You're probably gonna love this.

Musk's concept. I'd love to hear someone who understands this to explain it.

It would appear that the idea involves sending the passengers through a steel tube at 4000 mph, possibly by packing them into pressurized cans?

Musk said at the All Things D conference in June.

( http://abcnews.go.com/m/blogEntry?id=19680519&sid=79&cid=79 )

A vacuum tube!

You have to remove the air because 4,000 mph is about 5 times the speed of sound. (Sonic booms in a tube? Not pleasant.) Plus you'd have problems with air pressure differentials ahead of and behind the capsule. So, if it breaks down and you get stuck halfway, hold your breath till help help comes.

To get to 4,000 mph in a six minute trip, 3 minutes of acceleration, 3 minutes of deceleration, you'd need 1 g acceleration and 1 g deceleration. That's way more than the typical airliner.

A skyscraper. But once or twice a week, I would be assigned the task of carrying bank files to the 60th floor - and that meant an elevator ride to that height.

I never felt good, for hours, after making that trip. I assume that people who actually worked up there every day did get acclimated to it, but I sure didn't.
There is no way I'd sign up for this ride, no matter how genius it is.

Just as it stared to drop I kicked off from the ankles and seemingly levitated way up off the floor for the force applied for the jump, (as the floor was falling away from me) and I was weightless briefly before seeming to drop in slow motion to the floor.

Trippy.

Anyone with access to an express elevator should try it.

Come to think of it - I have used the express elevators to both the top of John Hancock building and Sear's Tower. They didn't affect me the way that the bank's elevator did. Maybe technology of a few years later had improved the ride?

I do remember that the top of the Hancock sways horribly in the middle of a wind storm. I won't visit that place on any fantastically windy days.

Think "cruise ship".

I mean that literally. This is the U.S.A.. I've seen the bullet holes in signs along the highway.

Zipping along at 4,000 mph and running into air at sea level pressure would turn you into a tumbling wall of cinders in a second or two.

I'd have to guess that yes, yes it is bullet proof.

And didn't feel like an enema?

I still don't have that carbon fiber car that popular mechanics promised in the 80s. I doubt this will ever be made

If I was Emperor of the Earth I'd make 35mph the universal speed limit and I'd use my space fortresses to vaporize any man-made vehicle traveling faster than that. With the exceptions of wind powered, human powered, emergency services, or peaceful space exploration machines.

Yes, you'd better put a speed limiter on your antique Corvette or you will be turned into hot stinky smoke. Jet airplane? Gone. All vaporized on the runways after fair warning.

Might as well tow your old car with an oat-powered horse, Amish style.

If you must go fast go get yourself a bicycle, put on a helmet, and find a long steep hill to ride down.

Highway 154 down to Santa Barbara used to work for me on a bicycle, and I've done far, far worse on absurdly powerful motorcycles... But I am older and wiser now, and fortunately not dead with scars to prove it.

Yep, these days I'm an environmentalist fascist. I hate your car as much as I hate my own. Our family cars have mileage to the moon and now they are working their way back. They are old enough to vote. They continue to live only to spite me. They hate me as I hate them. This is not a positive relationship. Fuck you, car, you didn't pass the smog test? I can make you pass the smog test. Oh yeah? My fuel pump relay will burn out in a bad neighborhood in Oakland at 1:13 in the morning.

Look, threatening dude, you don't want nothing I've got. C'mon, you think I'd be driving this car if I had money??? Okay, I've got $3.16 in my pocket, a VISA card well past it's limit, and maybe once I get these wires twisted together I can give you a ride. Want some coffee? Threatening dude is bought off with $2.00. His life must suck way more than mine.

I don't understand why everyone is in such a hurry to go nowhere. Life is nothing if you are not enjoying the ride. Get on a big, luxury, high tech sailing ship and cross the oceans. Enjoy the ride on slow trains spanning continents. Open the windows, stick your head out, and smell the air just like a dog in a car.

Tour the world? Sure! A few years on slow boats, trains, on foot, on electric scooters, legs, or wheelchairs. Wonderful! No hurry, no deadlines. Wherever you go, there you are.

