this person is named David

their own humanity is quite powerful. This OP may have prompted the other 4 OP's posted
with the attempt to legitimize the occupation which only validates this one many times over, I feel.

I'm not sure if they get that or not..maybe.

Orange or SodaStream, academic or artistic boycott, the penalties will grow worse the longer Israel persists in settling, exploiting and stealing Palestinian land.

By Gideon Levy 02:27 07.06.15

What are you defending? What are you fighting for? Over what are Israelis entrenching themselves now, with the assaults of the nationalist politicians and the populist media fulminating against the world. Why are they patriotically covering up the orange flags of Orange with the blue-and-white national flag? Has anybody asked why? Why is the boycott starting to gnaw at Israel now, and is this all worth it?

As usual, there are questions that are not even asked. Soul-searching, after all, is a clear sign of weakness. And so an explanation has been invented that absolves us of responsibility: The boycott fell out of the sky, an unavoidable force majeure of Israel hatred, and the only way to fight it is to fight right back at them. Israel always has an abundance of fitting (and sometimes violent) Zionist responses, but it’s always about the outcome, never about the reasons. That’s how was with terror, that’s how it was with the position of the world that Zionist Union chairman MK Isaac Herzog, of all Israeli ultranationalists, rushed to label with the ridiculous name “terror of a new kind” (referring to the statements by Orange SA CEO Stephane Richard). Never give in. That’s fine, but why? We are fighting the boycott, but why did it break out?

Israel is now defending the preservation of the status quo. It is fighting against the whole world to preserve its advanced school of brutality and cruelty, in which it is educating generations of young people to act brutishly toward human beings, old people and children, to tyrannize them, to bark at them, to crush and humiliate them, only because they are Palestinians.

Israel is defending the continuation of apartheid in the occupied territories, in which two peoples live, one of them without any rights. It is defending its entire system of justification for this — a combination of Bible stories, messianism and victimhood, accompanied by lies. It is defending “united Jerusalem,” which is nothing but a territorial monster where separation also exists. It is fighting for its right to destroy the Gaza Strip for as long as it cares to do so, to maintain it as a ghetto and to be the warden of the biggest prison in the world.

The Israelis are fighting for their right to persist in settling, exploiting and stealing land; to continue breaking international law that prohibits settlement, to continue to thumb its nose at the whole world, which does not recognize any settlements. They are now defending their right to shoot children who throw stones and helpless fishermen pursuing the crumbs of a livelihood in the sea off the coast of Gaza, their right to continue snatching people from their beds in the middle of the night in the West Bank; they are fighting for the right to detain hundreds of people without trial, to hold political prisoners, to abuse them.

That is what they are protecting, that is what they are fighting for — for an area that most of them have not been to for years, and don’t care what happens there, for conduct that is shameful even to some of them. These are the sins and this is the punishment. Does anyone think that Israel can go on without being punished? Without being ostracized? And to tell the truth, doesn’t Israel deserve to be punished? Hasn’t the world been unbelievably tolerant so far?

Orange or SodaStream, academic boycott or artistic boycott, these are light punishments. The penalties will grow worse the longer Israel avoids drawing the necessary conclusions. As opposed to attempts by Israel and the Jewish establishment to divert the discussion, at its heart is not anti-Semitism. At its heart is the occupation. That is the source of the delegitimization.

The nation can fight against the position of the whole world. It can stand up for its rights (which are not its rights) and think that it is fighting for its survival. But do the Israelis know what they are defending now? What they are not willing to surrender? Is all this worth it to them? That discussion has not even begun here.

Source: http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.659952

majority continues to keep their head in the sand. If the Palestinians are defeated out of
a viable state, how will peace be realized? It will be nothing more than a smoke and
mirrors attempt at a resolution.

You say that your support is based on opposition to the Occupation. Many of y0u say that you could be otherwise normal Israelis who love their country. Well and good. But how do you reconcile that with the obvious anti-Israelism and antisemitism of the Palestinian founders of the movement?

Same story as some people who believe themselves to be progressive but support the most right wing conservative , homophobic, mysogenistic regimes such as those in Gaza and the West Bank for that matter.

Why ? Because they anti Israel.

That's how the term "Pinkwashing " came to be .... A way to make a good thing Israel does on LGBT rights into a bad thing.

because while Israel's supporters will cry salty tears over the treatment of LGBT Palestinians by Palestinians, the common solution emoted from what we see here is to keep the occupation going, what is ignored almost studiously is that Israeli security uses being LGBT against Palestinians, in both the West Bank where even though being Gay is legal, it frequently carries repercussions from family and society and from Gaza where being a Gay male carries a 10 year prison sentence to blackmail them into collaboration with Israeli security

http://972mag.com/why-i-wont-be-participating-in-tel-avivs-pride-parade/107499/



http://www.democraticunderground.com/1134105585#post5

"Pinkwashing " is a term invented by those who despise the fact that the Jewish state is extremely progressive on the Gay file.

So in order to make this huge positive for Israel into a negative, the term "Pinkwashing " was invented.

They can't have Israel doing a good thing can they?

They certainly have not convinced us Gays on this ....

Tel Aviv pride this year will have record number of Gay tourists - did somebody say boycott?

LOL

-----------------------


Gay Pride Week in Tel Aviv-Jaffa

The city of Tel Aviv-Jaffa is expecting a crowd of 180,000 revelers from all over on June 12 for its annual Gay Pride Parade, which will focus for the first time on Israel’s transgender people.

