But charity begins at home. Perhaps the Israeli government could be charitable to the Palestinians and remove some illegals settlers from out of the West Bank?

How about this thread?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/113454937

The P bit's missing. Is there some reason you don't like posting stuff like this in other places, like GD?

unfortunately we don't hear much about them.

no comment.

What is even more revolting is the USA funding the victimizers and turning a blind eye to its own complicity in the act.


But thanks for the fake outrage.

I understand that for one to try to comment on a bankrupt form of apartheid it will open them up to a lot of reality they probably don't to admit to.

Israel is synonymous with "MUGGER, RAPIST , APARTIED"

Thank you...You made your pov crystal clear.

But if you want to label them as a mugger rapist then you are free to do so.

.

Everyone knows the Jews are indigenous to the land, not colonialists.

But here's a question for you as you continue to derail the thread here. Let's see if you're up to answering:

Do you really believe Jews in Jerusalem, Hebron, and other parts of historical Judea/Samaria are foreign invaders, no different than European colonialists in Africa with absolutely no historical, religious, or cultural ties there?

Desmond Tutu's said it. So has Jimmy Carter....

Israeli settlers in Hebron and other illegal settlements in the West Bank are foreign invaders and the Israeli govt needs to move them back to Israel so they'll stop terrorising the local population.

For someone who claims not to support the settlers, you sure do put up arguments that they have every right to settle in the West Bank on a regular basis...

....it's not an actual fact that Israel is apartheid. It's an opinion, politically motivated. Jimmy Carter says apartheid is a predictor, not that Israel is apartheid so you're wrong.

Jews have lived in Jerusalem and Hebron for thousands of years, but because they were ethnically cleansed in 1948 they magically became foreign invaders just 19 years later? I find that fascinating. Does the same apply to Palestinians waiting on their right to return? Are they and their children aspiring foreign invaders since they've been out of the country more than 19 years? Just checking for consistency...

I've got no idea why you brought him up, except for he died a few weeks ago and was the topic of a lot of discussion. If he didn't say something, it doesn't mean it's not an actual fact that Israel is apartheid. Desmond Tutu said it is, Jimmy Carter also said its policies towards the Palestinians in the occupied territories are apartheid, and I agree with that. I find it telling that you go into hysterics and accuse people of hate when they point out there is an apartheid-style system in the West Bank, yet you fling around the apartheid label freely at a whole bunch of other states, and don't hold Israel to the same standard as any other state....

Did I miss the bit where the fanatical extremist settlers terrorising the Palestinian population in Hebron are direct descendants of victims of the Hebron massacre? I think if yr claiming that, it's just another thing you've got totally wrong...



Last time I checked, Palestinians hadn't taken up residence in Ashdod and weren't terrorising and attacking the Israeli population, kicking them out of their homes and claiming Ashdod as part of Palestine. What flimsy security forces the PA has isn't in Israel protecting what I'd call extremist settlers if the situation were reversed. So, yr inventing a situation that just doesn't exist.



You might like to look at yr own lack of consistency. You support the fanatical settlers in Hebron, claiming they have some 'right of return', yet scream blue murder, are totally opposed to Right of Return for Palestinian refugees, and accuse anyone who supports it of wanting to destroy Israel. So my question is why when it comes to the extremist settlers you support right of return for them, but not when it comes to Palestinian refugees who are the direct descendants of the original refugees?

I've written many times I support a RoR for the original Palestinian refugees. I'm all for $$$ compensation if not physical return.

Do u believe Jews who've lived in Judea/Samaria for over 3000 years are colonists and invaders?

In fact, he has said the exact opposite.

To wit:

"I know that Israel is a wonderful democracy with equal treatment of all citizens whether Arab or Jew. And so I very carefully avoided talking about anything inside Israel..."

http://www.haaretz.com/news/jimmy-carter-israel-s-apartheid-policies-worse-than-south-africa-s-1.206865


Nice try, but you really have to stop phoning it in.

In his book 'Palestine: Peace Not Apartheid', page 189 he says:

Israel controls the West Bank and the apartheid style system it set up there. Israel is responsible for that. So, saying Israel practises or is an apartheid state isn't an unreasonable thing to think.

And he went out of his way to clarify that for people who said exactly what you have written here.

Regarding the use of the word "Apartheid" in the title of his book:

"It's not Israel. The book has nothing to do with what's going on inside Israel which is a wonderful democracy, you know, where everyone has guaranteed equal rights and where, under the law, Arabs and Jews who are Israelis have the same privileges about Israel. That's been most of the controversy because people assume it's about Israel. It's not.

"I've never alleged that the framework of apartheid existed within Israel at all, and that what does exist in the West Bank is based on trying to take Palestinian land and not on racism. So it was a very clear distinction."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine:_Peace_Not_Apartheid

Last edited Thu Jan 2, 2014, 12:14 AM - Edit history (1)

The answer is... illegal Israeli settlers are illegal Israeli settlers and are seen that way by the international community; regardless of whether Jews lived in the area a few thousand of years ago. To try and populate the West Bank with 500+ thousand illegal Israeli settlers in what is recognized as a Palestinian land is nothing less than colonization.