Retired mom and dad are calling from Australia. They'll be back in a year or two, or maybe not. But they are having a great time.

The world is so much more interesting when we slow down enough to taste it. I'd probably compromise a little on the 35mph limit. Maybe revert to the old 55mph. Most cars seem to get best mpg between 45 and 50mph.
On the water, if I'm doing 10mph, I'm having a blast.

Frankly, Im happiest when walking. So do I win?

I totally agree with you. I wasn't advocating 500MPH, but was more commenting on mankind's focused gaze toward the stars while he misses life in the peripheral (which is falling apart). There is much more to the human experience than the hustle and bustle we have just recently created.

Thanks.

Gathering global experts in one place would be time consuming. Boston to Sydney was bad enough in a 747.

Bankers???

When was the last time you saw anything constructive come out of a gathering of "experts?"

I've been to too many medical and scientific conferences. The internet has made so many things obsolete. I think traditional sorts of conferences and meetings are obsolete. By the time a conference is gathered together much of the content is already old news.

Business meetings are even worse. One of my siblings was flying around as a corporate executive but has since retired to be an artist. You're not welcome in corporate U.S.A. once you start answering three A.M. calls with "Is anyone going to die? No? Good. I'll take a look at it in the morning. 'Bye."

Sell the shares they lured you in with and escape.

One of my kids recently graduated from college and now has a job that involves some flying around, which is probably exciting when one is young (you're so important to the company that they are buying you business class airline tickets and putting you up in nicer hotels!) But soon it grows wearisome...

"Face to face" through a computer screen is less hassle.

I think the only exception I'd make is immediate, life-or-death emergencies like the Copiapó mining accident in Chile where multiple experts and their specialized equipment are urgently needed at a particular site.

Hey, it's my utopia. I can do as I please with it...

Alot can and is done remotely. But it's usually stiff and formal over electronic conferences. Sometimes what is really needed is a more personal understanding of where someone is coming from. Those insights are easier to learn and build relationships with during less formal activities, like lunch or an evening reception etc.

The new Boeing 787 is 50% carbon fiber. Lighter and much stronger than steel or aluminum.

Monorail!

I mean if you kept on traveling on that thing, could you maybe live a little longer, relative to those who don't? Maybe??? (I know, probably not. Just throwing it out there.)

All we need is faster ways to shuttle billionaires around. I do love the technology though.

Dick-heads.

Billionaires fly their own private jets. Those people on the planes need to or want to go to the other city for regular old 'can't afford charter' reasons. 6.5 million and you claim they are all billionaires!!!!! Hi-larious!

I travel fairly often between the two cities. Never felt the need or desire to take a plane. If I'm in a hurry, I drive, which is about as fast as a plane for most door to door trips. If I'm not in a hurry, I go by wind and maybe a little motoring, which takes 3-5 days.
But 6 minutes? Who's in that kind of a hurry? Surely not 6.5 million, but maybe the odd billionaire who needs to attend a power breakfast in both cities. Imagine if there was one to NYC.

I always like your perspective, but frankly on this one you sound like Marie Antoinette endorsing the consumption of cake. A lot of those air travelers would rather be doing almost anything else, but their employment demands their participation. Sneering at them seems out of character for the you I've come to know.

Aircraft servicing this market contribute appreciably to the problem of climate change and air travel isn't going to disappear because people want to be climate friendly or adopt a "slower" lifestyle.

We are working on alternatives to reduce or eliminate GHG emissions related to the demand for high speed travel, but the options aren't materializing very quickly. Biofuels are the most promising, and in areas of higher population density high speed rail is a good approach. I'd consider these more likely than what Musk is hinting at, but I might change my mind once I hear the details next month.

