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GliderGuider

(21,088 posts)
Thu Jun 20, 2013, 01:07 AM Jun 2013

Fossil vs. Low Carbon energy trends to 2040

Here's more fun with data from the 2013 BP Statistical Review. This graph shows the total energy production from 1985 through 2012, aggregated into two categories: High Carbon (fossil fuels) and Low Carbon (renewables, hydro and nuclear power. Each category was extrapolated over the next 28 years using three trends: linear, exponential and polynomial. I used a third-order polynomial for the low carbon energy to give as optimistic a result as possible, but limited fossil fuels to a second-order poly.

CO2 emissions are also extrapolated the same way, and are plotted against the right-hand axis.



The range of trends implies that Low Carbon energy could grow by between 50% and 200% in the next 28 years. For it to grow by 200%, wind power would grow by 11.5% per year: from 118 mtoe today to 2500 mtoe in 2040. IMO this is possible, but only if everything goes well. Solar power is also coming on, and could manage to produce 600 mtoe by 2040. However if we succeed in closing all nuclear power stations by then, the addition of solar would just offset the loss of nuclear power.

The real problem is in the top set of lines. Unless the global growth of fossil fuels is slowed down, we will continue to dump CO2 into the air. The trends rise from 34.5 GT last year to between 50 and 70 GT per year in 2040. This would result in the cumulative emission of about 1200 GT of CO2 between now and then. That's over 90% of the cumulative total we've emitted since 1750...

Carbon dioxide is the main existential threat to the continuation of civilization. The purpose of developing low-carbon energy sources is to reduce or eliminate CO2 emissions. Based on the performance of the last 25 years (or even the last 5 or 10 years), the probability of this happening appears to be very low. There is simply no global appetite for reducing energy use on an absolute basis; energy efficiency does not help to reduce global growth; and fossil fuels are still too cheap, available and convenient to make planned reductions in their use politically feasible.

If low-carbon energy were to follow the highest trend and fossil fuels were to follow the lowest, the global energy mix would still be 75% fossil fuel in 2040. Global energy use in this scenario would rise by an average of 1.25% per year - about half the growth rate of the past 25 years - global economic growth would grind to a halt, or even reverse.

As always, low carbon sources are not yet displacing fossil fuels. Instead, their use is additive - we use them in addition to fossil fuels, not instead of them. If that continues - if we do not find a way to force fossil fuels out of the marketplace - the absolute volumes of CO2 will continue to do their work. Unless we can check the use of fossil fuels, the frogs will boil. I remain pessimistic.

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happyslug

(14,779 posts)
1. That is we can find the fuel to burn
Thu Jun 20, 2013, 01:57 AM
Jun 2013

Oil Production till 2030: Notice the rapid decline in conventional oil, The biggest gains are classified as "To be developed" or "Natural Gas Liquids" with the third biggest gain being "To be discovered". No one knows where this new oil is to be "discovered" be it must be twice as big as shale oil TO MEET EXPECTED DEMAND:


http://peakoil.com/forums/what-future-for-petroleum-t67813.html

What is "Unconventional oil" other then Shale oil?


Now, in the above report, they estimate the changes as follows (for example the above assumes a 3% in conventional oil production, but it has been at a steady 5% drop over the last couple of years):


http://peakoil.com/forums/what-future-for-petroleum-t67813.html

Russia has reported it has had its second year of 5.5 % drop in oil production:

http://peakoil.com/forums/fsu-crude-oil-exports-declined-by-5-5-in-last-2-years-t68370.html

Here is a chart showing the difference between DEMAND and SUPPLY:


http://www.peakprosperity.com/forum/why-peak-oil-will-never-lead-500bbl-crude-oil/38937

Latest Energy Information Agency report on Shale Oil:

http://www.eia.gov/analysis/studies/worldshalegas/

Peak Oil report on the above:
http://peakoil.com/forums/world-has-10-years-of-shale-oil-reports-us-t68330.html

Natural Gas:

Natural Gas is heading for a peak:
http://www.raisethehammer.org/article/460


http://www.geo.cornell.edu/eas/energy/the_challenges/peak_oil.html

Please note the following assumes no one is lying about how much oil, natural gas and coal they have (It is assume by most observers the various OPEC nations have been lying for decades and this the following is 10 years late. i.e. peak oil is NOT in 2015 as the following suggests, but in 2005:

http://ars.els-cdn.com/content/image/1-s2.0-S001623611200230X-fx1.sml
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S001623611200230X


Peak coal appears to be in 2025:
http://www.resilience.org/stories/2007-04-05/peak-coal-2025-say-researchers