Thanks for bringing in Nelson Mandela. Yes, we all know that is the shtick of the day since you've been flogging that up and down I/P for some time now.

And I didn't say I support settlers moving into certain areas of the W.Bank. The areas around the line will go to Israel in any reasonable deal involving land swaps. So at this point, live and let live. I'm totally opposed to settlers in outlying areas that should become part of a Palestinian state. Is that clear enough for you?

Notice how Pelsar and I answer your questions while you deflect?

Oh, I guess that they are just visitors.

And they'll just up and leave from the heart of the West Bank due to good conscience.


You're priceless for comedic value alone, shira.


I'll miss you.

What they were saying was that pointing out some good things about someone or something that's done some really bad things doesn't mean that the good stuff means that the bad should be ignored...

And for the record, I found yr post where you claimed another kristlnacht was imminent, this time in the US to be incredibly disgusting and revolting...

You will do nothing to oppose such a state from being created, just as you do nothing now to oppose horrific Hamas & PA policy in the territories against the Palestinians they victimize there. It's comical how you bash Israel for being apartheid while your support for a fascist theocratic Palestine is nearly absolute. Abbas has even admitted no Jews will be allowed in a future Palestine, so Palestine will be an apartheid state that u support. Not to mention your silence on the apartheid conditions in Lebanon vs. Palestinians that you BDS types tacitly support as well. Goes to show that you support far worse than what you accuse your opponents of...



I'm wondering if you think Gaza or its leaders are muggers and rapists? How about the PLO leadership in the W.Bank? Do you see them as racists, apartheidists, etc.?

I'm not expecting a genuine answer, but I'm always open to being surprised...

...as Palestine will surely be is in fact supporting a fascist state.

But to answer your specific question, the answer is no. Sharia courts do not make for a fascist state as the US and UK have sharia courts. The difference is that those courts are subordinate to US/UK law.

Because they're Arab and predominantly Muslim, there's absolutely no possibility at all in yr mind that the Palestinian people could govern themselves in a democratic and non-secular fashion. That's a great load of faith you place in people there...

There's Sharia law in Israel when it comes to civil matters for Muslims, and I suspect just as with the rabbinical courts, they are the law when it comes to civil matters.

Gaza is fascist under Hamas. The PLO is fascist as well.

Do u disagree? I have no reason to believe Palestine will be any different. And according to polling, about 90% of Palestinians prefer to live under sharia law, which doesn't bode well for those who believe Palestinians prefer to live in a secular western style democracy.

being accused of supporting fascism?

Either you're for or against, simple question.

I realize your handlers haven't prepared you for this particular question, but do try responding honestly.

of supporting fascism when in fact they are supporting Palestinian independence from Israeli rule?

If that is all you have left I'd say your bag of tricks is pretty much spent.

I'm not aware of any significant Palestinian movement that wants an independent, secular, western style, progressive democratic Palestine.

Are you?

When Palestine is created within a 2-state framework, it will be a fascist, theocratic, totalitarian, racist apartheid regime that will oppress women, gays, and christians. No better than Egypt, Jordan, or Syria.

You either support the creation of a Palestinian state like that, or you do not. So what's the answer?

If you prefer an independent and genuinely progressive Palestine, what are you and yours doing to ensure that kind of state is created? What have you and your fellow advocates and activists done for the past decade to oppose fascist rule there?

Also, I really wouldn't call others here supporters of fascists when they have made it abundantly clear that they do not support Hamas or Abbas.

That would be akin to me saying that you support Netanyahu since he is PM of Israel or that you support the illegal colonist settlers since they have no plans of leaving.

If you believe I'm using a crystal ball and don't know what a future Palestine would be like under Hamas/PLO rule, then what evidence do u have demonstrating that their rule will be significantly more progressive than that of Egypt, Jordan, or Syria? What are u and your fellow "humanitarians" doing to prevent such fascist rule from occurring?

Fascist rule is the norm in Gaza under Hamas, so what are u doing now to stop that?

then they must also support apartheid, colonialism and Beyamin Netanyahu's left gonad...


Or would that be the right gonad?

you're not going to get high off of it.

Very inspirational.


Innovation: Africa

Founded five years ago, this organization brings Israeli technology to African villages. It has helped out half a million Africans in Ethiopia, Tanzania, Malawi and Uganda. I:A was awarded Special Consultative Status to the United Nations Economic and Social Council and won the 2013 UN Innovation Award. They provide medical clinics with solar power and refrigeration for life-saving medicines and vaccines and their solar-powered water pumps provide over 20,000 liters of clean water a day.


Really beautiful .