Israel/Palestine
Related: About this forumHerzog: For now, two-state solution unrealistic
http://www.timesofisrael.com/herzog-for-now-two-state-solution-unrealistic/The opposition leader blamed the current Israeli and Palestinian leadership for the impasse [Prime Minister Benjamin] Netanyahu and [PA President Mahmoud Abbas] are incapable of moving forward, he alleged but said that should he be elected prime minister, his coalition would focus on implementing security measures rather than a bilateral agreement.
There is a need to initiate security measures that match the reality on the ground and that means separation from the Palestinians, he told Army Radio, espousing a plan that includes completing the West Bank security barrier and physically separating the Palestinian villages surrounding Jerusalem from the capital.
...
In a move that many considered a sharp turn to the right for the leader of the Zionist Union a party comprising the stalwart center-left Labor and Tzipi Livnis dovish Hatnua Herzog said he saw the need to complete the security barrier around all of the settlement blocs.
He said that routing the fence around the blocs would both protect the people living there from attacks and send a message to the Palestinians that they will remain a part of Israel in any future negotiations.
There is zero daylight between Zionist Union and Likud, and there is zero daylight between the Israeli mainstream and Cruz/Rubio on the subject.
Herzog is merely a wimpy version of Bibi. He might as well join the coalition now that the two-state solution is officially dead to the Israelis.
Obama's I/P policy has been a grand folly, trying to save Israel from itself.
King_David
(14,851 posts)Really?
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)King_David
(14,851 posts)Truth is that both Bernie and Hillary and Obama would not and hopefully will not have any problems with Zionist Union party at all ... None, Nada , Zilch ... And you know it ... Whereas extremist views on Israel similar to a handful of DUrs will never see the light of day with Bernie , Hillary or Obama .... EVER !!!
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)negotiations for a Palestinian state.
That is not Bernie's policy. It's not Hillary's stated policy.
King_David
(14,851 posts)Enlighten us on Hillary and Bernie policy on Israel .... You could ask Mondoweiss for a primer if you want.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)This puts her in disagreement with Netanyahu's Mini-Me, Herzog.
King_David
(14,851 posts)shira
(30,109 posts)http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/obama-no-two-state-solution_us_563beb36e4b0307f2cacdb00
Fozzledick
(3,860 posts)Every time they've been offered negotiations toward a peaceful two state solution, they've walked out, resumed a campaign of terrorism, and bragged about their unwillingness to accept any negotiated compromise. This is what they have chosen.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Congratulations on choosing the only perfect country on the planet to root for
shira
(30,109 posts)Yet here you are accusing your opponents of the same in reverse.
shira
(30,109 posts)WASHINGTON -- The White House has assessed that a two-state solution between Israel and the occupied Palestinian territories is not likely to happen before President Barack Obama leaves office.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/obama-no-two-state-solution_us_563beb36e4b0307f2cacdb00
Little Tich
(6,171 posts)Postponing the creation of a Palestinian state indefinitely, while at the same time building more settlements and fencing in the Palestinians is the one-state solution.
Interestingly, a move to postpone a two-state solution also opens up for BDS of Israel proper, and not just the settlements. If a Palestinian state isn't even possible in theory, there's only one state, and the people living in Gaza and the West Bank are just Israelis without citizenship. This means that Apartheid in the West Bank is the same as if it happened in "pre-1967" Israel.
I don't buy settlement products, but I do buy Israeli products, because there's a difference. But if Israel implements a de facto one-state solution, there's no difference between the settlements and Israel. All of Israel will suddenly become an Apartheid state.
I don't want Israel to become an Apartheid state, but the crazy talk of opposition politicians makes me fear that there's no real alternative to Netanyahu and the one-state solution he's working so hard to become real.
shira
(30,109 posts)And as you can see in 2 posts here, Obama said the same thing as Herzog.
So is Obama now a 1-stater for Apartheid too?
How silly.
