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kristopher

(29,798 posts)
Wed Mar 7, 2012, 07:50 PM Mar 2012

New nationwide poll shows wariness about nuclear power

New nationwide poll shows wariness about nuclear power
By JUDY FAHYS

Americans haven’t warmed to nuclear energy in the year since the Fukushima meltdowns, according to a new survey.

The poll, done by ORC International for the nonprofit, nonpartisan Civil Society Institute (CSI), found that 57 percent support nuclear power less than they did before the March 11 earthquake and tsunami that resulted in the crisis at the Japanese nuclear complex.

In addition, 77 percent said they back “using clean renewable energy resources — such as wind and solar — and increased energy efficiency as an alternative to more nuclear power in the United States.” And an equal percentage said they wanted to see federal loan guarantees shifted from nuclear to wind and solar power.

ORC surveyed 1,032 Americans February 23-26. It compared the results with similar polls a year ago and added a question about public reactions to nuclear incidents in the United States over the past year. Its findings run counter to similar polls that have been published by the nuclear industry.

...

“Nuclear power remains expensive, dangerous and too radioactive for Wall Street,” he said. “This survey shows why the industry has no future unless the U.S. government props it up and forces the public to bear the risks.”

...


http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/politics/53667311-90/americans-energy-industry-nuclear.html.csp


From the Civil Society Institute Press release:
• Nearly six in 10 Americans (57 percent) are less supportive of expanding nuclear power in the United States than they were before the Japanese reactor crisis, a nearly identical finding to the 58 percent who responded the same way when asked the same question one year ago. This contrasts sharply with pre-Fukushima surveys by Gallup and other organizations showing a 60 percent support level for nuclear power.
• More than three out of four Americans (77 percent) say they are now more supportive than they were a year ago "to using clean renewable energy resources - such as wind and solar - and increased energy efficiency as an alternative to more nuclear power in the United States." This finding edged up from the 2011 survey level of 76 percent.
• More than three out of four Americans (77 percent) would support "a shift of federal loan-guarantee support for energy away from nuclear reactors" in favor of wind and solar power. This level of support was up from the 74 percent finding in the 2011 survey.
• In response to a new question in the 2012 survey, more than six in 10 Americans (61 percent) said they were less supportive of nuclear power as a result of reports in the U.S. during 2011 and so far in 2012 of nuclear reactors that had to be shut down due such factors as natural disasters, equipment failure and radioactive leaks.
....


http://www.civilsocietyinstitute.org/media/030712release.cfm



Survey can be downloaded with this link:
http://www.civilsocietyinstitute.org/media/pdfs/030712%20CSI%20Fukushima%20Anniversary%20Survey%20Rpt%20FINAL2.pdf
22 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
New nationwide poll shows wariness about nuclear power (Original Post) kristopher Mar 2012 OP
Phase them out madokie Mar 2012 #1
Germany is pioneering the way. kristopher Mar 2012 #22
Now do it (the survey) again with ALL the facts and statistics. TheMadMonk Mar 2012 #2
That is false. it is a widespread deliberate lie from a nuclear blogger. kristopher Mar 2012 #3
Action on Iowa nuclear power proposal delayed; outcome in doubt kristopher Mar 2012 #4
"Iowa nuclear power plan okayed; Senate passage expected" FBaggins Mar 2012 #5
Consevatives vs progressives kristopher Mar 2012 #6
If only labeling a thing made it true... but it doesn't. FBaggins Mar 2012 #7
Region and age show divides over attitudes on nuclear power kristopher Mar 2012 #8
You still working that angle, kris? Dead_Parrot Mar 2012 #9
Reality is what it is - "Heritage Foundation Touts Nukes as Vital to American Way of Life" kristopher Mar 2012 #10
And you are the one to tell us what reality is, right? nt Dead_Parrot Mar 2012 #11
You choose the company you keep... kristopher Mar 2012 #12
To which one might say that you're a friend of XemaSab Mar 2012 #15
You judge people by thier company? Dead_Parrot Mar 2012 #16
Was the post too complicated for you? FBaggins Mar 2012 #13
Let's reframe for clarity kristopher Mar 2012 #14
Bookmarking for honest statement of clarity Nihil Mar 2012 #17
A Conservative's perspective kristopher Mar 2012 #18
Seems like "reframe" is code for "spin". FBaggins Mar 2012 #19
Drill baby drill is.... kristopher Mar 2012 #20
Mostly conservative. FBaggins Mar 2012 #21
 

