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xchrom

(108,903 posts)
Mon Dec 16, 2013, 10:36 AM Dec 2013

The Permanent Crisis at Fukushima

http://www.commondreams.org/view/2013/12/16-3


Greenpeace experts examine fish samples on the Rainbow Warrior to monitor radiation levels as the ship sails up the eastern coast of Japan on her way to Fukushima in May 2011.(Credit: Jeremy Sutton-Hibbert / Greenpeace.)


Hundreds of tons of radioactively contaminated water leak from the damaged Fukushima nuclear reactors every day. That water has to go somewhere and the operator of the plant is running out of places to store it. So the suggestion has been made that it be dumped in the sea.

At the scene of the Fukushima nuclear disaster they can’t clean anything without getting something else dirty.

The plant’s operator TEPCO has a decontamination system at Fukushima called ALPS (Advanced Liquid Processing System). It takes the contaminated water and filters out most of the radioactivity except for tritium. This “tritiated” water is then stored in tanks.

The problem is that ALPS hasn’t been the most reliable of systems at Fukushima. Of the three systems in use, two had to be shut down for repairs earlier this year when it was found they were being corroded by the very water they were supposed to decontaminate. Last week one of them was found to be leaking hydrochloric and was shut down again.
6 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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The Permanent Crisis at Fukushima (Original Post) xchrom Dec 2013 OP
The anti-nuke IQ test PamW Dec 2013 #1
The pro-nuke IQ test ljm2002 Dec 2013 #2
ILL-POSED Problem!!! PamW Dec 2013 #3
I would have thought you could comprehend... ljm2002 Dec 2013 #4
100% WRONG!! AGAIN!! PamW Jan 2014 #5
Careful ljm... kristopher Jan 2014 #6

PamW

(1,825 posts)
1. The anti-nuke IQ test
Mon Dec 16, 2013, 11:09 AM
Dec 2013

The above post provides another opportunity to cite my anti-nuke IQ test:

Suppose I have a given amount of radioactive material; "X" Bq of radioactivity and the following cases:

A) I take 1 gallon of water from the ocean and dissolve the "X" Bq in it; and dump it back into the ocean.

B) I take 100 gallons of water from the ocean and dissolve the "X" Bq in it; and dump it back into the ocean.

C) I take 10,000 gallons of water from the ocean and dissolve the "X" Bq in it; and dump it back into the ocean.

D) I take 1,000,000 gallons of water from the ocean and dissolve the "X" Bq in it; and dump it back into the ocean.

Now for the anti-nuke IQ Test; which of the above cases is the worst; ( or are they all the same ).

The answer to that question will give one an indication of the IQ of the anti-nuke.

The anti-nukes just LOVE to quote how many gallons of water; but for some reason, they shy away from telling the ACTUAL AMOUNT of radioactivity. I "wonder" why that is? (NOT!!)

PamW

ljm2002

(10,751 posts)
2. The pro-nuke IQ test
Mon Dec 16, 2013, 11:36 AM
Dec 2013

Suppose I have a given amount of radioactive material; "X" Bq of radioactivity and the following cases:

A) I take 1 gallon of water from the ocean and dissolve the "X" Bq in it; and dump it back into the ocean.
Do this every day since the disaster happened (at present, that is 1011 days)
So now we're at X*1011 Bq

B) I take 100 gallons of water from the ocean and dissolve the "X*1011" Bq in it; and dump it back into the ocean.

C) I take 10,000 gallons of water from the ocean and dissolve the "X*1011" Bq in it; and dump it back into the ocean.

D) I take 1,000,000 gallons of water from the ocean and dissolve the "X*1011" Bq in it; and dump it back into the ocean.

Now for the pro-nuke IQ Test; how many Bq will you have dumped into the ocean tomorrow? next week? next month? next year? next decade?

Bonus questions: how many Bq will find their way into biological organisms, which become part of the food chain and are subject to bio-concentration? what are the differences between an assumed even dilution, vs. local concentrations? what happened to the corium in reactors 1, 2 and 3 -- and what effects could those have on the groundwater in Japan?

The answer to these questions will give one an indication of the IQ of the pro-nuke.

PamW

(1,825 posts)
3. ILL-POSED Problem!!!
Mon Dec 16, 2013, 11:44 AM
Dec 2013

ljm2002,

The anti-nuke IQ test is perfectly well-posed and answerable INDEPENDENT of the value of "X".

The above pro-nuke IQ test is ILL POSED. The answer depends on the ACTUAL VALUE of "X", which was NOT specified.

Before parroting a post; please THINK next time, and attempt to answer the question you pose.

There's a reason it is called an IQ Test.

ILL POSED IQ test problem REJECTED

PamW

ljm2002

(10,751 posts)
4. I would have thought you could comprehend...
Mon Dec 16, 2013, 11:58 AM
Dec 2013

...a simple additive problem: your question assumes X Bq but does not address the continuing addition of X Bq each and every day. My re-posing does not question your assertion that the # of gallons of water is immaterial to the amount of radiation contained in it; however, it does bring to the forefront the FACT that there is another X Bq EACH AND EVERY DAY from this ongoing disaster.

And of course, the effects of locally higher radiation concentrations, and the uptake of radioactive particles by organisms, are also highly relevant factors in how this radiation can affect life.

But you go ahead and REJECT the test. That will be recorded as a FAIL, 0 score!

PamW

(1,825 posts)
5. 100% WRONG!! AGAIN!!
Tue Jan 7, 2014, 11:49 AM
Jan 2014

ljm2002,

Evidently you don't understand that "X" is the TOTAL amount of Fukushima radioactivity which is NOT increasing.

The Fukushima nuclear fuel has melted and is no longer held in the proper geometric lattice that it needs to sustain a crititicality.

Therefore Fukishima can no longer make additional radioactive material; the amount of radioactivity there now is the amount that will be there in the future minus the amount that decays.

ljm2002; you are NOT a scientist and therefore have ZERO credentials in teaching / making tests; so any scores "recorded" by you are MEANINGLESS.

I'm a scientist with the credentials to teach at the University level.

PamW

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