Little Tich
(6,171 posts)Obama was forced to downgrade his expectations simply because Netanyahu thwarted him at every turn. Herzog only hopes that Obama or anyone else with the silly notion that a Palestinian state is needed just gives up and stops trying to butt in.
It seems as if both the Israeli ruling coalition and the opposition are pleased to create a binational state by slowly building away any chance for a Palestinian state. The rest of the world including the present and any future American President can only helplessly watch it happen.
Netanyahu has won, he's killed the Palestinian state, permanently.
shira
(30,109 posts)....two-state scenario that leaves Israel intact.
Just because the Palestinans reject every offer Israel makes doesn't mean it's Israel's fault there aren't 2 states. Besides, it's never been the Palestinians' intention (PLO, Hamas) that Israel remain a Jewish state alongside Palestine in peace. That's not Israel's fault.
Little Tich
(6,171 posts)I just think it's wrong to implement measures that make the two-state solution less possible, rather than implementing measures that make the two-state solution more possible. Netanyahu's way is the way to the (Apartheid) one-state solution, and I'm against that.
shira
(30,109 posts)Israeli
(4,151 posts)Herzog is feeling threatened politically so he is trying to be the ' tuf guy ' and to loose the ' wimp ' image that he holds amongst most Israelis ....including his own voter base ....
United Centrist Party With Ex-general Ashkenazi Could Oust Netanyahu, Poll Suggests
Should former IDF chief join forces with center-left Yesh Atid and center-right Kulanu party to form single political ticket, they would win more Knesset seats than the Likud, TV polls say.
Haaretz Jan 21, 2016
A centrist party that includes former chief of General Staff Gabi Ashkenazi, Yesh Atid chairman Yair Lapid, and Kulanu chairman Moshe Kahlon would get 29 Knesset seats in a general election, compared to only 24 for Likud, according to a poll released Thursday night by Channel 10 news.
According to a poll by Channel 2, the public believes that Ashkenazi had a better chance of defeating Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu in an election than Zionist Union chairman Isaac Herzog or Lapid, but still find Netanyahu more suitable to be prime minister.
With no election in sight, both surveys were released in wake of Attorney General Yehuda Weinstein's decision Wednesday to close the criminal investigation into Ashkenazi and a number of former IDF officials in what has become known as the Harpaz affair, a convoluted scandal surrounding the process of selecting Ashkenazis successor. Police had recommended that Ashkenazi be charged with obstructing justice.
According to the Channel 10 poll, conducted by Prof. Camil Fuchs, if Ashkenazi, Lapid, and Kahlon band together to form a new centrist party, that party would get 29 seats should the elections be held now. Likud would get 24, Zionist Union, 13, the Joint Arab List, 13, Habayit Hayehudi 12, and Yisrael Beiteinu, 10.
Participants were also asked about a scenario in which Ashkenazi assumes chairmanship of Zionist Union. In that case, Zionist Union would get 18 seats and the Likud 27. Habayit Hayehudi and the Joint List would each get 13, Yisrael Beiteinu, nine, and Kulanu and Shas, seven seats each.
If Ashkenazi were to run as Lapids No. 2 in Yesh Atid, the party would get 19 seats. The Likud would lead with 26 seats, and Zionist Union would get 14.
Channel 2s poll was conducted by Mano Geva and Mina Zemach of the Midgam Institute, in conjunction with Ipanel, an online survey community. Asked whether Netanyahu or Ashkenazi was more suited to be prime minister, 41 percent said Netanyahu and 16 percent said Ashkenazi. More than 31 percent responded that neither was suitable.
Asked who was most suited to leading Zionist Union, 38 percent said Ashkenazi and 18 percent chose Herzog. Asked, Who among the following people has the best chance to defeat Netanyahu if he would be a partys candidate for prime minister, Ashkenazi was chosen by 29 percent, compared to 24 percent for Lapid. Herzog got only 8 percent.
Source: http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/1.698881
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Labor needs a real leader, not a limp noodle like Bougie.