TheMadMonk

(6,187 posts)
2. Now do it (the survey) again with ALL the facts and statistics.
Wed Mar 7, 2012, 10:47 PM
Mar 2012

More people have died (per GW of generation capacity) installing solar power, OR building dams, OR erecting wind turbines than in the ENTIRE LIFECYCLE of nuclear power to date.

Point the finger due Coal and as more people die (just as the price of doing business) every five years than were killed (DELIBERATELY) by both bombs in Japan.

Statistically, nuclear power is safer than ANY other form of energy generation/amplification all the way back to the first domesticated beast of burden.

kristopher

(29,798 posts)
3. That is false. it is a widespread deliberate lie from a nuclear blogger.
Thu Mar 8, 2012, 08:42 AM
Mar 2012

Last edited Thu Mar 8, 2012, 09:34 AM - Edit history (1)

There is a network of "nuclear bloggers" that work with and are coordinated by the nuclear industry. There is a point person at the nuclear industry lobbying group the "Nuclear Energy Institute:" that is responsible for social media outreach and at nuclear industry conventions the bloggers are invited to attend hosted workshops (promoted and planned by employees of US Dept of Energy Labs) designed to spread the nuclear gospel.

One of those bloggers is "the next big future" where a particularly repugnant and persistent lie has been concocted and has spread in a fashion where it is accepted as a "truth" all around the internet. It purports to be a complete comparison of the rates of death associated with production by the various types of power generation. Here is the website and the chart that represents the authors handicraft:

http://nextbigfuture.com/2008/03/deaths-per-twh-for-all-energy-sources.html

Blogger's table of falsified data

Deaths per TWh for all energy sources: Rooftop solar power is actually more dangerous than Chernobyl

Coal – USA............................................15
Oil.......................................................36 (36% of world energy)
Natural Gas............................................4 (21% of world energy)
Biofuel/Biomass.....................................12
Peat.....................................................12
Solar (rooftop).......................................0.44 (less than 0.1% of world energy)
Wind.....................................................0.15 (less than 1% of world energy)
Hydro....................................................0.10 (europe death rate, 2.2% of world energy)
Hydro - world including Banqiao ............1.4 (about 2500 TWh/yr and 171,000 Banqiao dead)
Nuclear................................................... 0.04 (5.9% of world energy)



Solar: the stats are simply fabrications; numbers made up out of whole cloth by the author of the blog.

Wind: Cumulative deaths per TWh for wind isn't 0.15/TWh. Using the same source cited by the NBF blogger it is clearly 0.07/TWh and has been for several years. The author at nextbigfuture had to go back to the year 2000 to get the 0.15 number. That is simply lying.

Readers can download the spreadsheet themselves: http://wind-works.org/articles/DeathsDatabase.xls
The per TWh tab is labeled "deaths by year". It is also worth reading the "deathsdatabase" tab to see that the nature of the deaths includes everything that could possibly be related.

Similar gimmicks are used to under-report the deaths related to nuclear power. The author's source is available at his site where it is the third graphic of 4; just click any of them for a readable close up:
http://nextbigfuture.com/2008/03/deaths-per-twh-for-all-energy-sources.html

Note that the 0.04 quoted for nuclear is strictly "occupational fatalities" even though the more comprehensive number of "public fatalities", right next to it, is 0.65. The author uses a "piublic fatalities" number for wind - that is what Gipe tracks. He also goes to extra effort to use it for coal (see below). So what possible logic can justify choosing the far lower "occupational fatalities" only for nuclear except the deliberate intent to present fraudulent data? That is simply lying.

Also, if you go to the Externe analysis and read it you'll find that Chernobyl is excluded from the total. To make up for that the author takes the most conservative estimate available - 50 deaths - and notes it as an aside. See study below for most recent independent and authoritative analysis of the health consequences to date from Chernobyl.

