Israel/Palestine
Related: About this forumKerry Tells Netanyahu: U.S. Will Not Recognize Settlement Blocs in Return for West Bank Gestures
Meeting between prime minister and U.S. secretary of state ends in stalemate as U.S. says 'a big no' to Netanyahu's offer from two weeks ago.Barak Ravid Nov 25, 2015
Secretary of State John Kerry, currently on a visit to the region, told Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu during their meeting on Tuesday that the United States would not agree to recognize construction in the West Bank settlement blocs in exchange for Israeli steps in the West Bank, as Netanyahu had suggested during their meeting in the U.S. two weeks ago.
Deputy State Department Spokesman Mark Toner told reporters during the daily briefing that the American answer to Netanyahus demand in this matter was a big no. He added that both Republican and Democratic administrations regarded construction in the settlements and Israeli attempts to create facts on the ground as undermining a two-state solution.
"Every U.S. administration since 1967...has opposed Israeli settlement activity. This administration has been no different and will be no different, Toner said.
http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-1.688185
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)for Palestinians. Ever hear the argument that Bibi would give back the WB if he
believed the violence would end? lol Then the Gaza, think, Gaza! The horse shit
that enables this disgrace for FIFTY YEARS is a dark stain for a country that
could have been a model for democracy in the ME..it is not even close to
accomplishing that goal. Ignoring the occupying power for decades in order
to claim a thriving democracy exists is for the blind and the heartless.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts), always playing "eternal victim", while the real victims neck lies under their boot heel.
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)Why Some Israelis Are (Not So Secretly) Gloating Over Paris Attacks
read more: http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.686835
Many Israelis have entered an ugly sympathy competition in which they feel slighted by the little attention the world pays to our terror victims while gushing solidarity over Paris attacks.
The day after the Paris attacks, I asked an Israeli who emigrated from France if she was shocked and upset to see such destruction in the city where she once lived. To my surprise, she said no - and to my utter shock, went a step further. They deserved it, she said calmly.
I immediately asked her why. Her reasoning: France and the rest of the European Union had just decided to label products from the West Bank. From her point of view, this was the French kicking Israel when she was down. Israel, was, after all, in the midst of a wave of bloody stabbing and car attacks, as barbaric and unjustified as what happened inside the Bataclan club or in Parisian cafes.
If the French werent interested in feeling Israels pain, she asked, why should she feel theirs? For many of her fellow French Jews now in Israel, among them the thousands who have recently left (including the Bataclans former owners) their bitterness was compounded by the feeling of having been Frances neglected canary in the coal mine. As they see it, France - and the world - paid little attention when Islamist violence was directed at them - from the Ilan Halimi killing to the murders in Toulouse to last Januarys Hyper Cacher attack, which played second fiddle to the Charlie Hebdo massacre. While they were certainly not happy in any way over how events were playing out, there was a definite sense of We told you so - and vindication of their decision to move, despite the fact that life in Israel was far from a guarantee of security.
On the same day, my daughters elementary school teacher led a current events class, and they were all eager to discuss the events in Paris they had seen on the news non-stop for the past 24 hours. The teacher refused to address the topic until the very end of the session. It was much more important to talk about what had happened in Israel, with the murderous terror attack that claimed the lives Rabbi Yaacov Litman and his teenage son Netanel Litman on the same day Paris was hit. The whole world may be focused on France, the teacher explained to her sixth-graders, but Israelis needed to pay attention to these killings - because the rest of the world didnt care about them.
Though most Israelis are officially and unofficially standing with France with published shows of support, from Tel Aviv vigils to Facebook profile pictures and hashtags to Israeli buildings lit up in red, white, and blue in solidarity with France, there is also an undeniable undercurrent of resentment in the air. Whether stated or hinted, there is a bitter feeling that while terror attacks in the heart of Paris inspire international outrage and mass identification - Israelis who lose their lives to violence on a daily basis have been relegated to the back pages of the newspapers. The feeling comes through loud and clear on my social media feed in both Hebrew and English. As one friend put it on Facebook, Israelis are killed, and killed, and killed, and it feels like no one cares.
