 6, 2018, 01:55 PM
Aug 2018

The First Earth Day
April 22, 1970
We only have one earth, so we need to take care of her. That's what Senator Gaylord Nelson of Wisconsin believed. He was disturbed that an issue as important as our environment was not addressed in politics or by the media, so he created the first Earth Day, on April 22, 1970. An estimated 20 million people nationwide attended festivities that day. It was a truly astonishing grassroots explosion, leading eventually to national legislation such as the Clean Air Act and the Clean Water Act.

defacto7

(13,485 posts)
8. Everything's been said. All I can do is kick and rec.
Mon Aug 6, 2018, 03:13 PM
Aug 2018

It's all a matter of how much time is left, how long can we put off the inevitable.
Do people still think the oligarchs don't know that we are past the tipping point? Why do you think there's a race to grab the most real wealth and to centralize power? Then there are the Dominionists; think opiate of the masses and self fulfilling prophecy. They are a handy tool.
You can come up with your own hypothesis. It's pretty simple.

StevieM

(10,500 posts)
14. This was a long read, but it was worth it.
Wed Aug 8, 2018, 06:08 PM
Aug 2018

It is going to be more than millions who are killed. Climate change may cost hundreds of millions of life. And if we don't solve the problem it may mean an end to our civilization.

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