The source nextbigfuture post also makes available an estimate (from Externe E which he used for nuclear) for the coal fuel chain - the range is 0.04-0.23. In order to push that up the author goes to the trouble of finding and incorporating the deaths from particulate pollution associated with coal. It is a commendable effort but it begs the question of either why such diligence wasn't applied across the board or why the direct comparison number from Externe, which was considered accurate for nuclear wasn't used coal? Obviously it is that both are rated at the low end as 0.04 deaths per TWh and that simply wasn't the impression the author was striving to communicate on behalf of the nuclear industry.

In short, this blog entry , and its continued use by nuclear industry proponents that know it is a deliberately crafted lie, is one of the reasons I turned against nuclear power in recent years. If you can't trust them on matters so easy to check, how in the hell can you trust them to promote the public welfare when they are shielded by the secrecy shrouding the technology itself?


Annals of the New York Academy of Sciences
Volume 1181 Issue Chernobyl
Consequences of the Catastrophe for People and the Environment, Pages 31 - 220

Chapter II. Consequences of the Chernobyl Catastrophe for Public Health


Alexey B. Nesterenko a , Vassily B. Nesterenko a ,† and Alexey V. Yablokov b
a Institute of Radiation Safety (BELRAD), Minsk, Belarus b Russian Academy of Sciences, Moscow, Russia
Address for correspondence: Alexey V. Yablokov, Russian Academy of Sciences, Leninsky Prospect 33, Office 319, 119071 Moscow, Russia. Voice: +7-495-952-80-19; fax: +7-495-952-80-19. Yablokov@ecopolicy.ru
†Deceased


ABSTRACT

Problems complicating a full assessment of the effects from Chernobyl included official secrecy and falsification of medical records by the USSR for the first 3.5 years after the catastrophe and the lack of reliable medical statistics in Ukraine, Belarus, and Russia. Official data concerning the thousands of cleanup workers (Chernobyl liquidators) who worked to control the emissions are especially difficult to reconstruct. Using criteria demanded by the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA), the World Health Organization (WHO), and the United Nations Scientific Committee on the Effects of Atomic Radiation (UNSCEAR) resulted in marked underestimates of the number of fatalities and the extent and degree of sickness among those exposed to radioactive fallout from Chernobyl. Data on exposures were absent or grossly inadequate, while mounting indications of adverse effects became more and more apparent. Using objective information collected by scientists in the affected areas—comparisons of morbidity and mortality in territories characterized by identical physiography, demography, and economy, which differed only in the levels and spectra of radioactive contamination—revealed significant abnormalities associated with irradiation, unrelated to age or sex (e.g., stable chromosomal aberrations), as well as other genetic and nongenetic pathologies.

<snip>

This section describes the spectrum and the scale of the nonmalignant diseases that have been found among exposed populations. Adverse effects as a result of Chernobyl irradiation have been found in every group that has been studied. Brain damage has been found in individuals directly exposed—liquidators and those living in the contaminated territories, as well as in their offspring. Premature cataracts; tooth and mouth abnormalities; and blood, lymphatic, heart, lung, gastrointestinal, urologic, bone, and skin diseases afflict and impair people, young and old alike. Endocrine dysfunction, particularly thyroid disease, is far more common than might be expected, with some 1,000 cases of thyroid dysfunction for every case of thyroid cancer, a marked increase after the catastrophe. There are genetic damage and birth defects especially in children of liquidators and in children born in areas with high levels of radioisotope contamination. Immunological abnormalities and increases in viral, bacterial, and parasitic diseases are rife among individuals in the heavily contaminated areas. For more than 20 years, overall morbidity has remained high in those exposed to the irradiation released by Chernobyl. One cannot give credence to the explanation that these numbers are due solely to socioeconomic factors. The negative health consequences of the catastrophe are amply documented in this chapter and concern millions of people.

