Environment & Energy
Related: About this forumGermany: Super-stealth submarine powered by hydrogen fuel cells
April fool fuel?
Nope
Frederik Pleitgen CNN 2/22/2011
Eckernfoerde, Germany (CNN) -- It is almost totally silent, radiates virtually no heat and is constructed entirely from non-magnetic metals.
Meet the U212A -- an ultra-advanced non-nuclear sub developed by German naval shipyard Howaldtswerke Deutsche Werft, who claim it to be "the peak of German submarine technology."
And few would argue. The super-stealth vessel is the first of its kind to be powered by a revolutionary hydrogen fuel cell that lets it cruise the deep blue without giving off noise or exhaust heat...
...With this latest technology, he added, "the boat is virtually undetectable."
Video: http://www.cnn.com/2011/TECH/innovation/02/22/hybrid.submarine/
Photo credit: Stahlkocher
Propulsion:
1 MTU 16V 396 diesel-engine
9 HDW/Siemens PEM fuel cells, 3040 kW each (U31)
2 HDW/Siemens PEM fuel cells 120 kW (U32, U33, U34)
1 Siemens Permasyn electric motor 1700 kW, driving a single seven-bladed skewback propeller
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_212_submarine
Hydrogen Fuel Cells work. Even under water.
Wasserstoff ?????ό?? hidrógeno водород hidrojen idrogeno hydrogène waterstof
sdfernando
(4,940 posts)Fred Sanders
(23,946 posts)FBaggins
(26,757 posts)I would guess that this is just another nonsensical version of "why do we care if Iran gets a nuclear weapon when 'country X' already has nuclear weapons"... except Germany doesn't (unless you count the U.S. B61s there under NATO agreement)
Fred Sanders
(23,946 posts)Why does Germany need another submarine for NATO?
NickB79
(19,258 posts)The onboard diesel engine runs when at the surface to charge the PEM cells, which then power the electric motor for propulsion while underwater outside of snorkel range.
In the past, this same practice has been used to charge batteries instead of fuel cells. The only real difference here is that the fuel cells give it a somewhat longer endurance underwater. Diesel-electrics have been championed for their incredible silence and stealthiness for the past 30 years, to the point a 1990's-era Chinese diesel-electric snuck up on US ships during a training exercise a few years ago: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-492804/The-uninvited-guest-Chinese-sub-pops-middle-U-S-Navy-exercise-leaving-military-chiefs-red-faced.html
And the rest of the costly defensive screen, which usually includes at least two U.S. submarines, was also apparently unable to detect it.
dumbcat
(2,120 posts)How do the diesels "charge" the PEM cells? The Wiki article makes no mention of this. It talks of the H2 and its oxidizer being stored in special tanks outside the pressure hull. There is no mention of production of H2 or O2 while underway. It seems the H2 and O2 are produced separately on shore and then stored.
NickB79
(19,258 posts)Surface or snorkel, fire up the diesels to run an electric generator to hydrolyze ocean water to H2 and O2, and charge the fuel cells.
Frankly, I'd be shocked if the sub were able to haul enough H2 and O2 to power the PEM for months at a time. Those would be absolutely massive fuel tanks.
When it comes to sheer energy density, it's hard to beat fossil fuels.
dumbcat
(2,120 posts)which is pretty comprehensive, doesn't mention any electrolyzers? It would seem to be a significant feature.
FBaggins
(26,757 posts)... since these subs have been around for more than a decade.
NickB79
(19,258 posts)And it's hardly an indication we should be building more civilian nuclear reactors.
Same goes for hydrogen-powered subs.
hunter
(38,325 posts)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gotland-class_submarine
These use liquid oxygen and diesel fuel, are very quiet, and can stay underwater for weeks.
Western powers went ape-shit crazy when they discovered Iran was exploring this technology.