I agree with most of what you say. I also like Musk. We need more entrepreneurs like him.
You are correct about the aircraft traffic, and obviously there are many travelers who have little other choice, unfortunately. There are also many who do have a choice, but are just in too much of a hurry. Or, as you say, don't think it through.
When I drive between LA and SF, and I'm in a hurry (which happens occasionally), it takes about 6 hours each way and about 15 gallons of regular for the round trip. There are always at least 2 people in the car.
Rail travel is nothing like it should be in this country, which is a great shame. I have taken Amtrak across country a couple of times and loved it. However, compared to Europe, Japan and China, the US is still in the 19th century when it comes to long distance passenger trains.

That said, I am fascinated by this Hyperloop, and look forward to further developments.

Now, where did I put my 1967 Boy's Life magazine about spending the weekend in the Undersea Leisure-Dome on the floor of the Atlantic Ocean?

Something like this has been inevitable ever since Ug and Zug figured out that you had to make the wheels round.

I’d prefer one of these please:

SkyTran would be good for metro areas, but not long haul distances.

100 kph is about 60 mph, you can drive faster (if the roads were not filled with cars)

Kind of the point...

It's more modest, but, I think, more helpful.

I'm trying to imagine how much a gigantic pneumatic tube would cost...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beach_Pneumatic_Transit

If you are going to have to build it from scratch, why would you design slower then what the roads are designed for?

If you are going to go 60 mph between LA and SF, you will need 2 parallel systems, one North Bound and one South Bound. How far apart do the tracks have to be to avoid issues with wind from passing cars?

At 4000 mph, you can get away with one tube.

Like I said 60mph is great for a metro area, but unworkable for long haul. LA to SF is not even a midrange trip. What are you going to do on that 5 and half hour trip, in a two person car if nature calls? You are going to have to think long and hard if that coffee you picked up on the way to the station is worth it... Medical emergency in a two person car and 5 hours from your destination?

Seriously… who needs to?

Yes the hyperloop is intended for city-to-city express travel, and not for local travel. However, when it comes to doing the greatest good… I think society’s money would be better spent on a smooth running 60MPH transit system.

You don't travel at 4000 mph becasue you need to, you do it because you can. If the technology allows 4000 mph, you go that fast. If you can get there in an hour, why wouldn't you? Why would you take days to do it?

Your SkyTran from New York to LA is going to take some serious time. How are you going to eat, sleep, take care of bodily functions in a two person car on a multiday trip?

Still haven't answered what you are going to do on that >5 hour trip in a 2 person car. You going to get a catheter inserted before you leave? Adult diapers? What?

I think that efficient 60 MPH intra-urban transport would produce much greater societal benefits than 4,000 MPH inter-urban transport.

Rather than worrying about the minority of people who travel between New York and Los Angeles, how about the people who travel into, out of and around New York and Los Angeles every day?

As for your straw man argument, tell me, how is it that people manage to drive cars long distances? (They stop occasionally.)

This isn't a competition between the two. SkyTran is , as I have noted, a great idea for metro transit. In other words, it has nothing to do with travel between cities.

Both could be built, we don't have to choose one or the other. Your posts would be good for an original OP ( you should do it) , but, really, off topic in this thread.

We cannot build everything. We’re not even maintaining the transit systems we have already built.

http://t4america.org/blog/2013/06/19/one-in-9-bridges-still-structurally-deficient-as-average-age-nears-50-years/

You can even ask Elon Musk to change his mind.

Can you imagine being stuck between stations? Power and air conditioning shut down and you're stuck in a glass enclosed bubble in the middle of the Israeli heat. Think about the kids and animals we keep hearing about being roasted to death inside cars and you get my point.

…or, maybe they would!

0 to 1780 meters per second in how short a time? At 1 G you need 3 minutes just to get up to speed. Unless this is only for astronauts and other military types it's going to take a bit longer than 6 minutes to cover LA to SF. And can I throw you into your seatbelts for 3 minutes straight or do I have to rotate the chair/couch? And what are plans B, C and D when the car doesn't go all the way, malfunctions etc? Service tunnel/access ports?

Wouldn't rotating them so that the person is facing down reduce the acceleration G forces? Trade gravity pushing you into the belts with acceleration pushing you into the seat. Reduce acceleration at the midpoint and the chair rotates to "Normal", then rotates to face the rear of the car, then rotates face down again for the deccel... Do it right with no external view and the rider probably wouldn't realize the transition.