The most recent forecast by international agencies predicted there would be between 9,000 and 28,000 fatal cancers between 1986 and 2056, obviously underestimating the risk factors and the collective doses. On the basis of I-131 and Cs-137 radioisotope doses to which populations were exposed and a comparison of cancer mortality in the heavily and the less contaminated territories and pre- and post-Chernobyl cancer levels, a more realistic figure is 212,000 to 245,000 deaths in Europe and 19,000 in the rest of the world. High levels of Te-132, Ru-103, Ru-106, and Cs-134 persisted months after the Chernobyl catastrophe and the continuing radiation from Cs-137, Sr-90, Pu, and Am will generate new neoplasms for hundreds of years.

A detailed study reveals that 3.8–4.0% of all deaths in the contaminated territories of Ukraine and Russia from 1990 to 2004 were caused by the Chernobyl catastrophe. The lack of evidence of increased mortality in other affected countries is not proof of the absence of effects from the radioactive fallout. Since 1990, mortality among liquidators has exceeded the mortality rate in corresponding population groups. From 112,000 to 125,000 liquidators died before 2005—that is, some 15% of the 830,000 members of the Chernobyl cleanup teams. The calculations suggest that the Chernobyl catastrophe has already killed several hundred thousand human beings in a population of several hundred million that was unfortunate enough to live in territories affected by the fallout. The number of Chernobyl victims will continue to grow over many future generations...

kristopher

(29,798 posts)
4. Action on Iowa nuclear power proposal delayed; outcome in doubt
Fri Mar 9, 2012, 03:23 PM
Mar 2012
Action on Iowa nuclear power proposal delayed; outcome in doubt

By James Q. Lynch, Gazette Des Moines Bureau
Posted: Thursday, March 8, 2012 10:00 pm


DES MOINES — Action on controversial nuclear power legislation was cancelled Thursday due to the absence of a Senate Commerce Committee member, but opponents question whether there are enough votes to move the plan to the full Senate ahead of a March 16 deadline.

The Senate Commerce Committee meeting was cancelled because Sen. Tom Rielly, D-Oskaloosa, who, according to Chairman Matt McCoy, D-Des Moines, would provide the eighth vote for House File 561 in the 15-member committee, had another commitment.

HF 561, which was approved by the House last year, would create a regulatory framework for MidAmerican to build a nuclear power plant with ratepayers assuming all or some of the cost before construction began.

Opponents argue that shifts the risk associated with building a nuclear power plant from investors to ratepayers....


http://globegazette.com/news/iowa/action-on-iowa-nuclear-power-proposal-delayed-outcome-in-doubt/article_02a71664-69a3-11e1-8b9a-0019bb2963f4.html

kristopher

(29,798 posts)
6. Consevatives vs progressives
Wed Mar 14, 2012, 06:06 PM
Mar 2012

Two Democrats and six Republicans voted for the bill, which if approved will go back to the House where it was approved last year. Six Democrats and a Republican opposed the bill.

FBaggins

(26,775 posts)
7. If only labeling a thing made it true... but it doesn't.
Wed Mar 14, 2012, 06:28 PM
Mar 2012

I'm sure the first openly-gay representative in Iowa is a conservative



This will likely also come as a surprise to the state's conservative rating group (Iowa Family Policy Center) which gives him a "position on conservative issues" raing of... wait for it... zero (as does the Iowa National Federation of Independent Business). While the AFL-CIO (that conservative bastion) gives him a 100 and the Sierra Club gave him an 83.

On edit - The other Democrat is Tom Rielly with a Sierra Club rating of 85, and IFL rating of 89 and an IFPC conservative rating of 17

kristopher

(29,798 posts)
8. Region and age show divides over attitudes on nuclear power
Thu Mar 15, 2012, 12:09 AM
Mar 2012
One Year Post Fukushima, Americans Are Divided About the Risks of Nuclear Power
Region and age show divides over attitudes on nuclear power


NEW YORK, March 14, 2012 /PRNewswire via COMTEX/ -- One year post-Fukushima and the nuclear disaster in Japan, American attitudes about nuclear energy have become polarized. The most recent results show a shift towards believing the risks outweigh the benefits, and now slightly more Americans believe the risks of nuclear energy outweigh the benefits (41% to 40%). In 2009 and 2011, the benefits of nuclear power outweighed the risks (44% to 34% in 2009 and 42% to 37% in 2011). Harris Poll research in 2011 was conducted before the disaster.

...