Hers was the most heartfelt of the bunch. Others make their point more sharply - like these memes:
https://www.facebook.com/YallaWarriors/photos/a.833202443415674.1073741829.833177973418121/895750103827574/?type=3
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10154394204189832&set=a.10150854507974832.511589.818569831&type=3
On one Israeli morning show, a social media analyst claimed in an interview that a full third of Israeli social media posts discussing the Paris attacks had an element of schadenfreude, and even more related what happened in Paris to local events.
It reached the top with Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu posting on his Facebook page It's time for the world to condemn terrorism against Israel in the same manner that it condemns terrorism in France and anywhere else in the world.
Later, on camera, he elaborated by saying We are not to blame for the terrorism directed against us, just as the French are not to blame for the terrorism directed against them. It is the terrorists who are to blame for terrorism, not the territories, not the settlements and not any other thing. It is the desire to destroy us that perpetuates this conflict and drives the murderous aggression against us.
Israeli commentators were quick to respond that European leaders arent buying into Netanyahus logic. On the evening news the same day Channel 2 correspondent Udi Segal scoffed: The thought that Europe will somehow 'understand us' now after the Paris attacks and will now agree with Israeli policy in general and towards the West Bank specifically is a worthless expectation that is doomed to disappoint those who hold it.
Israelis are, to be sure, not alone in feeling as if lives in the Middle East and Africa are somehow less precious than their counterparts in Europe, and are not the only ones sending the world on guilt trips for what looks like excessive reaction to Paris, as if Third World lives dont matter. There have also been loud complaints that the massacre of university students in April in Garissa, Kenya didnt get the same 24/7 worldwide attention, even though the act was no less horrific and the number of victims just as high, and that violence in Turkey, Iraq, and Lebanon gets the same treatment. The latter is especially notable since a terrible attack in Beirut took place just before Paris and received a comparatively miniscule amount.
But just because everyone else is doing it doesnt make it right. Every innocent life claimed by terrorism deserves to be marked and their grieving loved ones comforted, whether or not they would have mourned our own deaths sufficiently, no matter how much or how little media coverage they receive, whether or not we might feel a legitimate sting that lives lost in our own country havent warranted the same amount of attention.
Israelis - and everyone else - would do well to remember that tragedy and mourning are not some kind of international competitive sport. Terrible bloody events are not opportunities for one-upmanship or attempting to out-victim one another.
We in the Middle East and other regions threatened by terrorism go about our lives resilient and determined, grasping on to every precious bit of joy and normalcy we can, and defying those who would terrorize us, demonstrating by example that if we can do it, Europeans can do it, too. That strength is a gift that we can offer Parisians and it is a gift to ourselves as well. Responding to their devastation with understanding and generosity of spirit will serve us far better than unattractive bitterness or jealousy at the sympathy and attention they are receiving in their grief.
Allison Kaplan Sommer
Haaretz Correspondent
read more: http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.686835
starroute
(12,977 posts)This sentence jumped out at me: "Israelis are, to be sure, not alone in feeling as if lives in the Middle East and Africa are somehow less precious than their counterparts in Europe, and are not the only ones sending the world on guilt trips for what looks like excessive reaction to Paris, as if Third World lives dont matter."
Israel normally justifies the billions that the US spends on its defense with the argument that it is a precious outpost of First World values and First World prosperity. But here they're trying to demand sympathy by suggesting that Israeli lives are seen as mattering less than French lives because Israel is a third world country, just like Lebanon or Kenya.
The blatant dishonesty here, and the unscrupulous attempt to play on the "black lives matter" theme (especially considering how Israel treats its own African refugees), are overwhelming.
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)Israeli
(4,159 posts)http://www.thenation.com/article/violence-moral-equivalence-and-the-end-of-a-two-state-solution-in-israel-palestine/
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)Israeli
(4,159 posts)"" Some Israelis "" ....Jefferson23........some , not all .
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)Israeli
(4,159 posts)Hillary Clinton's election as U.S. president would ensure Israels continued decline and degeneration. And so she is not a friend, but an enemy. She must not be allowed to deceive and present herself as a friend of Israel, as she tried so ingratiatingly to do in an article published in The Forward (How I would reaffirm unbreakable bond with Israel and Benjamin Netanyahu) last week.
The tear ducts were targeted as she wrote of how she assisted Magen David Adom in being accepted to the International Red Cross. But she and those like her false friends of Israel have been one of the curses on this country for years. Because of them, Israel can continue to act as wildly as it likes, thumbing its nose at the world and paying no price. Because of them, it can destroy itself unhindered.
