Israel/Palestine
Related: About this forumWhy won’t Europe state the obvious about Hezbollah?
Everyone knows the Lebanese Shiite group is a terrorist organization, especially the French. But even Bulgarias indictment may not change what one US legislator calls an indefensible EU policy
By RAPHAEL AHREN February 6, 2013, 7:56 pm 14
http://www.timesofisrael.com/why-wont-europe-state-the-obvious-about-hezbollah/
...The West didnt need a Bulgarian police report to know Hezbollah is a terrorist organization. Even Turkey includes Hassan Nasrallahs militia in its official list of terrorist groups. So why is it that the EU refuses to state the obvious, and thereby help prevent terrorism and save lives?
Officially labeling Hezbollah a terrorist entity would significantly hamper its ability to operate. But doing so requires unanimity among the EUs 27 member states.......
....As long as France hides behind the absence of near-unattainable unanimity and doesnt clearly take a stand, the EUs Common Position 2001/931/CFSP on the application of specific measures to combat terrorism is unlikely to be amended to include Hezbollah.
In other words, if France sticks to its guns, so will Hezbollah literally.
Failure to [list the organization as a terrorist group] will only give these killers the opportunity to further organize, recruit, raise funds, and carry out additional terrorist attacks across the continent, Royce, the chairman of House Foreign Affairs Committee, said. The EUs indefensible policy on Hezbollah makes defending all of us from Iranian-backed terrorism even more difficult.
DesertFlower
(11,649 posts)why not hezbollah?
shira
(30,109 posts)shaayecanaan
(6,068 posts)The US and Israel regard any Arab opposition as terrorism, whatever its purpose. The US placed Hezbollah on the terrorist list after the 1983 Marine Barracks bombing (even though that bombing killed only soldiers and not a single civilian).
Until 2000, Israel supported a rival Christian militia that opposed Hezbollah called the South Lebanon Army (SLA). The SLA was responsible for some of the worst terrorist incidents in the Lebanese Civil War including the Sabra and Shatila massacres, when the SLA (with Israeli assistance) surrounded and killed 2000 Palestinian civilians in the space of an afternoon. Essentially, the Europeans are sceptical of American and Israeli motives, given that the Israelis have supported far worse people in Lebanon without batting an eyelid.
For the most part, Hezbollah was head and shoulders above most other Lebanese militias during the Lebanese Civil War in that it did not take place in sectarian slaughters of civilians. Of course their policy was two-faced, in actual fact Hezbollah simply looked the other way while their sectarian allies (such as Amal, the other main Shia militia in Lebanon) carried out sectarian reprisals and kidnapped hostages. Even today, Shia militias are being accused of kidnapping Syrian rebel supporters in Lebanon. While Hezb takes pains to not be directly involved in those kidnappings, it goes without saying that none of those other militias would be able to operate without their tacit approval.
For the most part Hezbollah has also avoided attracting the ire of other Western nations. It sharply denounced the September 11 attacks and has disavowed the Quttubist and Salafist ideologies of Sunni terrorist groups. It has also stated that it does not wish to impose Sharia law on Lebanese people without their consent.
Hezb was accused of participating in a bombing of a Jewish community centre in Argentina about twenty years ago, although evidence was thin on the ground. However, aside from this Hezbollah has never been directly linked to bombings targeted at civilians. It has primarily dedicated its energies to killing Israeli, American and French soldiers whenever they have been stationed on Lebanese soil.
Like the IRA (which also tended to avoid targeting civilians and instead went after British soldiers and police) Hezbollah accumulated a level of political credibility that Hamas never had. In the same way that this permitted the IRA to raise funds in the United States for a long time (before September 11, New Jersey legislatures frequently passed resolutions in favour of the IRA) it has also allowed Hezb to raise funds in Europe without bothering the Europeans very much.
dlwickham
(3,316 posts)Obviously, there must be other reasons for the stubbornness of the French and their supporters, Germany among them. According to Matthew Levitt, the director of the Washington Institute for Near East Policys counterterrorism and intelligence program, the Europeans are afraid to stir up a hornets nest.