This research points to some very distinct geographic differences among Americans. Regional differences may be a reflection of familiarity. The South has the greatest concentration of nuclear power plants (almost twice as many as the East) and the highest percentage of adults who believe the benefits outweigh the risks (43%, compared to 33% in the East and 41% in the Midwest and West).

There is also a clear age divide as Baby Boomers (ages 48-66) and Matures (67 and older) are more likely to say benefits of nuclear power outweigh the risks than both Echo Boomers (ages 18-35) and Gen Xers (ages 36-47) are. Party preference is indicative of attitudes about nuclear power as well. Republicans are the most likely to believe the benefits outweigh the risks (51%) and Independents are more likely than Democrats to say the benefits outweigh the risks (43% among Independents and only 32% among Democrats). Democrats seem to be a large driver of the sentiment that risks outweigh benefits for nuclear....


http://www.marketwatch.com/story/one-year-post-fukushima-americans-are-divided-about-the-risks-of-nuclear-power-2012-03-14

...The South (that bastion of progressive thinking -k) has the greatest concentration of nuclear power plants (almost twice as many as the East)

South has....the highest percentage of adults who believe the benefits outweigh the risks

age divide as Baby Boomers (ages 48-66) and Matures (67 and older) are more likely to say benefits of nuclear power outweigh the risks than both (the oh-so-conservative -k) Echo Boomers (ages 18-35) and Gen Xers (ages 36-47) are.

Party preference is indicative of attitudes about nuclear power as well.

believe the benefits outweigh the risks
Republicans 51%
Independents 43%
Democrats 32%

Democrats seem to be a large driver of the sentiment that risks outweigh benefits for nuclear.

What percent of Democrats are Blue Dog, do you suppose?

kristopher

(29,798 posts)
10. Reality is what it is - "Heritage Foundation Touts Nukes as Vital to American Way of Life"
Thu Mar 15, 2012, 12:33 AM
Mar 2012
Heritage Foundation Touts Nukes as Vital to American Way of Life
By Press Action

...In one of the industry’s pro-nuclear efforts, the right-wing Heritage Foundation has released a new documentary, “Powering America,” that touts nuclear power as a viable energy source for the 21st century.

In a slick trailer for the documentary film, one of the people interviewed says the public should not fear nuclear power. “Radiation simply is energy in motion. That’s from cosmic rays. That’s from radon that comes out of the ground. That’s from the food you eat,” he says. “The issue is not to be afraid of radiation. The issue is to understand it and to respect it just like any other energy source.”

The talking head correctly notes that almost all rocks in the ground contain natural radioactive compounds. These compounds emit alpha and beta radiation. But the talking head fails to note that most of this radiation gets absorbed by the rocks themselves and never makes it into the air.

Also, naturally radioactive compounds are found in the air, soil and water. So, yes, the food we eat is slightly radioactive. Our bodies are made from the food we eat so we are also a little bit radioactive.

But the ...



http://www.pressaction.com/news/weblog/full_article/heritagenukes03082012/

Dead_Parrot

(14,478 posts)
11. And you are the one to tell us what reality is, right? nt
Thu Mar 15, 2012, 12:46 AM
Mar 2012

I seem to recall you saying that, so it must be true.

kristopher

(29,798 posts)
12. You choose the company you keep...
Thu Mar 15, 2012, 01:23 AM
Mar 2012

...and the positions you ally yourself with.

Don't blame me for your choices.

XemaSab

(60,212 posts)
15. To which one might say that you're a friend of
Thu Mar 15, 2012, 04:13 PM
Mar 2012

the Earth Liberation Front and the Unabomber.

Torch any SUV's lately? Blow up any computer science professors?

You choose the company you keep, Kris.

FBaggins

(26,775 posts)
13. Was the post too complicated for you?
Thu Mar 15, 2012, 12:59 PM
Mar 2012

It was laid out fairly simply. You falsely accused (as is your M.O.) other democrats of being republicans/conservatives. Doubling down on the accusation doesn't make it any more rational.

The individuals you accused of being conservatives simply aren't. Nor is the President or Sec Energy here in the US, nor the current or former lib dem sec Energy in the UK.