Whether Clinton believes what she wrote or simply wanted once again to sell her soul for a fistful of dollars from Haim Saban and other Jewish donors, the result is extremely embarrassing. A love letter to Israel, the likes of which no U.S. statesman would ever write to another country. Americans believe Israel is more than a country its a dream, she states. Most of the world calls it a nightmare, yet Clinton says a dream. What dream exactly? The dream of tyrannical control over another people? Racism? Nationalism? The killing of women and children in Gaza?
What happened to the Hillary Rodham Clinton who in her youth fought for civil rights and against the Vietnam War, and as a lawyer specialized in childrens rights? Did she not hear what her dream state is doing to Palestinian children? What happened to the glorious career woman who was considered liberal and justice-seeking on her way up? Did she forget it all? Does money buy everything? Or, when it comes to Israel, do all principles suddenly change?
Did the former secretary of state not hear about the Israeli occupation? After all, she didnt mention it once in her article. This is not the time or place to anger Saban. To Clinton, Israel is a thriving democracy and to hell with the violent and totalitarian regime in its backyard. And so Clinton is also an enemy of peace and justice. She doesnt believe there has been the slightest damage to Palestinian rights. Israelis being stabbed in Jerusalem appalls Clinton. Palestinians being unjustifiably shot to death, meanwhile, fails to register with her. They will love her for that on Fifth Avenue. Religious figures who encourage killing are, of course, only Muslim; only Israeli security must be vouchsafed. The synagogues of Manhattan will love that, too. Clinton pledges to meet with Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu during her first month in office. Also, that she will send a delegation of the U.S. Armys Joint Chiefs of Staff to Israel. What for, exactly?
For Clinton, this isnt just about policy, it is a personal commitment to the friendship
and our vision for peace and security. One could, of course, explain away this sorry, honey-dripped statement with the need to raise more money from Jews. But one cannot ignore the content. Clinton is a leading candidate to become the next president of the United States, and her commitment to the continued Israeli occupation and its funding has been proven in the past. The Palestinians are also reading her words. What are they supposed to think in the face of this one-sided extremism? What can they expect in light of such outright disregard for their fate? Hope for change, which has already taken a beating during President Barack Obamas time in office, will not be able to rise if Clinton is president.
Most American Jews will support her, some because they think she is good for Israel. Well, dear brethren, she is not. A person who supports the continued occupation is like a person who continues to buy drugs for an addicted relative. This is neither concern nor friendship; it is destruction. Perhaps some ignorant Republican would be preferable in the White House after all. But, on second thoughts, he would surely be funded by Sheldon Adelson.
Gideon Levy
Haaretz Correspondent
Source: http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/1.684711
King_David
(14,851 posts)And offering us advice on who to vote for in our election.
And trashing our leading Democratic Party candidate. ( WTF ? He thinks he's American? )
And most of all telling us what's good for Israel.
PRICELESS!
Israeli
(4,159 posts)Make up your mind KD .
King_David
(14,851 posts)The man has some Chutzpah because he goes on to trash the leading American Democratic Party candidate....
King_David
(14,851 posts)Israeli
(4,159 posts).........and you expect me to know this ??
Might as well wish me Merry Christmas KD ....
King_David
(14,851 posts)shira
(30,109 posts)....when that happens to fall, unless we google it first.
Israeli
(4,159 posts).....and it means as much to me as your " Thanksgiving motek " .
King_David
(14,851 posts)R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)they don't like to hear.
shira
(30,109 posts)R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)mind their own brand, IMHO.
Israeli
(4,159 posts)post # 8 ....
Violence, Moral Equivalence, and the End of a Two-State Solution in Israel-Palestine
http://www.thenation.com/article/violence-moral-equivalence-and-the-end-of-a-two-state-solution-in-israel-palestine/
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)azurnoir
(45,850 posts)and Happy Thanksgiving to you
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)shira
(30,109 posts)azurnoir
(45,850 posts)I'll rate that right up there with Hitler was a Leftwinger because the name of his party had 'socalist' in it
shira
(30,109 posts)Supported by the far Left.
Just as Hamas are fascists but considered part of the global progressive left by the unhinged extreme.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)God are you hopelessly uninformed.