Israel/Palestine
Related: About this forumIsrael among world's least religious countries
In a WIN/Gallup International survey, 65% of Israelis say they are not religious. Worldwide, 63% say they are religious.
Israel is one of the world's least religious countries. Almost two-thirds of Israelis describe themselves as either not religious or convinced atheists, according to a WIN (Worldwide Independent Network of Market Research)-Gallup International Survey carried out at the end of 2014.
In the survey, carried out among a total of 63,898 persons in 65 countries, respondents were asked, Irrespective of whether you attend a place of worship or not would you say you are: a. a religious person, b. not a religious person, c. a convinced atheist, d. do not know/no response.
In Israel, 57% of those surveyed said they were "not a religious person"; 8% said they were "a convinced atheist"; 30% said they were "a religious person"; and 5% said they did not know or gave no response. These figures a total of 65% not religious or convinced atheists make Israel the eighth least religious country in the world.
http://www.globes.co.il/en/article-israel-among-worlds-least-religious-countries-1001029998
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)e.g. lack of civil marriage, gives the orthodox control over the conversion process, the ultra-orthodox are allowed to mooch off everyone else, forbids women from offending the fundyclowns at the western wall, etc.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Just marriages which are left up to each individual religious rules (Jewish, Muslim, Christian, etc).
The government is secular. The legal code is a secular one.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Not to mention theocratic garbage like this:
The women, members of Women of the Wall, were arrested during morning prayers, which included special prayers for the new Hebrew month of Elul.
http://www.haaretz.com/news/national/israel-police-arrests-women-for-wearing-prayer-shawls-at-western-wall-1.459256
Mosby
(16,311 posts)Are they also fundyclowns?
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Women actually get arrested by the Israeli government if they defy the ultra-orthodox Taliban fundyclowns--who have the power of the state behind their primitive, male supremacist edicts-- by wearing prayer shawls there.
That doesn't happen in places that aren't theocracies.
Mosby
(16,311 posts)Are they fundyclowns?
Muslim women are not allowed to pray in mosques with men, they are supposed to pray at home.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)If they out women in jail for disobeying religious authorities then yes they are theocratic fundyclowns.
That's the way Saudi Arabia rolls.
Mosby
(16,311 posts)They are separated and encouraged to pray at home.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)in public places?
They certainly don't do that in the modern democracies of the world.
Little Tich
(6,171 posts)Mosby
(16,311 posts)And I didn't see any women praying with the men, they are restricted to "special" sections.
Eta apparently muslim women are "encouraged" to not go outside much less into a mosque.
http://www.central-mosque.com/fiqh/wompraymosq.htm
Little Tich
(6,171 posts)to stay away from the Mosque. It seems you are choosing to listen to the more orthodox versions of Islam. You can probably get the same message about the proper place for women if you ask a Rabbi from Mea Shearim in Jerusalem.
The point I'm trying to make is that you can get different versions of what goes depending on whom you ask.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Who are some of the leaders of that movement?
Little Tich
(6,171 posts)Source: Wikipedia
(from subheading Reform):
The reform movements of Islam, like Reform Judaism, are movements within their parent religion, rather than an attempt at schism. They seek to adapt a traditional religion to more liberal, human-rights oriented values, like Reform Judaism does with Judaism.
Reform Muslims, like their more orthodox peers, believe in the basic tenets of Islam, such as the Six Elements of Belief and the Five Pillars of Islam. They consider their views to be fully compatible with the teachings of Islam, though many of the scholars of traditional Islam disagree. Their main differences with more conservative Islamic opinion are two, the first is, in differences of interpretation of how to apply the core Islamic values to modern life, the second includes a more reactionary dialectic which criticizes traditional narratives or even rejects them, hence, denying any obligation to follow them while also allowing greater freedoms in interpreting Qur'an regardless of the hadith.
Read more: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberal_Muslim_movements
oberliner
(58,724 posts)There are two citations given for the info in that paragraph and both of them go to broken pages ("account has been suspended" and "item not found" .
Do you have any actual sources? A book maybe? Or a website home for an organization for Reform Islam?
For example, with Reform Judaism there are sources like:
http://www.reformjudaism.org
http://www.reformjudaismmag.org
That sort of thing.
(The Wikipedia paragraph with the broken links mentions Reform Judaism a few times which is why I use that example as well).
Little Tich
(6,171 posts)The concepts that are mentioned in the article ought to give enough hints about what to look for. I'm not that interested in that particular subject. Muslims come in all shapes and colors.
What do you think about the OP? Is Israel really the 8th most secular country in the world?
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Google and Wikipedia can't hold a candle to a knowledgable person actually recommending a book or a website.
I'd love for anyone else who can point me in the right direction to chime in if they can.
Looking more closely at the Wikipedia entry, it looks like someone just added that paragraph comparing it to Reform Judaism off the top of their head because they thought the two seemed similar.
The reliability of Wikipedia as a source in certain areas is very poor.
It's pretty sad that people use it as a "go to" source on topics when much of the material is unsourced or worse.
"The Google" is an equally lazy means of trying to get serious information on a topic.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Only Muslims are allowed to pray there.
You obviously don't know what a theocracy is.
Maybe pay a visit to Saudi Arabia?
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Why do women need a rabbi's permission to get divorced from their husband if he doesn't consent?
Mosby
(16,311 posts)and the courts have stated that they can wear tallesim, tfillin and read from the torah.
Only the Haredim recognize the religious courts, so your question is a red herring.
Question, is Canada a Christian theocracy?
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/whole-foods-charged-by-police-for-opening-on-good-friday-1.3040538
Little Tich
(6,171 posts)isnt necessarily a religious one. Perhaps, in the future, we will see less people like Naftali Bennett in the Knesset.