Environment & Energy
Related: About this forumJames Lovelock: environmentalism has become a religion
Lovelock is being as contrarian as ever
The 94 year-old scientist, famous for his Gaia hypothesis that Earth is a self-regulating, single organism, also said that he had been too certain about the rate of global warming in his past book, that "its just as silly to be a [climate] denier as it is to be a believer and that fracking and nuclear power should power the UK, not renewable sources such as windfarms.
Speaking to the Guardian for an interview ahead of a landmark UN climate science report on Monday on the impacts of climate change, Lovelock said of the warnings of climate catastrophe in his 2006 book, Revenge of Gaia: "I was a little too certain in that book. You just cant tell whats going to happen."
Lovelock's comments appear to be at odds with dire forecasts from a report by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change on Monday, which leaked versions show will warn that even small temperature rises will bring "abrupt and irreversible changes" to natural systems, including Arctic sea ice and coral reefs.
Talking about the environmental movement, Lovelock says: "Its become a religion, and religions dont worry too much about facts." The retired scientist, who worked at the Medical Research Council, describes himself as an "old-fashioned green."
The government is too frightened to use nuclear, renewables wont work because we dont have enough sun and we cant go on burning coal because it produces so much CO2, so that leaves fracking. It produces only a fraction of the amount of CO2 that coal does, and will make Britain secure in energy for quite a few years. We dont have much choice," he said.
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)Good Lord, the sun puts out tons more energy than we ever use. Even on earth, a relatively tiny percentage of the land surface would generate all of the electric needs for the entire planet. And they're constantly working out designs that make collecting solar energy ever more efficient, even when you can't even see the sun through overcast.
I don't know that Lovelock is keeping up with engineering in the field of solar collection and energy storage. There are amazing changes coming out every year, even if they haven't made it into production yet.
caraher
(6,278 posts)You know, the islands famed for gloomy fog and rain. The Environmental Defense Fund's estimate of what the UK could get for solar is less than half its current electricity production, and I'm aware of no estimates that change the picture substantially.
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)Wave and wind power is just solar at a remove. From that same link, flip down to the 'marine challenge'.
caraher
(6,278 posts)But ordinarily, when people refer to solar they implicitly mean things like PV panels, water heaters and concentrated solar. If you push things too far you're in the realm of calling fossil fuels "stored solar" because ultimately all that chemical energy came from sunlight (again, "solar at a remove" .
Nevertheless, your expanded point, that renewables could supply much of the UK's electricity, does stand, as does Lovelock's narrower point. Another issue is that electricity is only part of the energy consumption picture - the need will be to replace present energy consumption in all forms, including liquid fuels, with renewables and reductions in consumption. It's not enough to simply change over to new sources of electricity... which is probably a big part of Lovelock's pessimistic assessment.
OnlinePoker
(5,721 posts)Today, for instance, wind has sat at about 4% of total generated electricity. There were a couple of times this month when it was down to zero. The vast majority of U.K. power comes from either Coal or Gas.
http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/
hatrack
(59,587 posts)We'll see (record flooding notwithstanding) what comes next.
Speaking of which, here's an article about wine from Scotland:
Thanks to climate change, Christopher Trotter will make history later this year by pairing a Scottish white wine with the local spoots.
The razor clams harvested from the nearby shores of the North Sea will go down nicely with the first bottles from Trotters vineyard north of Edinburgh. The 2014 vintage will be special for Scotland, where Highlanders have distilled whisky and brewed ale for centuries.
Scotland has probably been more of a beer-drinking nation than anything else, said Trotter, a chef and food writer. Wine hasnt been part of the culture, he said, until now.
Trotter might as well pour a splash on the ground in memory of a vanishing world. Climate change, which scientists say is caused by heat-trapping gas accumulating in the atmosphere, is transforming dinner tables and scrambling traditions in the $270 billion global wine industry.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-03-26/raise-a-glass-of-scottish-wine-to-global-climate-changes.html
bananas
(27,509 posts)EDF Energy is an integrated energy company in the United Kingdom, with operations spanning electricity generation and the sale of gas and electricity to homes and businesses throughout the United Kingdom. It employs 13,158 people and handles 5.7 million customer accounts.[1][2]
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EDF Energy Customers (trading as EDF Energy) is wholly owned by the French state-owned EDF SA[3] (Électricité de France) and was formed in 2002 following the acquisition and mergers of SEEBOARD Plc (formerly the South Eastern Electricity Board), London Electricity Plc (formerly the London Electricity Board or LEB), SWEB Energy Plc (formerly the South Western Electricity Board) and two coal-fired power stations and a combined cycle gas turbine (CCGT) power station.
