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shira

(30,109 posts)
Wed Aug 29, 2012, 08:53 AM Aug 2012

Frankfurt to Award Professor Who Called Hamas, Hezbollah Progressive (VIDEO)

The Jerusalem Post asked Butler about statements she once made, claiming that Hamas and Hezbollah are “social movements that are progressive, that are on the Left, that are part of a global Left.” In an e-mail, Butler responded by saying her comments were “taken out of context.”

“My remarks on Hamas and Hezbollah have been taken out of context and misrepresent my established and continuing views,” Butler said in an email message. “I was asked by a member of an academic audience whether I thought Hamas and Hezbollah belonged to the ‘global Left,’ and I replied with two points. My first point was that those political organizations define themselves as anti-imperialist, and anti-imperialism is one characteristic of the global Left. My second point was the following: As with any group on the Left, one has to decide whether one is for that group or against it.”

Taken from a video of the said event, posted below, her precise remarks were as follows: “I think, yes, understanding Hamas/Hezbollah as social movements that are progressive that are on the left; that are part of a global Left is extremely important….Again, a critical and important engagement, I mean I certainly think it should be entered into the conversation of the Left.”

Butler said that she has “never taken a stand on either organization” in her e-mail to The Post.


more...
http://www.algemeiner.com/2012/08/28/frankfurt-to-award-professor-who-called-hamas-hezbollah-progressive-video/



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aquart

(69,014 posts)
1. Well...on what basis would you label them right wing?
Wed Aug 29, 2012, 09:11 AM
Aug 2012

I think the problem is, as usual, with the word "progressive." They ain't liberal or all inclusive or pro-women's or gay rights...but they aren't Kochwhores, either.

I can see how her thinking out loud seemed offensive...we don't want to believe there is gun-toting, medieval, mental sludge on the left because we are the saviors of mankind.

Nonetheless.

 

Alamuti Lotus

(3,093 posts)
5. social and economic policies more than satisfy that distinction
Wed Aug 29, 2012, 06:35 PM
Aug 2012

their social policies are actually rather quixotic, often locally defined, and cannot be easily designated. Not really as "conservative" as many would suggest. However, their economic platform--or almost lack thereof, excepting a tacit, if somewhat uncommitted and confused, approval of status quo capitalist domination--places them roughly on the centre-right overall. Their management of the case of former Labor Minister Charbel Nahhas was thoroughly disgusting and pretty much laid bare precisely where things stand on those fronts. It showed that whatever principles might be voiced to the contrary, they will ultimately not take on "the 1%" (to use the label de jour for the plutocratic elites that run basically every society) in their own backyard, despite the fact that they're geniunely not really a part of it.

That said, I have long supported the party vis a vis the highly successful resistance, enormous social welfare efforts, and their adept foreign policy stances, but I have no illusions about where they stand on other matters. I consider myself "far left" (whatever that means), and I do not consider them to be such. There are many points of policy that align, and many that could not be more apart. They represent the revolutionary current of the early Islamic Republic, but have stalled in their firebrand nature since becoming respectable (and in control of the state--which is the death of every halfway decent revolutionary movement). The perceptions peddled by zionist fanatics and their fellow travellers are thoroughly detached from reality, as most of their public relations efforts tend to be, but that does not make the converse assumptions true either--this is a mistake that certain optimistic or naive intellectuals may make, perhaps also the subject of the original post (I am not familiar with her or the Germans(?) involved with the story, so I cannot comment otherwise).

This didn't so much apply to Hamas. I have so much contempt for the movement (though not along the familiar lines that zionists may appreciate--quite the contrary, perhaps) that any comment of mine would perhaps be inappropriate.

 

Alamuti Lotus

(3,093 posts)
9. then give me a detailed analysis
Wed Aug 29, 2012, 06:46 PM
Aug 2012

take the 3:41pm edit (final draft--excepting a 3:52pm addition commenting on Hamas that you might appreciate, or maybe not), as that contains many additions to my initial comments. If you're going to dispute what I have seen and heard with my own eyes and ears with something you read on some hasbarist vanity blog, just know that you can expect hearty laughter in return.

pelsar

(12,283 posts)
10. a few points that tends to blind the far left...
Thu Aug 30, 2012, 02:12 AM
Aug 2012

hamas and hizballa and other theocractic movements are all the same:
they are all imperalisitic
all anti democratic
all take advantage of the poor and uneducated
very very conservative
very elitist
very nationalistic
very racist

the concept that they will somehow "throw away their beliefs" once in power doesnt bear out in reality, what we do see is their patience, but that too is a characteristic any religious based group. God gives them the patience to wait out any all problems that they face and slowly build their power base and once in remove all those that oppose and remove/limit the elections as well

The "anti-imperarlism" is only anti-western, they are in fact very nationalistic based on race and religion. Once in power they tend to attempt to expand their area of influence, and attempt to become the "imperial" power. (hizballas has been slowly expanding in Lebanon, hamas in to the west bank)

an internal hierarchy based on genes and family (i.e. racism)

their only "redeeming feature" is their social network starting with children, but the motivation is obvious. You feed the kids, keep them out of the govt schools and raise an army of poor, dependent, limited educated people. You may find that a "progressive" characteristic, and it may very well be, its also a far right nationalistic characteristic as well

hamas and hizballa are equally far right and far left, as they both have very identical characteristics

aranthus

(3,385 posts)
3. Well, anyone who hates Israel and the West can't be all bad.
Wed Aug 29, 2012, 12:58 PM
Aug 2012

But try telling the truth about the alliance between the Far Left and radical Islamists and your post gets hidden. Hmmmm.

 

shira

(30,109 posts)
4. WRT the alliance b/w the far Left and radical Islamists....
Wed Aug 29, 2012, 01:14 PM
Aug 2012

Check out the cartoon:

http://www.thecommentator.com/article/1581/the_guardian_s_beacon_of_islamist_justice_the_crescent_moon_shines_bright_on_comment_is_free

I also just came across the following recently:
http://hurryupharry.org/2011/12/13/did-the-guardians-seumas-milne-spend-his-gap-year-training-at-a-pflp-camp-in-beirut/

I swear I cannot tell the difference between the far Right and far Left. Birds of a feather...

=======

Now watch out. Some here will take this as an attack on all Leftwingers. Maybe they should educate themselves WRT the difference between the decent vs. the vile Left:

http://brockley.blogspot.com/2010/09/influential-left-wingers_18.html
http://brockley.blogspot.com/2010/12/influential-left-wing-ideas.html

aranthus

(3,385 posts)
8. Not sure where you're going with the links to Brockley.
Wed Aug 29, 2012, 06:45 PM
Aug 2012

Are you saying that he's a "decent" Leftist, or merely that he differentiates between "good" and "bad" Leftists. Some of his ideas are questionable at best. I have no idea whether he's a decent human being or not, but I think that most Jews think that the "one-state" idea he espouses is evil.

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