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Jefferson23

(30,099 posts)
Mon Mar 11, 2013, 05:58 PM Mar 2013

Palestinian youth to protest Obama visit

BETHLEHEM (Ma'an) -- Palestinian youth on Sunday called for demonstrations during the upcoming visit of US President Barack Obama against any return to negotiations.

"We call on the masses of the Palestinian people to change this path and demonstrate against receiving he who considers Israel 'the closest ally in the region', and to refuse the return to futile negotiations," said the youth group Palestinians for Dignity.

Obama is expected to visit Jerusalem and Ramallah later in March.

"Despite the attempts of the Palestinian 'leadership' to ease the atmosphere, with statements about Obama pressuring the Israeli government on the issue of Palestinian political prisoners, or promises of petty US aid, however, the ultimate objectives of the visit are clear," the group said in a statement.

http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=573753

38 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Palestinian youth to protest Obama visit (Original Post) Jefferson23 Mar 2013 OP
This group also opposes any negotiations with Israel oberliner Mar 2013 #1
And? n/t Jefferson23 Mar 2013 #2
It's a very specific group with a very specific agenda oberliner Mar 2013 #3
You think you did represent their agenda? Jefferson23 Mar 2013 #4
They're wonderful kids if you're against peace via 2 states. n/t shira Mar 2013 #6
If that is what they desire..I have not seen anything that suggests they do. Jefferson23 Mar 2013 #7
I'm guessing they don't care leftynyc Mar 2013 #5
quote "this kind of demonstration will HELP Pres Obama here in the US." azurnoir Mar 2013 #8
It will help him with leftynyc Mar 2013 #9
umm if the last 4 years haven't "helped" with the 'belief' azurnoir Mar 2013 #10
I'm already a big supporter of Pres Obama leftynyc Mar 2013 #11
with who exactly? if his actions wrt Israel in the UNSC not to mention azurnoir Mar 2013 #12
Are you purposefully misunderstanding? leftynyc Mar 2013 #13
no I am not however those that still embrace those beliefs IMO will hardly be swayed azurnoir Mar 2013 #14
You're thinking intellectually leftynyc Mar 2013 #15
well of course I am and to be honest azurnoir Mar 2013 #20
I don't understand your question leftynyc Mar 2013 #21
oh I 'appreciate' how 9/11/01 was and still is being used to influenece Americans azurnoir Mar 2013 #23
That makes no sense at all leftynyc Mar 2013 #30
nope you stated I over estimated the support Palestinians have in the US azurnoir Mar 2013 #32
There is no fantasy involved leftynyc Mar 2013 #22
well post those video's if you like azurnoir Mar 2013 #24
Perhaps you're right leftynyc Mar 2013 #28
Look lets cut to the chase azurnoir Mar 2013 #34
Like I said upthread leftynyc Mar 2013 #35
'Very suspicious' = 'ignorant bigotry' Violet_Crumble Mar 2013 #16
I very much agree leftynyc Mar 2013 #17
Watching the lead-up to the last election was scary.... Violet_Crumble Mar 2013 #18
LOL - that's a great metaphor leftynyc Mar 2013 #19
and those videos of Arab mobs you wish to post"? azurnoir Mar 2013 #25
I didn't say I wanted to post leftynyc Mar 2013 #26
I said if you wish not that I doubt be my guest if you wish though:) azurnoir Mar 2013 #27
If you have an accusation to make leftynyc Mar 2013 #29
oye vey I wasn't being cutsie it was you that brought it up n/t azurnoir Mar 2013 #33
Palestinian Authority officials lower expectations of Obama visit Jefferson23 Mar 2013 #31
When were the expectations otherwise? oberliner Mar 2013 #36
I don't think they were expecting anything much when it was first announced. Jefferson23 Mar 2013 #37
Perhaps its more for domestic considerations oberliner Mar 2013 #38
 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
1. This group also opposes any negotiations with Israel
Mon Mar 11, 2013, 06:25 PM
Mar 2013

They support a political, economic, academic and cultural boycott of, what they call, the Zionist entity.