The parade is the culmination of Gay Pride Week, a string of events expected to draw at least 25,000 tourists. Despite the broad acceptance of gays and lesbians in Israel, Maavarim, an Israeli transgender organization, said that 50 percent of the transgender population has experienced physical violence, and a study from the Tel Aviv Ministry of Economy found that 68 percent of transgender citizens face workplace discrimination. This year’s pride week theme, “Tel Aviv Loves All Genders,” is designed as a show of support.

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/06/07/travel/gay-pride-week-in-tel-aviv-jaffa.html?referrer=&_r=0

Thank you, I couldn't have asked for more

Huh ? I have no idea what that even means...

http://972mag.com/why-i-wont-be-participating-in-tel-avivs-pride-parade/107499/

And I explained its an invented term to denigrate Israel for being a progressive state.

You wanted to take the conversation on a different tangent .

I didn't bite... And I am not biting now.

no need to denigrate Israel's progressive stance on LGBT nonPalestinians

In fact the policies are identical.

And I didn't say they were Progeessive , I said some people who consider themselves progressive.

Real progressives have no problem encouraging Gay rights and do not accept any kind of homophobia like that found in Gaza.

The term Pinkwashing was invented not by anyone promoting Gay rights but by those who could not accept Gay Liberal Israel being considered a good thing.... The growing support Israel receives from Gay tourism is proof.

of a Palestinian State even though Israel clearly abuses LGBT Palestinians right along with nonLGBT Palestinians who live under it's military occupation and siege

Pinkwashing
Earthquake aid washing
Field hospital help washing

These are all made up terms

http://972mag.com/why-i-wont-be-participating-in-tel-avivs-pride-parade/107499/

This Palestinian Gay male from the West Bank seems to think the penalty would be death .

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1134105326


In your post do you assume to know better than this Palestinian Gay male who actually comes from the West Bank ?

as they are quite interesting

a clear distinction of what they're divesting from, have done so in writing:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1134&pid=105561

First let's define that. BDS is structured as a core movement of Palestinians, and a group of supporting organizations around the world. Not all of those organizations have the same agenda. So it's possible that there are entire organizations that support ending the Occupation and also reject the more noxious elements of the core Palestinian agenda (RoR and the end of a Jewish state). I don't know if there are actually such organizations who expressly take the position that they are against the Occupation and also against enforcing RoR, but they could exist. So at the organizational level, BDS isn't monolithic. Those organizations are also made up of individuals, and those individuals may not all walk in lock step. There may be individuals who support BDS to end the Occupation, but who don't support the end of the Jewish state. My question is directed to those people.

The issue is two fold. First, the core objectives of the movement as stated by the Palestinians who started it, include effectively the end of the Jewish state. Even if that was not the case, the people whom BDS is intended to support, the Palestinians, do hold those beliefs and objectives. So how do well meaning supporters of BDS reconcile their support for a Jewish state with supporting a movement that seeks the end of that state?

When they write that commitment, they are in fact making their divestment clear
from Barghouti.

They have no obligation to go further than that, they also do not have the power to
do more than that. One of the main criticisms of BDS is that if there were clear
objectives, they would be able to accomplish more. My personal opinion is that may
be true, but BDS is acquiring more steam despite the critics.

Keep in mind, the entire structure within the Palestinian factions is a mess, there
is no unification. Abbas has no stated association with BDS. As you can see from the
OP, Israeli citizens want a means to end the occupation..people are doing what they
can. The president of Israel has a one state position as well..they're all over the place.

Ideally, two states, WB and EJ for the Palestinians capital, that is what I support
but many people understandably find that an impossibility.

He is American .....ask Ronnie Barkan .

Another American, tho not one of the same political persuasion as yourself aranthus , has a interview with Ronnie Barkan on his blog today :

Israeli TV Ambush Interview with BDS Activist, Ronnie Barkan
by RICHARD SILVERSTEIN on JUNE 8, 2015

Source: http://www.richardsilverstein.com/2015/06/08/israeli-tv-ambush-interview-with-bds-activist-ronnie-barkan/





If you are asking me ...you dont " reconcile that " ....same way you dont " reconcile " with the hatred spouted by Kach and Co. who spawned Yigal Amir .

You move on aranthus....to a solution .
Problem is that from our perspective the Two State Solution is dead .
This Gov will never end the settlements ....its a Gov of settlers and pro status quo.

So I ask you ....do you have an alternative to BDS ?

Nor is it directed at you. You are fine with the goals of BDS, including the end of the Jewish state. What is there for you to reconcile? I was asking those people who claim to be well meaning and only want the end of the Occupation. And please don't try to pigeonhole me in the same category as that video. It's false and disingenuous. I asked a fair question. It deserves an answer.

Do I have an alternative to BDS? Sure. Stop trying to destroy the Jewish state. Since I don't think that the Palestinians and their Leftist supporters will ever give up their desire to destroy the Jewish state, that isn't a realistic expectation. You see, first we have to agree on what are the legitimate goals of any movement. You think that the goal of BDS, including the goal of replacing the Jewish state with an Arab majority state, is just fine. I think it's heinous. So where is there to go?

....or at me ....just how did you expect ..."" I asked a fair question. It deserves an answer. "".........an answer ?????

Bit illogical if you ask me .

I want the end of the Occupation and equality for all citizens of my country aranthus....and I could not care less what religion those citizens follow .

We are not trying to destroy " the Jewish state " nor replace it with " an Arab majority state ".

" So where is there to go? " ......good question ....you should ask our Minister of Education , Naftali Bennett I'm sure he would be only to happy to educate you on his policy of unilateral annexation of the West Bank.