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elleng

(131,191 posts)
Sun Feb 23, 2014, 12:41 PM Feb 2014

Federal Wood Burning Rule Prompts Rural Backlash.

Last edited Sun Feb 23, 2014, 03:37 PM - Edit history (1)

A federal proposal to clean up the smoke wafting from wood-burning stoves has sparked a backlash from some rural residents, lawmakers and manufacturers who fear it could close the damper on one of the oldest ways of warming homes on cold winter days.

Proposed regulations from the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency would significantly reduce the amount of particle pollution allowed from the smokestacks of new residential wood-powered heaters.

Wood-burning stoves are a staple in rural homes in many states, a cheap heating source for low-income residents and others wanting to lessen their reliance on gas or electric furnaces. Outdoor models often cost several thousand dollars, but indoor stoves can cost as little as a few hundred dollars and sometimes double as fashionable centerpieces in homes.

Some manufacturers contend the EPA's proposed standards are so stringent that the higher production costs would either force them out of business or raise prices so high that many consumers could no longer afford their products.

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2014/02/23/us/ap-us-wood-stove-regulations.html?hp&_r=0

The point is this: 'Proposed regulations from the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency would significantly reduce the amount of particle pollution allowed from the smokestacks of new residential wood-powered heaters.'

I HOPE people will take the time to understand this.

21 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Federal Wood Burning Rule Prompts Rural Backlash. (Original Post) elleng Feb 2014 OP
One of my best friends heats and cooks with wood. longship Feb 2014 #1
No one has suggested wood burning be outlawed NickB79 Feb 2014 #2
This Champion Jack Feb 2014 #6
They should go after the real culprits, which are Fireplaces. The EPA could form a wrecking team adirondacker Feb 2014 #7
There are better solutions than an expensive wood stove redesign appal_jack Feb 2014 #8
One of my neighbors bought a load of wood earlier this winter Fumesucker Feb 2014 #14
Well, he could buy next years wood now. PotatoChip Feb 2014 #16
Not everyone has storage space for that much wood Fumesucker Feb 2014 #17
Fair point. PotatoChip Feb 2014 #18
Those costco tent things work as a pretty satisfactory woodshed. lumberjack_jeff Feb 2014 #21
That's a bummer. Can be mitigated somewhat though. appal_jack Feb 2014 #19
Nah ... GeorgeGist Feb 2014 #3
So much bullshit. lumberjack_jeff Feb 2014 #4
+1 PotatoChip Feb 2014 #9
I think that people invent words like "biofuel" to make the concept sound newfangled. n/t lumberjack_jeff Feb 2014 #12
I kind of agree Yo_Mama Feb 2014 #20
Can't be having 2naSalit Feb 2014 #5
Um... Lancero Feb 2014 #10
This message was self-deleted by its author PotatoChip Feb 2014 #11
EHRMEGHERD!!!! Tsiyu Feb 2014 #13
This is obnoxious Android3.14 Feb 2014 #15

longship

(40,416 posts)
1. One of my best friends heats and cooks with wood.
Sun Feb 23, 2014, 12:50 PM
Feb 2014

He has an awesome wood stove, a marvel of old tech. He cooks and bakes with it. It's his only stove. His furnace is a high tech wood based boiler with propane backup. This guy has it together. He also otherwise has an extremely low carbon footprint. If wood burning were outlawed, he'd freeze and starve.

NickB79

(19,276 posts)
2. No one has suggested wood burning be outlawed
Sun Feb 23, 2014, 01:02 PM
Feb 2014

What the new federal regulations call for is that NEW stoves sold in the US meet certain particulate matter regulations. Your friend's old stove will never be outlawed, but if he ever decided to replace it he'd just have to buy a more efficient model.

This is just like the "controversy" over federal regulations that shut down sales of old incandescent light bulbs due to inefficiencies. People worry about the increased costs upfront, but the greater efficiency provided means you save money in the long run.

adirondacker

(2,921 posts)
7. They should go after the real culprits, which are Fireplaces. The EPA could form a wrecking team
Mon Feb 24, 2014, 09:24 AM
Feb 2014

to go through the estates along the I-5 and I-95 corridor, along with coastal beachfront properties and either tear em down or fill em with concrete. They could consult with Arnold Schwarzenegger for methods on the chimney tear downs. Think of the jobs that could be created!

I even came up with a catchy slogan; Operation Clean Chimney Sweep!

Since most of these folks use their fireplaces for aesthetic purpose we could have them replaced with these...

 

appal_jack

(3,813 posts)
8. There are better solutions than an expensive wood stove redesign
Mon Feb 24, 2014, 06:00 PM
Feb 2014

I burn wood occasionally in a very primitive, steel fireplace insert inside a masonry chimney. Basically, I'm using 18th century technology, yet I am hardly polluting at all. What's my secret? I use thoroughly dry wood and pay attention to my fire, adjusting the draft and damper accordingly. I burn so cleanly that after five years since the last inspection and sweeping, the chimney guy this year said that if I stuck to these protocols, I wouldn't need a visit from him for another five years. No creosote and hardly any ash up my stack.

