Environment & Energy
Related: About this forumA123, Solyndra, and EV Battery Innovation
"Battery maker A123 Systems Inc. recently filed for bankruptcy protection, making it the latest in a series of clean energy companies to falter. Without a doubt, this unfortunate development is set to become the next political football in much the same way Solyndra has dominated the energy policy debate. But lets be clear, A123 is not Solyndra. Solyndras downfall was falling silicon prices and rampant Chinese green mercantilism erasing any competitive edge its technology had in the market.
On the other hand, A123 has had to deal with an acute business problem: no one is buying electric cars yet so the demand for its batteries remains low. But what really sets A123 apart from Solyndra is that A123 still developed genuinely innovative technology. In fact, Johnson Controls the U.S. company that is purchasing A123s key assets will continue manufacturing during the bankruptcy process and A123s innovative battery is still set to power the all-electric Chevrolet Spark. As ITIF Senior Analyst Matthew Stepp is quoted as saying in the Detroit Free Press, 'This isnt going to be the last we hear of A123s battery technology. This is just a step in the process of U.S. battery technologies getting better and better.'"
http://theenergycollective.com/mstepp/131691/a123-solyndra-and-ev-battery-innovation?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=The+Energy+Collective+%28all+posts%29
julian09
(1,435 posts)Do you think that the oil and gas stations really want to jump in on charging stations?
We have to rely on parking lots, businesses, homes, etc to get it going.
wtmusic
(39,166 posts)I've driven my Nissan Leaf 9,000 miles and not once used a public charging station, although there are several in my area.
There is 480V charging available for the Leaf, which will supposedly charge it to 70% of capacity in 1/2 hour, but Nissan warns it's inefficient and detrimental to the life of the batteries. As yet, there's no promising solution to the problem, and we may be up against physical limits of the format. And no one wants to sit and wait even 1/2 hour to charge their car.
In contrast, the price of Li-Ion batteries is dropping precipitously, and lithium-air tech may double the energy density of batteries in the next 5-10 years. So by the time anyone can effect an infrastructure buildout EV drivers will be charging their batteries at night for 300 miles of uninterrupted driving. This will bypass the need for 95% of public charging stations.
The exception of course would be for extended trips, which will require a limited public-charging infrastructure.
caraher
(6,279 posts)what kind of range do you get out of your Leaf?
An all-electric car doesn't really do me any good unless I can confidently get at least 100-120 miles out of an overnight charge. I live in a small town and mostly walk or bike in-town, with the bulk of my driving coming in trips to a large city, with no discernible public charging infrastructure, about 50 miles away.
At this point it would probably not be a good choice for you, although if your trips involve a commute many big cities have stations in parking garages. It's pretty easy to find out:
http://www.evchargernews.com/
I live in L.A. and have a second (gasoline) car, which I've used twice in the last 3 months.
As I suspected, nothing in my state (Indiana). Thanks!
PamW
(1,825 posts)Lithium-Ion batteries have their issues too....
AP Exclusive: 787 grounded, but batteries can fly
http://www.sfgate.com/news/crime/article/AP-Exclusive-787-grounded-but-batteries-can-fly-4246843.php
http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Japan-787-probe-finds-thermal-runaway-in-battery-4250901.php
Lithium ion batteries are more susceptible to catching fire when they overheat or to short-circuit than other types of batteries.
PamW
quadrature
(2,049 posts)cobalt in li-ion batts.
well known as a fire hazard
tinrobot
(10,916 posts)Charging stations are pretty well populated, but they're still slow. I can find chargers, but I can't wait. My BMW Active E has a range of about 100 miles. Then, when I charge, it refills at 20mph, meaning a full charge takes almost 5 hours.
For 90% of my driving, the 100 mile range is just fine. I can charge at home overnight. That other 10% is where I have to take a gas powered car or plan for a lengthy charge in order to get home.
Tesla has it right with the 200-300 mile batteries and 30 minute charging in key areas. Once the price on that technology comes down, you'll see mass adoption.
caraher
(6,279 posts)tinrobot
(10,916 posts)Manufacturers can't even standardize fast charging. Not sure if that will happen.
Plus, with batteries costing $10-20K, it seems like it would require a high startup cost to get enough batteries at each station to make it work.
wtmusic
(39,166 posts)Very, very cool.
How are you liking it so far?
tinrobot
(10,916 posts)It definitely drives like a BMW, very zippy and it goes where you point it. No major problems so far, it's been a great car. I can easily get 100 miles out of it in terms of range. It's going to be hard to give it up in 2014 when the lease is up.
Response to wtmusic (Original post)
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PuffedMica
(1,061 posts)We have the ability to meet the future and excel over our competitors, but the Government is not spending ENOUGH money supporting the products. Keeping the clean energy industry running in the United States until a self sustaining market develops is the key. Letting countries like China gain the edge on initial product introduction to main stream manufacturing puts us in a position of perpetual second place.