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
3. It's a very specific group with a very specific agenda
Mon Mar 11, 2013, 06:50 PM
Mar 2013

"Palestinian Youth" does not aptly capture that fact.

Jefferson23

(30,099 posts)
4. You think you did represent their agenda?
Mon Mar 11, 2013, 07:04 PM
Mar 2013

Statement on the Return to Negotiations
12 January, 2011

On the first anniversary of the ongoing Arab revolutions for justice, freedom and democracy, and the second anniversary of the Zionist Israeli aggression on the besieged Gaza Strip, Palestinian negotiators have again mistakenly returned to the negotiating table on January 3rd and 10th of this year. Counting on the same fruitless and failing process of the past two decades, the negotiations contradict past PLO statements that have explicitly rejected negotiations until settlement expansion is frozen, borders are clearly referenced and defined, and the fulfillment of the release of all political prisoners.
With dangerous disregard of the will and voice of the Palestinian people who have repeatedly protested these futile negotiations, failed Palestinian leadership is holding semi-clandestine meetings in Jordan.
By way of diversion, they have articulated that these meetings are merely “exploratory talks” when in fact they are negotiations to return to negotiations. Not only does this reflect the state of confusion and capriciousness on the part of the Palestinian leadership, but it also echoes its political weakness and lack of strategic vision.
While suffering daily at the hands of violent settlers, we continuously have more land swallowed by illegal colonies and an accelerated rate of the Judiaization of Jerusalem. Such negotiations have paved the way for 20 years of political subjugation and loss when their time should be spent on achieving unity and strengthening the peoples’ steadfastness to change the balance of power in favor of the Palestinian cause.
Therefore, we are calling on everyone to join us this Saturday, January 14th at 1:00 pm for a silent demonstration at the entrance of the Moqata (Irsal Street, Ramallah), to express our unequivocal refusal to these talks. Palestinian youth are fed up with illegitimate representation, a national consensus that does not unite them, and of a future state that does not guarantee the rights of the majority of the Palestinian people, in specific, Palestinian refugees in exile.
We will stand in silent protest to demand that these decision-makers adhere to the peoples’ will, withdraw immediately from these “exploratory talks,” and replace the current strategy with a strategy of resistance. We demand a strategy that is supported by political, economic, academic and cultural boycott of the Zionist entity, the strengthening of the steadfastness of the people, and preparation for direct elections to the Palestinian National Council (PNC) representative of Palestinians across the world.
Palestinians for Dignity

http://occupiedpalestine.wordpress.com/2012/01/12/palestinians-for-dignity-demonstration-against-the-return-to-negotiations-%D9%88%D9%82%D9%81%D8%A9-%D8%A5%D8%AD%D8%AA%D8%AC%D8%A7%D8%AC%D9%8A%D8%A9-%D8%B5%D8%A7%D9%85%D8%AA%D8%A9-%D8%B6%D8%AF-%D8%A7/

Jefferson23

(30,099 posts)
7. If that is what they desire..I have not seen anything that suggests they do.
Tue Mar 12, 2013, 03:01 PM
Mar 2013

But if true, they're right on board with Bibi...all going in the same direction..one state.

 

leftynyc

(26,060 posts)
5. I'm guessing they don't care
Tue Mar 12, 2013, 10:45 AM
Mar 2013

that this kind of demonstration will HELP Pres Obama here in the US.

azurnoir

(45,850 posts)
8. quote "this kind of demonstration will HELP Pres Obama here in the US."
Tue Mar 12, 2013, 03:09 PM
Mar 2013

how so? explain exactly why it will "help Pres Obama here in the US", I find that statement curious to say the least, what what exactly will it help him with?