Hezbollah is not very active in Europe. The Europeans feel that if you poke Hezbollah or Iran in the eye then they will do the same to you. If you leave them alone, then maybe they will leave you alone, Levitt said.
France had particular cause for concern, Levitt told The Times of Israel, regarding what will happen to French UNIFIL [United Nations Interim Force in Lebanon] personnel, civilian and military, and they are also worried about the stability of Lebanon itself.
shira
(30,109 posts)azurnoir
(45,850 posts)Republican Ed Royce , nice when someone agrees with you and afew others here, isn't it?
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)shira
(30,109 posts)You have a problem with that?
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)but does give kudo's to Matthew Levitt who testified for the foreign relations comity during George Bush2's Presidency and another Republican Harold Lauder
makes one wonder
shira
(30,109 posts)...as a terrorist entity and that's why Kerry wants the EU to do so as well.
Once again:
Do you have a problem with that?
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)What exactly is the conclusive evidence? You know you're suppose to have that, correct?
What, among other aspects, did the autopsy show, what did the terrorist look like?
Who was involved with the investigations? No distinction is to be made about
Hezbollah and the military faction? Do you understand the distinction?
I doubt it.
* on edit for clarity.
shira
(30,109 posts)BEIRUT On one point, the United States agrees with Hezbollah's No. 2 leader, Naim Qassem, and not such allies as Britain.
Neither Qassem nor Washington distinguish between the Shiite militant group's political wing, which has members serving in the Lebanese Cabinet and parliament, and its military wing, preparing for the next round of battle against Israel. "Hezbollah has a single leadership," said the 57-year-old cleric in a rare interview with an American reporter recently.
"All political, social and jihad work is tied to the decisions of this leadership," he said. "The same leadership that directs the parliamentary and government work also leads jihad actions in the struggle against Israel."
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)Then you can answer the other questions you ignored, if you like.
shira
(30,109 posts)...but nevertheless pretend that one exists within Hezbollah.
You also choose to believe a distinction exists despite being shown it does not. You do so (like the EU does) in order to go on thinking that doing business with Hezbollah's politicians isn't half as bad as doing so with their militants (who are w/o question terrorists).
Not surprising, as reality appears to be whatever you wish it to be. I'm glad Israel does not operate like the EU, or they wouldn't exist. Nor should they if they ever got that f-ing dumb.
=======
I don't expect to see hard evidence of Hezbollah involvement. The less Hezbollah knows (so that they don't become even sneakier the next time) the better.
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)Your last statement: I don't expect to see hard evidence of Hezbollah involvement. The less Hezbollah knows (so that they don't become even sneakier the next time) the better. ( end )
Huh?
If this makes sense to someone, please translate.
shira
(30,109 posts)There's no reason to expect to see hard evidence of Hezbollah involvement. If that evidence becomes public, Hezbollah will learn from it and prepare for the next terror attack w/o making the same mistake again.
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)Essentially, you don't expect to see conclusive evidence of Hezbollah involvement, yet their guilty.
In addition, if there were conclusive evidence, the charged should not be afforded to see such evidence.
There's a label for people who support such things and it is not a compliment to you.
shira
(30,109 posts)Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)That's priceless. Have you ever read Stephen King's The Stand?
shira
(30,109 posts)azurnoir
(45,850 posts)wonder why?
Alamuti Lotus
(3,093 posts)shira
(30,109 posts)Can't say I see any part of them as a legit charitable organization. Like Oxfam, for example. But that's how the EU wants to treat them.
Do you prefer Hezbollah and Assad to their al-Qaeda backed enemies? Really shitty decision either way, isn't it?
Alamuti Lotus
(3,093 posts)You tend to speak for both sides in the argument (in effort, but not with any accuracy), so I almost feel like effort on my part is really not required. It still is, to point out the many aggregious errors made while presuming to speak for others, but I still say almost.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)as opposed to Israels, wrt to the US it just really doesn't matter all that much, we on US siol are not all that at risk from Hezbollah
shira
(30,109 posts)If so, that's already started.