And, when did they stop firing mortars and rockets into Israel? Terror attacks against Israel are nearly a daily occurrence. It may have something to do with the encouragement to commit acts of terror on the TV programs that they watch.

own display of military impotence.

... Have killed 16 Israelis (civilians and children) and 6 Palestinians (including children) and maimed and wounded hundreds more.

Probably killed more Palestinian militants building them in auto shops, dropping them during transport in the back of old pickup trucks, and trying to set them off than Israeli farmers who might be randomly standing in the wrong place a few miles away when they land (assuming the thing even gets into the air without killing the launching crew).

They're bottle rockets -- a display of how unsymmetrical and disadvantaged the Palestinians really are -- not militarily effective.

The basic hand grenade (M67) has 6.5 ounces of explosive fill. It is great for killing everyone in a small bunker or room. It can blow up cars. It has a lethal radius of 5 meters a casualty producing radius of 15 meters and fragments can disperse as far as 230 meters.

The Qassam III (current production) which you call a bottle rocket, carries 22 to 44 pounds/352-704 ounces of explosive in its warhead (depends on source quoted).

They are less than effective due to their lack of guidance systems, poor quality control, and operator ineptitude. However, they are more than 50X the explosive power of a pipe bomb or grenade.

Militarily ineffective, unless thrown into a confined room.

I doubt you'd be as dismissive and insensitive as you are if you and your closest family and friends were under attack for years, getting used to thousands of these harmless toys...

...with those bottle rockets and mortars. Encouraging other Israelis to hatred and incitement, rewarding terror operations, etc.

But when the Palestinians do it, you're not outraged - correct?

In addition, if the walls kept the Israelis out of Gaza and the West Bank, as well as vis-a-versa, I'd be all in favor of them.

I really don't think one form of killing, just because it's a "smart bomb" dropped from an F-16, is really any smarter than the other - and, vis-a-versa.

The only thing that' symmetrical about war is stupidity.

...that serves no military purpose, rather than use more advanced weaponry that has been proven to minimize Palestinian civilian casualties.

Words fail.

More bang for the U.S. Aid Dollar? Would I be wrong?

I'd actually prefer both sides were fighting the next war with sticks and stones, or better not at all.

When Israel's responses to Palestinian bottle rockets are proportionate, I'll agree they're justified. Similarly, when Israel dumps all its nukes into the Dead Sea (well, not literally) then I'll consider Iran's nuclear program to be an aggressive act.

And yes, I prefer ordinance that helps kill the most bad guys with as few civilian casualties as possible.

They're futility weapons - just displays of impotence. Being such a humanitarian, concerned about civilian casualties, I'm surprised you don't like them. Would you prefer that they use Israeli arms - you, know the "ethical", "humanitarian" munitions used by the IDF?

In such a disproportionate conflict, one should prefer the ordinance that kills the fewest people on both sides.

Last edited Thu Feb 23, 2012, 11:05 PM - Edit history (1)

Now compare that to your "bottle rockets" of RPGs and Qassam rockets.

or DC along with parts of the states of Maryland, Virginia and Delaware.

Not an appropriate use, in any case.

Why even suggest that the only tool palestinians have is rocks? Why not downgrade the "rocks" to minute particles are conjoined sand. Doesn't that sound better? I can read the headline now: "Bloodthirsty joos arrest sand throwing Arab peace protesters".

Don't like the term, "Bottle rocket"? Okay, maybe, pictures of missiles will work for you:

Palestinian "missile" forces:



Devastation wrought by Qassam "missile" attack:



Missile-throwing Arab:

Palestinian Missile Forces



Devastation wrought by Qassam Missile Strike





Missile-throwing arab:

I hope you don't believe that photo set does anything more that reemphasize my point that the forces and weapons are so disproportionate that it's laughable to call it a war. Except that there are people who get hurt and killed on both sides (well, mostly Palestinians) and that is an avoidable tragedy we should all be working to stop.

this kind of terrorism from say, Mexico, before it flattened Mexico city.

It's why the Native Americans were practically obliterated.

While your "bottle rockets" meme is total nonsense, how do you justify the Grads/Katyushas, as firecrackers?

They seem to provoke which is entirely disproportionate to their effect. So is the military response by the IDF also disproportionate - which is the point.

they do not love their oppressors, a double standard if ever there was

As to your comment, I'm sure there are many Israelis who would say Palestine's supporters are obsessed with proving how horrible the Israelis are, due to the fact they don't love those who hate Jews and want them all dead.

so you predictably proclaim deflection with the also predictable they want to kill all the Jews hyperbole for thrown in for good measure, any PMW vids for us today, I can hardly wait

Do you acknowledge that's happening?

Is it a significant problem in your view?

Do you merely disagree with it, or are you - as a progressive antiracist - offended and disgusted by it?

==========

That kind of hate and incitement to kill Jews existed long before Palestinians were oppressed by Israelis. In fact, before there was a Jewish state at all.

I'm pretty sure you can't acknowledge that either b/c it's a narrative killer and toxic to the cause (revolution).