 

leftynyc

(26,060 posts)
9. It will help him with
Tue Mar 12, 2013, 03:15 PM
Mar 2013

those that are suspicious of his relationship with Islam - there are plenty of morons in the country who not only believe he himself is Muslim but also believe he's too cozy with the Muslim world at the expense of Israel (I know you aren't unaware of all this). Any demonstration against him by Muslims will make his poll numbers rise.

Did you honestly think I'd be afraid to spell that out?

azurnoir

(45,850 posts)
10. umm if the last 4 years haven't "helped" with the 'belief'
Tue Mar 12, 2013, 03:18 PM
Mar 2013

that the POTUS is "too cozy" with Muslims or himself a Muslim I really do not see how a single demonstration will do much either, unless you are echoing some belief of your own here?

 

leftynyc

(26,060 posts)
11. I'm already a big supporter of Pres Obama
Tue Mar 12, 2013, 03:26 PM
Mar 2013

and think he handles the I/P question just fine so far. But, yes, a high profile demonstration while he's in the Holy Land will make a splash - you can count on it.

azurnoir

(45,850 posts)
12. with who exactly? if his actions wrt Israel in the UNSC not to mention
Tue Mar 12, 2013, 03:29 PM
Mar 2013

finally getting OBL then a simple demonstration in the West Bank will help?

 

leftynyc

(26,060 posts)
13. Are you purposefully misunderstanding?
Tue Mar 12, 2013, 03:39 PM
Mar 2013

Many, many, many Americans are very suspicious of the Muslim world - between 9/11 and the daily stories about the treatment of women, gays, Christians, the reputation is very tarnished. For those who have any suspicion whatsoever about Pres Obama's feelings about Israel, any high profile demonstration (and with the media, anything that happens will be high profile) will only help him with Americans. All the drama with Bibi will be forgotten in a heartbeat if the visual is a bunch of angry Muslims screaming their hate for the US and President Obama. Is that clear enough?

azurnoir

(45,850 posts)
14. no I am not however those that still embrace those beliefs IMO will hardly be swayed
Tue Mar 12, 2013, 05:03 PM
Mar 2013

by a simple demonstration, and shortly before the election we saw a "bunch of angry Muslims" screaming their hatred for the POTUS and America, now if you think what will be if it even happens a minor demonstration in the West Bank will change the minds of the folloowers of the likes Orly of Taitz IMO your mistaken
there are IMO 2 things that could affect the 'hearts and minds' here first and foremost the releast of Jonathan Pollard which ain't happening if it did not during the campaign it will not now and the second is the complete and total cutting off of funding to the PA, that is not likely either as it was attempted once before and it was Israel that requested that at least some be reinstated

 

leftynyc

(26,060 posts)
15. You're thinking intellectually
Wed Mar 13, 2013, 05:25 AM
Mar 2013

And that's not what I'm talking about. When the visual is an angry mob - complete with effigy and burning flags, the visceral reaction will be to rally around the President. I'm not talking about birthers...they're beyond hope. I'm talking about middle of the road Democrats and independents who may not be sure about Pres Obama's feelings about Israel. I'm Jewish and I don't know one person personally who is calling for Pollard to be released.....I think he should spend the rest of his life behind bars and like you stated, cutting off aid will not happen.

I don't think voters were paying much attention to the Arab world and their demonstrations during the election season. The economy, supreme court and issues much closer to home decided it. This will be a here and now news story complete with video. Much different.

azurnoir

(45,850 posts)
20. well of course I am and to be honest
Wed Mar 13, 2013, 08:24 AM
Mar 2013

I haven't indulged myself with fantasies of " an angry mob - complete with effigy and burning flags, the visceral reaction will be to rally around the President." either, however the sort you seem to be talking about will not be much swayed by that either, unless you think the happenings around 9/11/12 actually helped the POTUS get re-elected, myself I do not think they much effect either way, he wa going to win anyway. Now as to the sort we're discussing here IMO they are more likely to be giving themselves a self satisfied pat on the back, and turn to each other saying "serves him right and they're his own folks too" or some such

now the only way this makes sense i if your really talking about progressives who are ProPalestinian is that the case? I've avoided asking you this