Trying to idiot-proof a wood stove to be smokeless even with wet wood and other stupidity is asking all of us to pay for the actions of a dumb minority that shouldn't be using a wood stove in the first place. A good education program via a public agency such as the state Cooperative Extension services would cost less and do more. Plus education about how to properly manage a wood fire will not further alienate rural voters who might already have the impression that Democrats are rural, elitist, nanny-staters who don't even try to understand the difficulties of country life. Banning simple, efficient wood stove designs, on the other hand, certainly will.

From the article:

The National Firewood Association, based in Duluth, Minn., says some of the pollution from wood-burning stoves could be reduced if people would burn only aged wood rather than wood with too much wet sap.


-app

Fumesucker

(45,851 posts)
14. One of my neighbors bought a load of wood earlier this winter
Mon Feb 24, 2014, 07:34 PM
Feb 2014

The seller came out in his truck and unloaded/stacked the wood.. Only a week or so later did my neighbor realize that only the first 10% or so of the wood was actually dry, the bottom of the stack was fresh cut and practically dripping.

What was he to do? Around here wood is a cash deal and it's actually hard to find anyone selling wood at all despite the fact we have an amazing number of trees around.

PotatoChip

(3,186 posts)
16. Well, he could buy next years wood now.
Mon Feb 24, 2014, 07:49 PM
Feb 2014

I've got over 9 cord tree-length for the next 2 winters sitting in my yard right now. Was delivered a couple of weeks ago.

Fumesucker

(45,851 posts)
17. Not everyone has storage space for that much wood
Mon Feb 24, 2014, 07:52 PM
Feb 2014

Or for that matter the upfront money to buy next year's heating wood.

With propane at $6.00 a gallon the demand for wood and the price both have skyrocketed.

 

lumberjack_jeff

(33,224 posts)
21. Those costco tent things work as a pretty satisfactory woodshed.
Wed Feb 26, 2014, 01:06 AM
Feb 2014

$250 for a woodshed that lasts 10 years is a pretty good deal.

 

appal_jack

(3,813 posts)
19. That's a bummer. Can be mitigated somewhat though.
Mon Feb 24, 2014, 09:58 PM
Feb 2014

That's a bummer. Dishonest vendors cause problems no matter what the technology. It can be mitigated somewhat though by bringing an extra few armloads of wet wood to sit near the stove and dry out while some dry wood is burning. Even a few days near the stove can help, but of course it won't be as good as really dry stuff that has cured for a year or more.

Sorry to hear that your friend got the raw end of a deal.

-app

 

lumberjack_jeff

(33,224 posts)
4. So much bullshit.
Sun Feb 23, 2014, 01:08 PM
Feb 2014

My woodstove burns about 4 cords of wood each year to heat a 1900sf house. When we're home it is our sole source of heat. The wood is sustainably collected on our 5 acre property (trees grow fast enough around here that 5 acres is plenty).

The stove is about 85% efficient at extracting the BTU value of the log into usable heat. For the carbon cost of about a gallon of chainsaw mix and another gallon of diesel for the tractor, (new trees grow where the old ones fall, so the wood has no net carbon cost) I heat our house for an entire year.

If these rules pass, I'll have to build my own from sheet steel when this one burns out. I don't have the design expertise to build an 85% efficient stove, so...

Yo_Mama

(8,303 posts)
20. I kind of agree
Wed Feb 26, 2014, 12:24 AM
Feb 2014

The new ones are very efficient already, and if you look at net pollution, it seems to me that the wood burning already is less polluting overall.

If the net effect of a law is more pollution, it cannot be a good thing.

2naSalit

(86,832 posts)
5. Can't be having
Sun Feb 23, 2014, 03:22 PM
Feb 2014

folks NOT PAYING their toll for having heat!! I use wood and have no other options.

I would consider this to be a valid argument IF and ONLY IF the big polluters have already done their part to stop polluting... first. It's just another way to make the poor poorer.

Wish there was a smiley thing showing "the bird" for this one.

Response to 2naSalit (Reply #5)

Tsiyu

(18,186 posts)
13. EHRMEGHERD!!!!
Mon Feb 24, 2014, 07:29 PM
Feb 2014


They're putting seat belts and airbags in new cars!!!!!!!

No one will be able to AFFORD cars anymore!!!!!! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!




















































oh wait.....



 

Android3.14

(5,402 posts)
15. This is obnoxious
Mon Feb 24, 2014, 07:35 PM
Feb 2014

I bought a UL certified wood/oil furnace and, after installation, it set me back about 8 grand. It has saved us from losing our home due to rising heating oil costs.
This type of regulation would make it impossible for families of modest means to reduce their carbon footprint by using wood heat, forcing them to accept oil furnaces because they are cheaper at the outset and then condemning them to an existence depending on foreign energy.
And they say humans are an intelligent species.

I HOPE people take the time to understand this too.

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