Peak coal occurred in England in 1920, England's fall from the major world power to being a lap dog of the US, reflects this drop in coal production after 1920:
http://cassandralegacy.blogspot.com/2013/03/peak-coal-in-britain.html

One report says coal production peaked in 2011:
http://www.declineoftheempire.com/2011/05/peak-coal-this-year.html

In the US, in terms of energy content, Coal Peaked in 1998. We are mining more TONS of coal today, but each ton mined today has so much less energy that the ENERGY in the Coal mined then the energy in the much smaller number of tons of coal mined in 1998.

http://www.energywatchgroup.org/fileadmin/global/pdf/EWG_Report_Coal_10-07-2007ms.pdf

In simple terms, there is no way we can produce the energy that your chart says we will be using coming 2035. Something has to give.

kristopher

(29,798 posts)
2. That doesn't matter to GG.
Thu Jun 20, 2013, 02:10 AM
Jun 2013

He's a one-trick pony that likes to make phony graphs he hopes will scare people.
He has absolutely no interest in accuracy or actual analysis.

 

happyslug

(14,779 posts)
6. But he is correct as to expected energy demand.
Thu Jun 20, 2013, 03:16 AM
Jun 2013

And that is the problem. Renewables (and Nuclear) will NOT supply the energy we will need in 2035, but that is also true of Oil, Natural Gas and Coal.

Worse, I suspect oil exporters of today (The top ten exporters are as follows:

Country Exports
1 Saudi Arabia 8,534 Thousand Barrels of oil per day
2 Russia 7,129 Thousand Barrels of oil per day
3 Iran 2,526 Thousand Barrels of oil per day
4 United Arab Emirates 2,458
5 Nigeria 2,314
6 Kuwait 2,282
7 Iraq 1,909
8 Norway 1,752
9 Angola 1,752
10 Venezuela 1,73

http://www.eia.gov/countries/index.cfm?topL=con

Russia is the # 5 Consumer of oil at 3,220 Thousand Barrels of oil per day, yet remains the #2 net exporter
Saudi Arabia is now the #7 consumer of oil, 2620 Thousand Barrels of oil per day
Iran is the #13 consumer of oil. 1700 Thousand Barrels of oil per day

In the case of those three countries, if production falls (and it is falling in Russia and Iran and some people suspect Saudi Arabia) given a choice of raising internal oil prices OR cutting exports, each will prefer to cut exports. Thus accelerating oil and energy crisis in the rest of the world.

Russia admits to a severe drop in oil production, how far will Putin leave it fall before he shuts off exports (Like he did two years ago in the case of wheat, there was a potential world wide wheat shortage, Putin refused to export wheat, so bread could stay cheap in Russia, that refusal to export forced wheat prices up in the rest of the world, and in area where low end wages are less the $2 a day, i.e. Egypt, you had a revolution).

Russia exports twice as much oil as it consumes (in 2011), what if Putin decides Cheap Gasoline in Russia is more import then dollars from the sale of oil and curtail oil exports in 2-5 years? 5.5 % drop each year over 5 years is less then a 50% drop in production but with the steady increase in gasoline usage in Russia, it may not take that long for production to equal internal consumption.

Saudi Arabia is NOT much better, less internal use, but the world is used to Saudi Arabia higher oil exports. Saudi Arabia has only maintain production by putting into production lower grade oil (that has to be exported to the US to be processed), That is a sign that production is having a hard time increasing and the first sign of peak oil production.

Side note: Do not count on US oil production from Shale oil. Shale Oil is expected to peak around 2017 and drop back to 2000 levels by 2020. Shale Oil and Gas are a bubble and a flash in the pan. It can be a patch, but no one is calling it that, instead people are calling it the wave of the Future. The problem is this wave is a very quick wave,

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/the-big-fracking-bubble-the-scam-behind-the-gas-boom-20120301
, http://www.financialsense.com/contributors/dr-robert-hirsch/middle-east-peak-oil-conference

Now, given the price of oil since 2008, you have a lot of people who are saying peak oil will not occur. The problem is due to the economy doing so badly since 2008, demand for oil in the US has dropped. This has never occurred (During WWII domestic use of oil decline due to gas rationing, but that was more then offset by increase use by the Military during WWII). Thus we are using less oil, due to a bad economy, and for that reason demand for oil is lower then expected (and the price of oil still has NOT dropped to where it was when Bush II became President even with this drop in demand). The problem is oil production is barely holding its own world wide thus there is no excess supply over demand to lead to a drop in the price of oil.