In 2009, EDF Energy took control of the UK nuclear generator, British Energy, buying share capital from the government. This made EDF Energy one of the UK's largest generators,[2] as well as the largest distribution network operator.
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It's also on the website you linked to under "About Us":
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EDF Energy is one of the UKs largest energy companies and its largest producer of low-carbon electricity. A wholly-owned subsidiary of the EDF Group, one of Europe's largest energy groups, we generate around one fifth of the UK's electricity and employ around 15,000 people. We supply electricity and gas to around 5.5 million residential and business customers, making us the biggest supplier of electricity by volume.
The company is organised into the following business units:
Nuclear Generation operates eight nuclear power stations in the UK with a combined capacity of over 9 million kilowatts electricity that is vital to the UK economy.
Nuclear New Build is tasked with the delivery of the new generation of nuclear plants in line with EDFs global programme of producing safe, affordable, reliable, low-carbon electricity in the UK.
Energy Sourcing and Customer Supply runs power stations and wind farms, buys and sells power to meet future generation and customer needs and deals with all our energy customers.
Our history »
EDF Energy as we know it today was born in 2003, but our history actually began years before.
Who owns us »
We are part of EDF Group, one of the three largest energy companies in Europe.
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caraher
(6,278 posts)The numbers do jibe with what I've seen elsewhere, but that was inexcusably careless of me...
gtar100
(4,192 posts)I can do just fine going about my day not knowing what this guy says. Now I know for sure he's not worth listening to.
caraher
(6,278 posts)He's right that solar is not going to cut it, alone, for the UK, unless they're running transmission lines to North Africa
bananas
(27,509 posts)Offshore wind by itself could power the UK many times over.
An estimate of the theoretical maximum potential of the United Kingdom's offshore wind resource in all waters to 700 metres (2,300 ft) depth gives the average power as 2200 GW.[28]
Here's the source they reference:
Two Terawatts average power output: the UK offshore wind resource
Andrew Smith September 30, 2009
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So, all together, that gives approximately 2,200 GWe, or 2.2 TWe.
For context, current UK energy demand (electricity + heat + transport) is about 0.25 TW, and current UK electricity demand is about 0.04 TWe.
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bloom
(11,635 posts)And just because people are passionate about our environment does not mean we/they are ignoring facts.
roody
(10,849 posts)and his brain does not work nearly as well as it did even 15 yrs ago.
ForgoTheConsequence
(4,868 posts)Who cares what this dumb ass has to say about anything?
KT2000
(20,581 posts)human beings are no healthier than their environment.
hunter
(38,316 posts)Environmentalism has many "religious" cults. Nature won't pay attention to any of them.
truebrit71
(20,805 posts)...and anti-solar/wind stance became too much to stomach...What the hell is the point of trying to save the planet from catastrophic heat increases if we do it using the most dangerous and toxic method of power generation known to man?
Glad I bought it as an e-book on Amazon and didn't waste a couple of trees in the process..
Oh, and that whole 'we don't have enough sun' line....*ahem* what about Germany?
hunter
(38,316 posts)Your religion is showing.
No, this is not a pro nuclear post. I hate all the large scale stuff -- dams, fossil fuels, nuclear power, wind and solar "farms," biofuels, tidal power, automobiles, superhighways.
We ought to be tearing crap down, not building more crap. Building more crap, being "productive," having too many kids, that's how we got into this mess.
truebrit71
(20,805 posts)...but if we went on Lovelock's direction and built nothing but nukes and one or two went all Fukushima on us, then all the "non-carbon" energy talk would be out the window because we'd all be glowing in the dark..
GliderGuider
(21,088 posts)Since I believe the whole house of cards that is global techno-industrial civ is at increasing risk of collapse, I think nukes are a terrible idea. And of course fossil fuel is what's killing us to begin with.
Decentralized renewable energy production has one unique quality that I haven't seen discussed much: it scales down much better than hydro, coal or nuclear. So if the population of the USA were to drop back below 100 million later in the century, with economic activity more reminiscent of 1820 than 2020, an energy infrastructure based on solar and wind would be much easier to tailor.
Which of course still leaves the transportation problem and the climate change timeline...