Been too long since physics classes, but I would assume that you could get 1.5 G acceleration without the rider even knowing that they were moving.

Not that any of them can't be solved. But the limitations of the Human body in particular regarding the population at large adds alot of restrictions to provide a minimum level of safety. If something fails, catches fire etc. and the system breaks down how fast can personnel get to the disabled car, what do they breath, what if there is a medical condition involved? In an airplane we know what the procedures are if a motor falls off. Do I need a maintenance tube adjacent with a service car and access ports every km? Do I walk people out in an emergency. A 400 mile evacuated tube being filled with air and all those access ports will stress/flex metal and generate heat which must be accounted for in initial design.

Not to mention the problem of securing rights of way to have a straight line between two cities. US rail uses a 100 meter min. radius curve. At these speeds you couldn't run less than 300km, more likely twice that and some people would still find it harsh. (Note the Earths surface curvature is 6,000km radius.) It's an interesting concept. But at the moment the 5in rail gun hasn't been fielded by the Navy yet. And than I would suggest applying it to freight before people just to work the kinks out. But I suspect that has more merit in inter-asteroid transport.

No one implied it would be easy, and they have only released the barest minimum of details. Why worry about stuff they obviously will have to plan for?

Gimbaled seats will allow canceling out turns as well. You are quite correct that it will have to be fairly straight, but not as much due to human limits as you seem to think. As I pointed out, you could get 1.5 G acceleration down the track with no apparent motion at all. I really don't know why you think it would stress a person any more than sitting motionless in a stationary recliner.

Catch fire? In a vacuum? In a car with essentialy no moving parts? Medical Emergency? 6 minutes to the station, why would you stop? What do maintenance/emergency personnel breath? Um, air, obviously. Either in pressurized suits or the repressurized tunnel. How fast can personnel get to a disabled air craft? You need the vacuum to hit 4000mph, but repressurize and you still have a maglev system that could easily do 60 mph without breaking a sweat. Maglev disabled? The cars will undoubtedly have wheels they will ground on when not levitated. Earth's radius will have to be accounted for in the design, but it will have nothing to do with human comfort. Do you really think they would not designed the tube for repeated rapid depressure/pressure cycles?

Nothing will be able to counteract a catastrophic tube failure at the point of failure, obviously. Worst case scenario, if an earthquake severed the tube, game over if you get there a second later. If you are more than a couple seconds away, you will be running into a steadily increasing air brake. There's no way to make it perfectly safe, but I'd rather be in the tube that fails to being pressurized than in a plane that fails to being depressurized and then falling for 30,000 feet.

At roller coaster acceleration (~1.6G) it would be slightly under two minutes to get up to speed, but that's not going to be comfortable for a large segment of the population.

The demise of the Concorde was accompanied by the demise of faster = better in transportation, which was pretty much a given when I was growing up in the seventies. With the variety of "virtual presence" options provided by the internet, physical presence loses value.

I don't want to go until they work the kinks out.

But hopefully we'd have Hannity loaded up and ready to go in headfirst at 4000 mph to clear the tube by "bringing up the rear" so to speak.

Now blow me.

We can't even get HSR in because of the screaming about it here.

Vacuum-holding straight tubes, magnetic levitation and probably magnets pulling the cars along...this reminds me of a linear accelerator.

Try this on for size: instead of firing people through a linac (and FSM help them if an earthquake cracks the tube) build a maglev monorail with cars that hold 50 people and go 700 mph - faster than a regional jet. Run the line from LAX to SFO. Doing so would allow the airport authorities to free up ramp space, the airlines to find more profitable routes and the passengers to not have to take their shoes off. If you could run this cheaper than the airlines, it'd be popular...and you could get the snakes out easier.

How about a LA-SF-Vegas triangle route?

I would prefer that he sink his money into a space elevator.

That is far more achievable than trying to convince the powers that be to allow him to clear the various hurdles to get this done.

He's an interesting guy. Maybe the space elevator will be next?