 

leftynyc

(26,060 posts)
21. I don't understand your question
Wed Mar 13, 2013, 09:03 AM
Mar 2013

I'm not separating progressives from everyone else and like I said, the birthers dont count because they're beyond hope. I'm talking about the 80% of Americans who rally around a President when it appears "outsiders" are attacking our ways. It's why Bush got elected in 2004. I don't think you appreciate how 9/11/01 effected the American psyche - an attack on our soil killing thousands (last time a large scale attack on American soil was Pearl Harbor). It very quickly spiraled out of control. I think you totally overestimate the pro-Palestinian numbers in the US. The numbers just aren't there and this board is in no way indicative of the larger US population.

azurnoir

(45,850 posts)
23. oh I 'appreciate' how 9/11/01 was and still is being used to influenece Americans
Wed Mar 13, 2013, 03:47 PM
Mar 2013

and no I do not over estimate anything and I am glad you you said this

The numbers just aren't there and this board is in no way indicative of the larger US population.


but you can and are most welcome to keep on going along this line of thought though but make no mistake I do not under or over estimate anything

azurnoir

(45,850 posts)
32. nope you stated I over estimated the support Palestinians have in the US
Wed Mar 13, 2013, 04:18 PM
Mar 2013

and I underestimated how 9/11 affected "the American psyche" I said I did not over or under estimate anything
what is it you can not make sense of? I was quite plain

and you quip about DUers I said you go on with if you wished

 

leftynyc

(26,060 posts)
22. There is no fantasy involved
Wed Mar 13, 2013, 09:06 AM
Mar 2013

in the angry mob description in my post. You may not want to acknowledge it but I can post video after video of the last 10 years that show exactly that and when people are already inclined to believe a stereotype, it doesn't take much. I'm also not sure what happenings on 9/11/12 you're referring to. Benghazi?

 

leftynyc

(26,060 posts)
28. Perhaps you're right
Wed Mar 13, 2013, 04:10 PM
Mar 2013

but what difference does it make? It is what it is. Calling them bigots isn't going to change a thing.

azurnoir

(45,850 posts)
34. Look lets cut to the chase
Wed Mar 13, 2013, 04:32 PM
Mar 2013

you contended that angry Arab (Palestinian) mobs would somehow help Obama , me I think they won't make much difference either way those who still after 4 nyears believe he's Muslim or what ever are not going to be much influenced by this either, on the larger picture there are domestic issues that will garner far more attention and rightfully so things like chained CPI which will negatively impact those dependent on Social Security as their primary income, the use of drones, the sequester .........
it is these things that most people pay attention to, not what goes on in the ME, that's a sideshow of sorts

perhaps it is our different perspectives your in NYC at least according to your user name , I'm in MN and most folks in my part of the country just really are not concerned one way or the other, if asked "do you support Israel" they will reflexively answer yes of course but question them about the I/P situation and they will most likely tell you :those people have been fighting each other since the Bible" with a

 

leftynyc

(26,060 posts)
35. Like I said upthread
Wed Mar 13, 2013, 04:46 PM
Mar 2013

I'm not talking about the birthers, or the clowns who are convinced Pres Obama is a Muslim....lost causes and wouldn't approve of anything he did. But they're (at most) 20% of the population. The other 80% can be swayed on certain issues but because of 9/11 and the bad visuals that are pretty ubiquitous, those attitudes will be much harder to change. People pay much more attention to foreign policy when the President is abroad.

I do suspect our perspectives are different and yes, I'm from NY - work in Manhattan and live in a surrounding suburb.