Democrats (in general) are less likely to support nuclear power than Republicans. That's entirely different from your false claim that if someone does support nuclear power, they are necessarily conservatives.

kristopher

(29,798 posts)
14. Let's reframe for clarity
Thu Mar 15, 2012, 03:47 PM
Mar 2012

If someone endorses expanded use of fossil fuels, are they a "progressive" or a "conservative" on that issue?

 

Nihil

(13,508 posts)
17. Bookmarking for honest statement of clarity
Fri Mar 16, 2012, 05:10 AM
Mar 2012

> Let's reframe for clarity
> If someone endorses expanded use of fossil fuels, are they a "progressive"
> or a "conservative" on that issue?

Kristopher's confession that he is a "conservative" due to his unerring support
for the expanded use of (one particular) fossil fuel.

Thank you for your honesty (at last).

kristopher

(29,798 posts)
18. A Conservative's perspective
Fri Mar 16, 2012, 05:34 AM
Mar 2012
Energy Poverty's Strange Bedfellows
Steven F. Hayward | Washington Examiner February 15, 2011

It is no secret that the environmental movement is trying to do to coal what it did 35 years ago to nuclear power -- kill it off entirely in the name of saving the planet. The surprise is that fossil fuel energy producers and some Republican politicians seem intent on helping them. Not content to let the marketplace guide decisions about what fuel sources our electric utilities should use, some natural gas interests are aligning with environmentalists to press for "incentives," regulations and mandates for fuelswitching from coal to natural gas.

It is a classic case of what economist Bruce Yandle calls a "bootleggers and Baptists" coalition. In dry counties in the Bible Belt, Yandle explains, bootleggers who depend on their wares remaining illegal to make a profit would support the Baptist politicians who voted to keep alcohol illegal.

Natural gas interests are likely to find that in the fullness of time they will become the next target of environmentalist opposition once coal is interred next to nuclear power.

In the case of energy, natural gas interests are happily fulfilling the bootlegger role to the environmental fundamentalists who demand low-carbon moral purity from our energy supply.....


No link since the source is a conservative website.

You'll notice Hayward endorses both coal and nuclear while warning of the intent behind environmental acceptance of natural gas.

What I was actually referring to in my post above, however, was a more generalized endorsement of the expanded use of fossil fuels - does Baggins think of a person wanting more coal and petroleum use "a conservative" or not?

FBaggins

(26,775 posts)
19. Seems like "reframe" is code for "spin".
Fri Mar 16, 2012, 01:14 PM
Mar 2012
If someone endorses expanded use of fossil fuels, are they a "progressive" or a "conservative" on that issue?

Neither. I'd say "dense" is more accurate. The majority on both ends of the spectrum want to reduce dependence on fossil fuels... they just have different theories on how important it is and how we should go about it.

This from a poll during by the League of Conservation Voters in the runnup to the last Presidential election:

•87 percent of likely Democratic primary voters and 80 percent of likely Republican primary voters believe that the state and federal government should take steps to reduce fossil fuels, such as oil and coal that are used by cars, factories, and power plants.


Note that this isn't just 80% of republicans... it's 80% of South Carolina republicans.

OTOH, I suspect that you don't really mean politically progressive/conservative in your question. By "progressive" you probably mean "forward thinking" as in classical liberalism. By that standard of course the answer is clearly that a person who endorses expanded use of fossil fuels cannot be seen as progressive.

Of course, applying that back to the original point begs the question , now doesn't it?

FBaggins

(26,775 posts)
21. Mostly conservative.
Fri Mar 16, 2012, 01:55 PM
Mar 2012

Of course that isn't at all the same thing as your last example - and bears not at all on the nuclear power conversation.

You keep dodging the simple fact. Support for nuclear power is not the majority progressive opinion (in the US), but there are lots of progressives who hold it. You can't falsely label them as "conservative" or "republican" because you don't agree with their position. It's dishonest and serves only to highlight an insecurity with your own position.

You called two specific democrats "conservative" because of this specific vote. You were wrong and owe them an apology. Given your inability to do so in this forum (unapologetically labeling anyone favoring nuclear power as "right wing" "limbaugh" etc)... forgive me if I don't hold my breath.

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