We are looking for rough times in the future. The sooner we adjust to using less energy (i.e. driving less, using more items produced locally etc,) the easier will be out transition to a less energy intensive life style.

kristopher

(29,798 posts)
9. I wouldn't trust EIA or BP or IEA for any forecasts.
Thu Jun 20, 2013, 05:08 AM
Jun 2013

They have a record of the worst forecasting for future energy trends of almost anyone out there.

We have cost effective viable alternatives for most applications currently being served by fossil fuels. The central role of renewables is crystalizing and part of that system is a shift towards consumer consciousness about the quantity of energy consumed and system-wide enhancements that will dramatically improve the life cycle efficiencies for the way we employ energy across the board. Predicting future energy usage based on today's inefficient methods of energy production and consumption is a fools errand.


So no, he almost certainly does not have an accurate perception of future energy demand.

 

GliderGuider

(21,088 posts)
13. A look at my track record for the last six years
Thu Jun 20, 2013, 12:42 PM
Jun 2013

I wrote the article World Energy to 2050 in October 2007, based on the BP Review of 2007.

In it I forecast a possible trajectory for various energy sources out to 2050. I just went back and compared my numbers for 2012 with those from BP. The comparison shows some interesting things:

  • I underestimated the growth of oil and coal by ~4% each: Peak Oil didn't bite as fast as I expected, and China's determination to industrialize or die trying caused a spike in world coal consumption that I didn't foresee.
  • I overestimated the growth of gas by ~9%.
  • I underestimated the growth of renewables by ~25%; and I overestimated the performance of nuclear power by about the same percentage - though a higher absolute amount.
  • I underestimated the growth of hydro by ~10%.
  • My estimate for total primary energy in 2012 was off by ~0.8%.
  • My forecast split between fossil and low carbon energy sources was off by ~1% in each direction - 1% low for fossil fuels, 1.4% high for low carbon sources.
Overall, given that this was a first attempt and I was in the grip of Peak Oil Panic at the time, I'm satisfied that I have a clear view of how things are going to unfold in the short term (say 10-20 years). I now expect that, as happened to my earlier estimates, the growth in renewable energy will continue to balance the decline in nuclear power, and fossil fuels will remain king over the next 20 years.

IMO we are not going to stop the fossil fuel juggernaut by any discretionary intervention. Limits to growth will come from outside, not inside, human culture. As Marvin Harris understood, we will keep making up narratives to justify what we're doing until circumstances force cultural change to flow up from the infrastructure yet again.
 

GliderGuider

(21,088 posts)
4. I don't think the world is anywhere near "Peak Coal" yet.
Thu Jun 20, 2013, 02:42 AM
Jun 2013

I also think we'll keep drilling and fracking and mining (and burning) our brains out until the EROI of the energy sources drops below 5:1.

The problem we have is that if the overall energy use doesn't rise at better than 1.5% a year (which is possible if we hit peaks in oil and gas), civilization may no longer be able to support its asset base (which is taking over 80% of our energy right now just to maintain). Humanity is so utterly, thermodynamically self-interested, though, that the pressure to keep the growth going as long as possible is going to be irresistible. As irresistible as it is today...

We will not stop searching for and consuming energy. We will not stop looking for ways around whatever limits may loom in front of us. We can't, because all life is built to search for and consume energy, and the human brain was evolved as a limit-removal mechanism to aid that process. We also should not expect individual choices (even those made by high-level endividuals) to change the global course of events.

This is from an email I wrote a few days ago:

Human beings are genetically programmed to reproduce to excess. In fact, all life is programmed that way, to allow for selection and species survival. Mother Nature cares cares deeply about births. However, she knows that death will take care of itself, and she isn't at all sentimental about it.

We are also genetically programmed to consume. All life is programmed like that, too. The main thing life (including us) is programmed to find and consume is energy. Plants seek and consume sunlight, animals including humans seek out and consume other life forms. This search for and consumption of energy is the prime directive of all life. It is what identifies living organisms as "dissipative structures", to use Ilya Prigogine's term. All our other consumption is founded on this fundamental requirement for energy. All other human activity is dependent on our success in the search for energy. Our consumptive behavior is shaped by our genetic programming, which is shaped in turn by the second law of thermodynamics. Based on this chain of reasoning, the fundamental structuring principle of all human behavior is the Second Law.