Violet_Crumble

(35,977 posts)
16. 'Very suspicious' = 'ignorant bigotry'
Wed Mar 13, 2013, 07:08 AM
Mar 2013

Educating those many, many, many Americans that ugly stereotypes and broadbrush smears aimed at Muslims are every bit as much bigotry as if they're aimed at Jews would be a good first step to remove that 'very suspicious' thing

 

leftynyc

(26,060 posts)
17. I very much agree
Wed Mar 13, 2013, 07:39 AM
Mar 2013

but after watching the last election you must know we have a whole lot of ignorant and stupid in this very large country and a whole lot of that will be on display this weekend at CPAC. I'm just stating what is the situation right now.

Violet_Crumble

(35,977 posts)
18. Watching the lead-up to the last election was scary....
Wed Mar 13, 2013, 07:49 AM
Mar 2013

It did look for a while there like stupidity might reign with Romney. I remember reading something on Facebook from someone in Europe who said watching the US election was like watching a horror movie where yr screaming at the person not to go down those dark stairs into the creepy looking basement coz there's a monster there that'll kill them, only to watch them keep on going down those stairs. That's what it felt like for me until things came good early on in the vote counting and I breathed a huge sigh of relief...

 

leftynyc

(26,060 posts)
19. LOL - that's a great metaphor
Wed Mar 13, 2013, 07:57 AM
Mar 2013

but I was watching Nate Silver and was cautiously optimistic for much of the election season. I was concerned after the first debate but that dissipated after I saw it didn't move the swing state polls at all. But after the 2000 vote, I also held my breath until they actually called Ohio for Pres Obama....after which I immediately turned on fox and watched the rove meltdown in real time - that was fun.

 

leftynyc

(26,060 posts)
26. I didn't say I wanted to post
Wed Mar 13, 2013, 04:09 PM
Mar 2013

them but if you want to doubt they exist, I'm sure it will take me all of 2 minutes to find a dozen.

 

leftynyc

(26,060 posts)
29. If you have an accusation to make
Wed Mar 13, 2013, 04:12 PM
Mar 2013

man/woman up and make it already cuz your cutsie stuff is getting tiring.

Jefferson23

(30,099 posts)
31. Palestinian Authority officials lower expectations of Obama visit
Wed Mar 13, 2013, 04:18 PM
Mar 2013

Palestinians say U.S. administration reps told them president was coming just 'to listen'; Abbas visits Putin Thursday, not coincidentally.

By Jack Khoury | Mar.13, 2013 | 9:00 PM |

The Palestinians have low expectations from U.S. President Barack Obama’s visit because the American officials in charge of coordinating the visit have told Palestinian Authority officials not to anticipate any breakthroughs, saying he was coming just “to listen,” according to a Palestinian source.

“We don’t know what the Americans still haven’t heard about this issue, since things have been laid on the table time after time,” the source said. “If there’s real intent to resolve things, the Americans don’t need any more information from the Palestinians.”

On Wednesday, the Palestinians were informed that Obama plans to visit the Church of the Nativity in Bethlehem and not make do with just a visit to Ramallah, as was originally planned.

Palestinian officials say the relative apathy the Palestinians have exhibited toward Obama’s visit may explain why Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas traveled to Moscow on Wednesday to meet with Russian President Vladimir Putin on Thursday.

According to a Kremlin announcement, Abbas and Putin will discuss bilateral cooperation as well as the Palestinian position on returning to negotiations with Israel. PA sources noted that this will be the first meeting between Putin and Abbas since the recognition of Palestine as a non-member observer state by the UN General Assembly in November.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/palestinian-authority-officials-lower-expectations-of-obama-visit-1.509184

 

oberliner

(58,724 posts)
36. When were the expectations otherwise?
Wed Mar 13, 2013, 05:49 PM
Mar 2013

From the beginning, this is what Obama said his plan was for the visit.

Jefferson23

(30,099 posts)
37. I don't think they were expecting anything much when it was first announced.
Wed Mar 13, 2013, 06:35 PM
Mar 2013

Only difference I see is he reiterated his thoughts while combining the news
he met with Putin.

*on edit for clarity.

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