Last edited Thu Feb 23, 2012, 03:43 PM - Edit history (1)

and no matter how much obsessively collected antiPalestinian propaganda you and and the groups you support obsessively collect you can not get around that; so is the stuff you post supposed to justify Israel's actions or what? It seems strange that you claim to so support a two state solution but yet demonize Palestinians every chance you get, even to the point of claiming that he PA (the body with whom Israel is negotiating) is genocidal

I acknowledge what is happening but what you refuse to acknowledge or even admit is that it does not happen in a vacuum, one can only assume you believe the demolitions Israel carries out in Silwan are justified as you never mention them or is this simply one more attempt at distraction>

In my book both actions are wrong how about yours shira any condemnation for Israel demolishing most recently a community center that catered to Palestinian women and youth ?

...is just as bad as occupation/settler policy in the W.Bank and Gaza. The hate and incitement is due to Israeli actions in your opinion.

Well at least that's something, I guess. Pathetic, but something nonetheless.



To answer you, yes I'm for 2 states, but what kind of 2 state solution are you promoting in which that kind of Palestinian hatred and incitement to genocide continues to be promoted, sponsored, encouraged, and rewarded by the PA and Hamas? I'd like a real answer to that one.

I believe all hate incitement needs to be dealt with before any 2 state settlement. And no, it's not demonizing Palestinians by bringing up all that genocidal, antisemitic, neo-nazi style rhetoric. No more than legit criticism against Israel and some of its Arab hating settlers is demonization.

And no, I don't believe PMW style Palestinian hate and incitement is due to Israeli policy, since it existed well before 1948. I think it's pathetic that you place the blame for such genocidal Jew hatred on Jews themselves.

As to my own criticism and condemnation of Israeli policies, I don't have any problem condemning any of their immoral, unjust, or illegal actions. I support real liberals who advocate on behalf of both Israelis and Palestinians and fight against that. It appears that you, OTOH, either fear criticizing Palestinians or you're not at all bothered by what they do (like in the PMW videos).

Can you imagine that PMW crap happening in reverse, with Israelis guilty of all that? And the pro-Israel crowd here refusing to condemn it, nor show any disgust and outrage? Can you imagine them making excuses for it? No, I can't either. Now imagine how you guys look to us when none of that disturbs you.

Last edited Thu Feb 23, 2012, 05:31 PM - Edit history (1)

do you criticize Israel's demoltions in Silwan? or is that one of the things you do not think wrong

and this little gem

"Can you imagine that PMW crap happening in reverse, with Israelis guilty of all that? And the pro-Israel crowd here refusing to condemn it, nor show any disgust and outrage? Can you imagine them making excuses for it? No, I can't either. Now imagine how you guys look to us when none of that disturbs you"

I can imagine, your doing it right now aren't you? ever wonder why Palestinians aren't collecting propaganda against Israel in the same obsessive manner? could it be because everyday reality speaks for itself?

You can't condemn it. The worst, most disgusting brand of anti-Jew genocidal rhetoric, and words fail you. It's okay, you're not alone as all your progressive anti-racist friends prefer ignoring it too.

As to your question, I don't know enough about the Silwan demolitions to really comment. I see there's a lot of anti-Israel propaganda about it, but I'm having a difficult time finding Israel responding to the allegations. Usually when there's something bad going on like this in other nations, both sides of the issue are represented. It's only fair, and it's the very least we should expect from journalists and NGO's.

One thing I found from jpost is that a tent and small stable were demolished outside the community center...
http://www.jpost.com/NationalNews/Article.aspx?id=257700

Are we all supposed to be disturbed about that? Just asking...

as to your little jpost article of course Israel would never ever destroy anything that had value to Palestinians in Silwan or anywhere else else we all know that don't we I mean there are videos to prove otherwise are there?

...or that a tent in front of it was demolished?

It appears that stories claiming the community center was demolished are false. It was a tent in front, right?

Simple question. Please answer with a yes or no.

=======

It's not just the JPost claiming it was a tent. Here's a pro-Palestinian source...
http://www.mecaforpeace.org/news/statement-demolition-silwan-madaa-silwan-creative-center

can you say the same? oh wait according to you it was only a tent

Last edited Fri Feb 24, 2012, 11:40 AM - Edit history (1)

...disturbed with demolitions in Silwan or area C than you are with the content in PMW videos. I mean, you blast PMW every time the source is used here and you've never once shown how concerned, disgusted, or disturbed you are with the content. Never. Not even once before that last post.

I asked a simple yes/no question and once again you failed to answer.

but once again not that's the one you wanted/needed, so once again you'll claim the question was not answered, its ok par for the courser and all

whether its a really small bullet, a 60mm mortar, a kassam, an anti take missile, sniper fire, military grad rocket or the homemade variety or an ied...

all randomlly fired, almost daily all targeting israelis...their constant presence has caused israel to build radar stations, bomb shelters, anti rocket defenses through out the south and nearing middle Israel.

part of the lack of success is the constant pressure on them "freedom fighters" as the load up their rockets, prepare their mortars and attempt to plant an IED...the IDF has to spend enormous resources watching and attacking.

your excuses, while not surprising, are simply excuses for attempted murder and terrorism....

which features a Mickey Mouse-type character teaching the little ones to 'kill Jews'.