Because the search for energy is the thermodynamic prime directive of all life, we can not stop it. We continually search for sources of chemical, mechanical, thermal and electrical energy because we can do nothing else. As a result we can't stop our secondary consumption - of houses, computers, books and USB-controlled sex toys and the rest of the "ten thousand things" - either. We can control some of it on an individual basis, but we can't stop the collective behavior.

Individual choices and decisions have very little impact on collective events. The two exist at different levels and are subject to different rules. Population decline, like all forms of degrowth, can't come about through individual action, because so few people are able to make decisions like that.

What I think is that we probably have “free will” as individuals, but that as our collectivities become larger, our collective behaviour becomes statistically deterministic. We have something in common with gas molecules that way. An individual gas molecule doesn't have a temperature or a pressure, it has a position and a velocity. When you put a large number of molecules together, each of them still has a position and a velocity, but the aggregate now has a temperature and a pressure, as a result of all those positions and velocities adding up statistically.

Temperature and pressure are statistically deterministic, and depend on the number of gas molecules, the size of the space they’re confined in, and the energy fed into the gas. Similarly, the behaviour of human civilization is statistically deterministic, and depends on the number of people (7 billion, and the more people there are the more deterministic the behavior becomes), the finite space we’re confined in (i.e. the surface of the planet) and the amount of energy flowing into the system (~18 terawatts at last estimate).

One reason we’re susceptible to statistically deterministic behaviour is that we don’t realize that most of our brain power is devoted to removing limits. We have a very hard time placing limits on ourselves – the exact situation one would expect from an organism that evolved to be a very effective gradient dissipator. Degrowth of any sort can only happen on a global basis as the result of hitting a limit we can't figure out a way to defeat.

So we are not bound by a strict determinism, but like anything else in the universe our free will has limits. It’s just that we evolved to be blind to those limits in order to become better thermodynamically dissipative structures.

Most people accept the idea that individual actions determine the collective outcome. I mean, it's just obvious, right? I'm pretty sure this is just another flat-earth mistake born of misinterpreted perceptions, though. It falls in the same category as believing that the Sun revolves around the Earth. The realization that human behaviour is limited by hard-to-perceive physical principles is simply a completion of the Copernican/Galilean revolution - no matter how many people would prefer that it not be so, and therefore decline to look through the telescope.

The only proven driver of actual population reduction (as opposed to merely slowing its growth) so far has been economic collapse a la Eastern Europe and the ex-USSR.

Slowing down population growth through increasing global affluence requires enriching the world's population, and there aren't enough resources to manage that for the whole planet. We'll try, of course, and kill the planet in the process - which will bring about population reduction. The Demographic Transition Theory is sometimes called the "Benign Demographic Transition Theory". From the viewpoint of the planetary ecosphere as a whole, there's nothing even remotely "benign" about it.

I've seen no evidence that education alone acts to reduce the population of impoverished countries. Poor countries are usually trying very hard to grow in order to become rich. Regarding education, whether of women or any/everyone else, we should do that because it's a good thing to do, not with any expectation of controlling population growth. We should understand that making people richer and/or better educated will probably accelerate planetary damage rather than reduce it, but we should do it anyway because it's a good thing. Unfortunately the road to planetary hell has been paved with such good intentions for the last 50,000 years, and that aspect of reality isn't about to change now.

We cannot initiate collective species-wide degrowth by targeting individuals, changing politics, policies, economies or anything else. We can prepare those few who are able to maintain their individual autonomy with respect to these issues, but their personal outcomes will still depend largely on the collective outcome. The collective outcome is not amenable to "change from above" (which includes policy changes, education and changing values or beliefs.

We have been chained to the tiger since before our ancient ancestors were eukaryotes. The links in that chain are the natural principles of physics, chemistry, biology and genetics. The lock is the Second Law of Thermodynamics.

So, while we can argue the minutiae of Peak Oil or the rate of development of renewable energy, and while CO2 is still the smoking gun at the murder scene, human activity in general is the culprit in the destruction of the planetary ecosphere. And IMO we can't even be blamed for it. The Second Law of Thermodynamics operating in non-equilibrium open systems like human civilization made the outcome inevitable since shortly after the Earth cooled enough to allow the formation of water. Human beings are just the most effective mechanisms yet evolved in the ongoing universal quest to fulfill the thermodynamic mandate of destroying energy gradients.

kristopher

(29,798 posts)
3. Renewables expected to account for 69-74% of new power capacity thru 2030
Thu Jun 20, 2013, 02:19 AM
Jun 2013

