Foreign Affairs
Related: About this forumIslamic State is a cult that cannot be bombed out of existence
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/middle-east/islamic-state-is-a-cult-that-cannot-be-bombed-out-of-existence-1.1969151?page=1Re-education, with the object of depriving the cult of its spiritual force, is the key to countering the militia .
Islamic State is a cult that cannot be bombed out of existence
Michael Jansen
10.20.2014
~snip~
In one of his most oft-quoted maxims, Napoleon stated: In war the spiritual is to the material as three to one. The loss of Kobani would also be a major spiritual or moral defeat the US cannot afford in its faltering and one-dimensional bombing campaign against Islamic State.
More than military prowess, Islamic State relies on spiritual clout with adherents, admirers and, even, antagonists, for millions of Muslims living in failing states long for the purity and security of an Islamic state, even the version imposed by the brutal and narrow militia.
Islamic State is not just one of the host of insurgent groups fighting the Syrian and Iraqi governments. It is not a network, like al-Qaeda, not a movement, not an organisation. Islamic State is a cult which relies on the spiritual dimension to fire its fighters.
It is the worlds most well-organised and heavily armed cult, making it far more formidable than the entire range of militias involved in the struggle for Syria and Iraq.
loudsue
(14,087 posts)It's the military industrial complex's dream.
hollysmom
(5,946 posts)you win them over by giving them something to lose.
Denying people ways to survive only makes them more determined to destroy you,Giving then things that can be taken away makes them more compliant
SmittynMo
(3,544 posts)So we need to pack our asses up in the middle east and other parts of the world and come home. Take that money and build a stronger defense, and take care of our own people. It's quite simple.
hollysmom
(5,946 posts)I am saying you don't bomb people back to the stone age, you give them fresh water, a safe place to live a job and something to work toward. We are pretty good at giving our jobs away, but that is not what I mean. Give people something they don't want to lose, then they would less likely fight - of course, the manipulation of right wing religions and their stupid strict rules don't help and he lies people using brain washing techniques here don't help,. People in Fear just want to hurt others, doesn't really matter who, 1984 took a whille but it is here, in full force
i.e. constant bombing of Gaza by Israel will never get them peace until they people have a good enough life, they don't want to have war. Bombing just makes more martyrs and resentment.
ETA for clarification
The US should have never gotten involved in Iraq, As evil as Sadaam was, most people had pretty good lives, - if we want back in, it should be to provide electricity and water back to the cities as they had before. Now it has to be the currently safe cities and work backwards. We need to distribute food, like ISIS has taken to doing. You have to be associated with good things, not bad, ISIS has to be associated with more bad things, but they used to come in bearing gifts. Every one we tortured made another enemy, not friend. SO much was done that made things worse than better. so may needlessly killed making relatives hate us.
PeoViejo
(2,178 posts)that perpetuates itself by looting resources from its captives. It is well organized and supervised.
DetlefK
(16,423 posts)"Hey, remember when we almost succeeded in creating a second caliphate and reuniting the Umma? And then the West destroyed it."
"Hey, remember when we almost succeeded in creating a second caliphate and reuniting the Umma? And then those heretics who claim to be muslims destroyed it."
Muslim extremists basically want to return to those times when the islamic community was the politically most powerful and scientifically most advanced faction from Europe to India. Of course this achievement was attributed to having the bestest religion in the world.
Around 1500, 1600, an islamic cult rose to power that destroyed the scientific community of the Islam for good.
And then after WWI the Osman Empire went belly-up and the Middle-East was carved up to the desires of colonial powers. Suddenly having the bestest religion in the world was no longer synonymous with being influential and wealthy.
Attempting to regain their pride, they chose two different ways: Nationalism turned out to be a failure because it resulted in dictatorships. Religion turned out to be problematic, leading to sectarian warfare, but that's only a problem for those on the wrong side.
bemildred
(90,061 posts)It is one of a long line so such movements bombed into existence too, and not just by the USA either. We are the greatest modern exponent of bombing; but it is very popular everywhere among desperate, clueless politicians like Panetta.