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kristopher

(29,798 posts)
Tue Oct 22, 2013, 04:51 PM Oct 2013

Fla. regulators approve Duke Energy nuclear plant settlement

Solar homeowners are a threat because they supposedly don't pay their "fair share" of costs for the grid, the utilities say; and yet:

Fla. regulators approve Duke Energy nuclear plant settlement

TALLAHASSEE, Fla. — Florida customers of Duke Energy will be paying the next several years for shuttered nuclear power plants under a settlement approved by state regulators.

...The Crystal River plant was shut down permanently following repairs that cracked a wall in the facility. This summer, the Charlotte, N.C. based company abandoned plans to build the Levy County plant.

Under the settlement, the average residential customer would pay $5.62 a month starting in January. But the cost could go up even more between 2015 and 2019.

...Duke has been collecting money from customers for a while and has already collected $1 billion, Channel 9 has learned.


http://www.wftv.com/news/news/local/fla-regulators-approve-nuclear-plant-settlement/nbQtS/
13 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Fla. regulators approve Duke Energy nuclear plant settlement (Original Post) kristopher Oct 2013 OP
What a deal madokie Oct 2013 #1
It's an artifact of the regulatory structure. FBaggins Oct 2013 #2
Only with nuclear do I see this happening madokie Oct 2013 #3
That could only be because it's the only thing you're looking for. FBaggins Oct 2013 #6
Like what madokie Oct 2013 #7
Ohio uses it for gasification projects FBaggins Oct 2013 #8
I'm finding links to projects madokie Oct 2013 #9
Ok FBaggins Oct 2013 #10
OK thank you madokie Oct 2013 #11
Several states banned CWIP in the 70s and 80s because of nuclear boondoggles. bananas Oct 2013 #13
It's a special carve out for nuclear called CWIP kristopher Oct 2013 #4
At best it sounds like a scam to me madokie Oct 2013 #5
Teh Suckage continues.... jpak Oct 2013 #12

madokie

(51,076 posts)
1. What a deal
Tue Oct 22, 2013, 06:53 PM
Oct 2013

for Duke Energy. How the hell can it be that rate payers have to pay for something that isn't even going to be built let alone paying for it before it was even built.

Something wrong with this picture for sure.

FBaggins

(26,748 posts)
2. It's an artifact of the regulatory structure.
Tue Oct 22, 2013, 07:13 PM
Oct 2013

If FL had a "free market"... then those companies would have to compete with alternative providers and if they spent a billion dollars preping for a build that never went through (or screwed up a repair on a piece of equipment)... they would be SOL.

But most parts of the country have regulated monopolies where the government decides who can play and how much they can charge. The company's profits are too often tied to a percentage of their costs... which means that there's little incentive to avoid costs.

It's a pretty clear moral hazard - though it has little to do with nuclear power except to the extent that nuclear projects have large dollar figures associated with them.

madokie

(51,076 posts)
3. Only with nuclear do I see this happening
Tue Oct 22, 2013, 07:19 PM
Oct 2013

Where else is it allowed to charge for something before its built
If what is going on in Japan right now isn't enough to call into question the so called safety of nuclear power plants I don't know what is. Removing the fuel rods in unit 4 is going to be one dicey operation. My hope is it goes as planned but at this point its pretty Iffy

FBaggins

(26,748 posts)
6. That could only be because it's the only thing you're looking for.
Tue Oct 22, 2013, 07:35 PM
Oct 2013

It has been used for lots of different generation and transmission projects (including renewables).

FBaggins

(26,748 posts)
8. Ohio uses it for gasification projects
Tue Oct 22, 2013, 07:47 PM
Oct 2013

Colorado has used it for transmission projects for years.

There are loads of examples. Utilities have huge capital expenditures required over the next few decades and they don't have the rock-solid credit ratings that they once had... so financing gets more and more expensive. So long-term expensive projects (of any type) become more challenging. States have found CWIP to be more attractive than proviging financing themselves.

madokie

(51,076 posts)
9. I'm finding links to projects
Tue Oct 22, 2013, 08:01 PM
Oct 2013

in both states but so far I'm not finding anything that suggest that rate payers are on the hook for any of these projects prior to their being built. Transmission projects in Colorado or gasification projects in Iowa, or anywhere else for that matter.
Help me out here with some links or something

FBaggins

(26,748 posts)
10. Ok
Tue Oct 22, 2013, 11:00 PM
Oct 2013
FERC also granted Atlantic Wind's requests for several other incentives, such as inclusion of 100 percent of construction work in progress (CWIP) in rate base, the opportunity to recover 100 percent of prudently incurred costs if the project is abandoned for reasons outside the company's control and a hypothetical capital structure based on 60 percent equity and 40 percent debt.

Also today, FERC approved rate incentives for Desert Southwest Power's proposed 118-mile, 500-kV transmission line to move power from resources such as wind generation to Southern California. The order grants a combined incentive ROE adder of 150 basis points, rather than the 200 basis points that Desert Southwest requested. The order also grants Desert Southwest's requests for inclusion of 100 percent CWIP in rate base, the opportunity to recover 100 percent of prudently incurred costs if the project is abandoned for reasons outside the company's control and a hypothetical capital structure of 50 percent equity and 50 percent debt.


http://www.ferc.gov/media/news-releases/2011/2011-2/05-19-11-E-1.asp


Also

http://www.aep.com/about/IssuesAndPositions/Financial/Regulatory/AlternativeRegulation/CWIP.aspx

bananas

(27,509 posts)
13. Several states banned CWIP in the 70s and 80s because of nuclear boondoggles.
Fri Oct 25, 2013, 02:25 PM
Oct 2013

There was no reason to ban it before then because it had been used responsibly.
In the 2000's, nuclear industry lobbyists corrupted the political system to get those bans repealed.
In some states they were succesful, in other states they weren't.

kristopher

(29,798 posts)
4. It's a special carve out for nuclear called CWIP
Tue Oct 22, 2013, 07:23 PM
Oct 2013

In energy, Construction Work In Progress (CWIP) is a legal and regulatory arrangement where, because the capital costs are so high and the fundamental economics so poor, nuclear plants are allowed to charge and collect up-front for everything.
Other generation is built almost exclusively within various economic arrangements that do not pose any similar type of risk for the ratepayer - nothing is payed until and unless it is for power actually generated.

This same practice has traditionally generated huge losses paid that have been for by taxpayers and ratepayers.

madokie

(51,076 posts)
5. At best it sounds like a scam to me
Tue Oct 22, 2013, 07:26 PM
Oct 2013

If nuclear had to play on a level playing field there would be very few if any nuclear power plants today

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