The rate of change in the model's results is remarkable. The question is, of course, how predictive it is of future developments. I attribute the volatility of the modeling to game changing behavior from China and Germany. The rest of Far East Asia, India and Africa are still wild cards whose behavior isn't significant enough to strongly influence predictions on demand and the consequent buildup of manufacturing. I think the modeling 5 years from now is going to be radically different than what we see now - and it will be in a good way. YMMV

Bloomberg New Energy Finance
STRONG GROWTH FOR RENEWABLES EXPECTED THROUGH TO 2030

Improvements in cost-competitiveness means that renewables will account for between 69% and 74% of new power capacity added by 2030 worldwide, despite current difficult market conditions


London and New York, 22 April 2013 – New research by analysts at Bloomberg New Energy Finance show that annual investment in new renewable power capacity is set to rise by anywhere from two and a half times to more than four and a half times between now and 2030. The likeliest scenario implies a jump of 230%, to $630bn per year by 2030, driven by further improvements in the cost-competitiveness of wind and solar technologies relative to fossil fuel alternatives, as well as an increase in the roll-out of non-intermittent clean energy sources like hydro, geothermal and biomass.

....

Bloomberg New Energy Finance’s predictions for world energy markets to 2030 come from its Global Energy and Emissions Model, which integrates all of the main determinants of the energy future, including economic prosperity, global and regional demand growth, the evolution of technology costs, likely developments in policies to combat climate change, and trends in fossil fuel markets. Together these form three scenarios: “New Normal”, “Barrier Busting” and “Traditional Territory”.

The New Normal scenario is considered the most likely. It shows the investment requirement for new clean energy assets in the year 2030 at $630bn (in nominal terms), more than three times the investment in the renewable energy capacity that was built in 2012. This 2030 investment figure is 35% higher than that produced in Bloomberg New Energy Finance’s last global forecast a year ago, and the projection for total installed renewable energy capacity by that date is 25% higher than in that previous forecast, at 3,500GW.

In the power sector, the research company’s latest forecasts project that 70% of new power generation capacity added between 2012 and 2030 will be from renewable technologies (including large hydro). Only 25% will be in the form of coal, gas or oil, the remaining being nuclear. The scenarios are based on Bloomberg New Energy Finance’s latest projections for coal and gas prices. For gas, these assume prices stabilise in real terms at $6, $9 and $11/MMBtu in the US, Europe and the Asia respectively.

For comparison, the International Energy Agency’s New Policies scenario forecasts that 57% of power capacity added during this period will be from renewable resources (including large hydro)....


http://about.bnef.com/press-releases/strong-growth-for-renewables-expected-through-to-2030/


ETA: This writeup on the Bloomberg research from MotherJones is worth reading in full. The charts they selected deserve sharing as a reminder of where this type of growth, should it occur, will leave us:

Charting new generation only:


Total generation:


MotherJones writeup here:
http://www.motherjones.com/blue-marble/2013/04/charts-renewable-energy-fossil-fuels
 

happyslug

(14,779 posts)
7. 60% of not enough is still not enough
Thu Jun 20, 2013, 03:23 AM
Jun 2013

And he is citing NEW ENERGY SOURCES not ALL ENERGY SOURCES. 60% of 10 is only 6 and we need 100 (numbers are for demonstration only). As your first graph shows, Coal, natural Gas and oil are expected to increase by a smaller percentage then Hydro, Solar and wind, but by a much higher total level. i.e in my example about the 94 we need (again the numbers are for demonstration only, I would have to look at the actual number but it is time for me to go to bed).

 

GliderGuider

(21,088 posts)
8. I don't think anyone appreciates how close to the energy line we're running.
Thu Jun 20, 2013, 03:31 AM
Jun 2013

As I said above, the vast majority of our energy appears to be going to support the structures of civilization that have already been built. We have maybe 15% leeway to the downside before we have to choose between ongoing growth or the maintenance of existing infrastructure. At that point the global economy is at enormous risk.

Rust never sleeps.

ETA: And kristopher's sweetly soothing graphs make absolutely no mention of transportation - the consumer of 40% of the world's oil (and virtually none of its renewable power).

muriel_volestrangler

(101,361 posts)
10. However, those graphs are only for electricity generation
Thu Jun 20, 2013, 09:15 AM
Jun 2013

Transport and heating have to be considered too. While both can be powered by electricity, at present, they mainly directly use fossil fuels. Do those graphs assume an increase in electricity use for transport and heating - if so, how much?

 

GliderGuider

(21,088 posts)
12. We're already losing the planetary biosphere
Thu Jun 20, 2013, 12:17 PM
Jun 2013

We'll continue to lose it until well after those lines begin to slope down - even after they go all the way to zero.

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